dwp capital limit Benefits stopped and how to appeal

[melhunter]

Hello

 

Probably wont get anywhere but I must try.

 

I am a single mother of one boy from marriage. Partener has no contact n pays nothing. Son is in receipt of middle level dla.

 

Anyway I am expecting my second child in july. Partner and i split at xmas due to stresses of current situation and him not being able to handle my 13yr old.

 

BasicallyI was getting housing benefit and Income support etc. I am adopted and my birth mother gave a lump sum to pay for my son to have correct assesments and tuition etc back in 2007. She then decided to send me a cheque to cover fees monthly until this april when we would use the lump sum again. We have tried special schools etc and use lump for this.

 

Now im not overly savvy with money and simply put it in a savings account seperate from my own as it wasnt my money to spend. Although clearly it was in my name. I still dont know if I should put it in a trust fund or something or how these things work.

 

DWP interviewed me last Sept under caution.Terrified. Explained everything as best I could and was told to wait on desision. Well doesnt take a genius to suss they will say im not entitled.

 

I cancelled all benefits as my partner who works full time asked me to move in with him and as my benefits had also been frozen i could not pay rent. I didnt want debts to get worse.

 

DWP eventually wrote in Jan saying i owe thousands and i mean thousands!!!! Income support council tax housing benefit over 4 plus years! Due to the money my mother has supplied but if i could show evidence of it being used for the ppurpose of his needs etc.

 

I did this but as you can imagin all to no avail. However I have written appealing saying again what the money was for and provided all receipts to show it has been used for the purposes it was ment. If I could spend it as I chose i wouldnt now be living in a room at my mothers with no income full stop and possible court and god forbid jail hanging over me!!

 

They are asking for more than i was even given due to the length of time i was given the money and even if it were a case of making repayments Ive nothing coming in apart frm my sons child benefit and dla I cant get job as im due and even temps wont take me on and once the baby is born wouldnt be able to get help with childcare as dwp say im not entitled. Im in a visious circle.

 

Does anyone know how i can best fight tis desision or if i should put money in a trust or such like.

 

The legl adviser i spoke with was not much help and happy to ask a fee and assume we put a guilty plea in never even suggested fighting the desision. But i guess this is the goverment we are dealing with and when they say your stuffed yor stuffed even if you shdnt be.

 

Terriffied my son and unborn will lose me or god know what.

My mom who who gave money wrote explaining it was only for the purpose of my sons education but nothing seems to matter to them.

Edited March 12, 2012 by honeybee13
Putting in some paragraphs for ease of reading.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm moving your thread to the benefits forum, where you should get some answers about your problem.

 

My best, HB

[LaughingGirl]

Bumping up, as you haven't had a response yet.

 

I'm sorry I can't help, but the benefits bods on here are really good - they should be able to offer you advice.

[flumps1976]

Unless you have any legal documents to state that the money was for your son and was paid to you to use for his needs then the capital will be treated as belonging to you. In hindsight it would have been better for you or your mother to open a trust fund for your son. Also the money that your mother paid to you (which was used to pay his fees) would be treated as an income again it would be different if you had legal documents to conform what the payments were to be used for.

Without the legal documents I'm afraid the decision will stand as you have already requested a reconsideration and appeal.

The problem that you could encounter if you now transfer this capital into a trust fund for your child is that the benefits decision makers could decide that you have deliberately deprived yourself of the capital and transferred it into your sons name in order to be able to claim benefits in your own right. If that decision is/was made then you would still technically be treated as having that capital until a calculation that they calculate in the office shows when you would technically be back under the capital rules which would allow you to receive benefits again in your own right. This calculation is complicated and I haven't had to do that for many years so could not even begin to give you an idea of how long it could be before you could reclaim and receive IS in your own right sorry.

