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    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .. get a CCA Request running to the claimant . https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/ .. Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed . get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] ... https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ . .use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt or Util debt]  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ on BOTH type your name ONLY Do Not sign anything .do not ever use or give an email . you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork  you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count] ..............  
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre, Northampton MCOL Northampton N1 ? Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ? New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK ? If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS) Name of the Claimant ? CA Auto Finance UK Limited How many defendant's  joint or self ? One (self) Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 02 May 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  Unpaid car loan By an agreement in writing dated 26 November 2015 and made between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Claimant loaned the Defendant a sum of money. The agreement was Regulated. The Defendant failed to make payment of the sums due and the Agreement was terminated by the Claimant. On the 7 February 2019 the balance due from the Defendant was £8,196,38. The Defendant has paid £0.00.                                                             THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS  1. £8,196,38 2. Contractual interest to the date hereof £0.00 3. Further interest at 10.70 per annum (£0.00) per day until judgement or sooner payment. 4. Costs to be assessed. CLAIMANTS CLAIM £8,196.38                                                                                                                                            OUR REF HXC/M0052854                                                                                                                                                DIRECT LINE 01293 596922                      What is the total value of the claim? £8751.38 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In Branch Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Creditor was FCA Automotive Services UK Limited Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No and No Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No Why did you cease payments? Unaffordable What was the date of your last payment? Feb 28 2018 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes (irresponsible lending and they did not supply all documents when CCA sent. The Terms and Conditions they sent as part of the request were different to the original Ts and Cs. Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   PRIVATE.pdf
    • Thank you. You contacted directly with the parcel broker so your best option is to proceed directly against them for breach of contract. I hope you have read enough to understand that you will not be able to rely on the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Do you understand why? Have Parcel to Go giving you a reason for declining reimbursement? Do you have anything in writing from your customer which shows that they did not refuse delivery and which identifies the actual circumstances of the situation?
    • Which Court have you received the claim from? CIVIL NATIONAL BUSINESS CENTRE, NORTHAMPTON Name of the Claimant? LOWELL PORTFOLIO LTD How many defendant's joint or self? SELF Date of issue – 03 MAY 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  1.THE CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF £6000 DUE TO THE DEFENDANT UNDER AN AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER ACT 1974 FOR A LLOYDS BANKING GROUP PLC ACCOUNT WITH AN ACCOUNT REFERENCE OF (ACCOUNT NO. 16 DIGITS LONG). 2.THE DEFENDANT FAILED TO MAINTAIN CONTRACTUAL PAYMENTS REQUIRED BY THE AGREEMENT AND A DEFAULT NOTICE WAS SERVED UNDER S.87(1) OF THE CONSUMER ACT 1974 WHICH HAS NOT BEEN COMPLIED WITH. 3.THE DEBT WAS LEGALLY ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON (DATE) NOVEEMBER 2016 NOTICE OF WHICH HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE DEFENDANT. 4. THE CLAIM INCLUDES STATUORY INTEREST UNDER S.69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT A RATE OF 8% PER ANNUM FOR THE DATE PF ASSIGNMENT TO THE DATE OF ISSUE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS IN THE SUM BE OF £0.00. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF £6000. What is the total value of the claim? £6500 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? YES, NOTICES OF CLAIM.  Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? YES  Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? NO Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? CREDIT CARD When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007?  BEFORE  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post? I DONT RECALL Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? NO  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DEBT PURCHASER.  Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? THE FIRST I RECALL WAS A LETTER FROM LOWELL SAYING THEY NOW OWNED THE DEBT.  Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? NOT THAT I RECALL OR BEEN PROVIDED WITH THROUGH CCA REQUESTS.AT LAST REQUEST THEY SAID THEY WERE AWAITING THE DEFAULT NOTICE AND NO ACTION WOULD BE TAKEN UNTIL RESPONDED WHICH TO DATE I'VE NOT HAD OR SEEN.  Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?  NO, I RECEIEVED LETTERS OF CLAIMS   Why did you cease payments?  i was under medical care which caused me not to work. around that time lowell had wanted me to increase my payments as it would take too long to clear the debt . i had been paying them what i was paying the bank. i explained my then health & financial position and that i was unable to do so. they put a hold on my account for a few months so i cancelled my direct debit. i made a full and final offer which was rejected. when they wanted payments to resume i explained i was in a worse financial position, still undertaking treatment and now unemployed so could not start payments as they wanted. after sending my financial spreadsheet they kept sending letters asking what i was going to do. i couldn’t see a way forward i felt stressed and under pressure so wrote that i would not be corresponding with them anymore. What was the date of your last payment? NOVEMBER / DECEMBER 2018   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? NO   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? I COMMUNICATED MY FINANCIAL PROBLEMS WITH THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY, WE MADE A MONTHLY PAYMENT