[feelingsad]

When I claimed benefits there was a question on the form "does anyone else pay anything for your child eg education etc" and I declared that a children's charity was paying for my dd's school fees (specialist disability school) and they paid direct and I never received or saw the money. This was looked into fully and it was accepted in the end but I know that all income even if you don't receive it needs to be declared. As your child's school fees unless paid directly by the child's father (which would be child maintenance which would be ok) is income of yours unfortunately. Ideally your mother should have paid the school fees directly and kept the money herself and then you should have declared what was happening and then maybe you would have been ok. Though maybe I was ok as it was a children's charity paying rather than a relative, I have no idea why that was ok at the time. Either way, I declared it at the time. I'm sory you are going through this, it sounds a nightmare.

[melhunter]

Unless you have any legal documents to state that the money was for your son and was paid to you to use for his needs then the capital will be treated as belonging to you. In hindsight it would have been better for you or your mother to open a trust fund for your son. Also the money that your mother paid to you (which was used to pay his fees) would be treated as an income again it would be different if you had legal documents to conform what the payments were to be used for.

Without the legal documents I'm afraid the decision will stand as you have already requested a reconsideration and appeal.

The problem that you could encounter if you now transfer this capital into a trust fund for your child is that the benefits decision makers could decide that you have deliberately deprived yourself of the capital and transferred it into your sons name in order to be able to claim benefits in your own right. If that decision is/was made then you would still technically be treated as having that capital until a calculation that they calculate in the office shows when you would technically be back under the capital rules which would allow you to receive benefits again in your own right. This calculation is complicated and I haven't had to do that for many years so could not even begin to give you an idea of how long it could be before you could reclaim and receive IS in your own right sorry.

 

Thanks for advise. Im not looking to claim any benefits anain.

What legal document should I have gotten?

[melhunter]

When I claimed benefits there was a question on the form "does anyone else pay anything for your child eg education etc" and I declared that a children's charity was paying for my dd's school fees (specialist disability school) and they paid direct and I never received or saw the money. This was looked into fully and it was accepted in the end but I know that all income even if you don't receive it needs to be declared. As your child's school fees unless paid directly by the child's father (which would be child maintenance which would be ok) is income of yours unfortunately. Ideally your mother should have paid the school fees directly and kept the money herself and then you should have declared what was happening and then maybe you would have been ok. Though maybe I was ok as it was a children's charity paying rather than a relative, I have no idea why that was ok at the time. Either way, I declared it at the time. I'm sory you are going through this, it sounds a nightmare.

 

Thanks. Perhaps formd have changed. Still I didnt have it when i initially claimed but i understand wht you mean. Just update forms asking if there were any changes in my circumstances. As far as i was concerned no. Sigh. Now the council tax are asking to be repaid dispite it all being appealed. Seems a tad sily to proceed when appeal hasnt been dealt with but what do i dolong term no income no home no belongings for baliffs to reclaim. I dont want to be jailed ive children to think of and it just costd the tax payer even more eek.

[Nystagmite]

You won't go to prison.

[melhunter]

You won't go to prison.

 

Thank you

I am not great at math but all benefits over 4yrs is around 70,000!!! Ive nothing to have seized by baliffs and no means to pay if after appeal they still rule against me and council tax say baliffs will be instructed dispite ongoing appeal. Something here doent seem right. Baliffs dont bother me as I have nothing to take however the distress it may cause my mother does.

[melhunter]

I have contacted my local MP over this also but hes away temporaly. What i dont get is how council tax think they can send in baliffs when its still under appeal. Ok in my situation theres nothing to take so stuff em but if i did n it was sold them appeal ruled in my favour i would have lost my stuff. Seems mad n out of order i suppose baliffs hold it till appeals decided. But its so frustrating typical when its linked to goverment. They (not baliffs) just storm on regardless

I have my moments where i just say stuff it all Im not going to let some stupid system stress my unborn child and family making us ill because the precious goverment scheme cant see when its being silly.

[SKJP]

I am not great at math but all benefits over 4yrs is around 70,000!!!

 

 

Even so, it doesn't necessarily mean that prison is the first or only option, by any means at all. Loads of different factors are taken into account when sentencing (if it gets that far!), and factors in your favour include 1) a 'non-greedy' motive (i.e. you used this money to pay for a special school! Had you bought a Ferrari, things would be much different) and 2) your household circumstances (you are, evidently, the mother of a disabled child).

 

Neither of those factors are 'get out of jail free' cards by any means at all, but they will go a long way, if you found yourself convicted of an offence.

 

RE: Baillifs, etc...are you in a position to repay anything at all? You'd never be expected to repay overpayments of this size in one go. Nevertheless, the authorities may try to throw their weight around with scary letters and such. Making even 'token' payments can also go a long way. However, I understand it's still under appeal. The CAB may be able to help with the financial/debt collection side of things, nevertheless.

 

Just remember, too, that your (in)ability to pay has nothing to do with court sentencing (again, if it gets that far!!).

[Darfyddi]

I am going through similar although no where near the same figures. From previouscourt appearances and DWP appeals I know that you can win some leniency providing youremain polite and do EVERYTHING you can to prove yourself. Although you may nothave any legal contract explaining the use of the money you do have allthe receipts. Given that your son is also in receipt of DLA (which is to pay forthe things you are claiming your mum paid for) you will also have to prove thathis DLA is not enough to cover the day to day essentials (extra clothing,washing, travel, damages, specialised equipment etc.) as well as the school fees. If youare missing any receipt then you must phone then write to that school/companyand request a copy of the receipt for the given date - don't forget to look atyour bank/credit card statements to see where large sums of money get paid toofor your son too.

I used The Law Centre for my last appeal and am using themfor my current appeal on behalf of my wife and another potential appeal after weget a response back from a request for DWP to look at the decision they havejust made over my wife’s capital. Something I think DWP has done to my wife is to have doubled and trippled the amounts my wife acctually has. I.e. my wife recieved £3,000 Student loan/grant into her current account and on the same day transfers it to her saving account they then see it as £6,000 savings as there was definately £3,000 in each account at some point in time, albiet different point of time. This is a where you needed to have asked for a written statement of the reasons of their decision within 30 days of the original letter so you got the information they used. You should still receive this as part of the appeal process. Even if you had about £16,000 savings it will help if you double check the DWP calculations because if they tell the court you had £32,000 savings you don't stand much chance of being listened too. The way you have worded your posts though indicate you me that you had much more money then just the school fees per term as you said "lump sum" that the pays for the school if it was just enough each year to cover it then you might be ok(ish) but it sounds to me like you had enough to cover him for many years? Are you able to tell us the sort of sum that you had at the peak in your savings?

Regarding the council tax bailiff company then (if they are like ours) youwould only have to mention their name to your local CAB and they will tell youto ignore them. Phone the council direct and explain that you are a.) Appealing,2.) Skint, 3.) Preggers, 4.) Caring for a disabled child, 5.) Single mum 6.) Withouta paid job 7.) Homeless.

In the past I have spoken to the council and explained that I want to pay myarrears but I wanted to pay the council direct and not the bailiffs (Bristow& Sutor in my case) purely on the grounds that the bailiffs were putting oncharges that I couldn't see a reason for and solely from that one phone call Ihad the bailiff charges removed and paid the council in small instalments withnever hearing from the bailiffs again. You should speak to CAB regarding thecouncil tax as well - they would be able to help in regards to putting the 7points I mentioned above to them and also ask for the same information to beput to whoever housing benefit was paid to.

Although the comment about moving your money into your son's account mightbe seen as deliberately reducing your capitol I should think that you could getadvice about paying it back to the same account it came from, fromyour mum. If this is possible then you could talk about the other suggestion ofa trust fund in your child's name but again I would seek advice on how this mayaffect you.

Are you saying that you current situation right now is that you are stillsingle, at your mums home and not receiving any benefits other than your son'sDLA? Do you receive Child Tax Credits or Child Benefit? And do you mind measking why you are not on income support anymore (i.e. are you not allowed toclaim because of alleged fraud or do you still have over £16,000 capitol?)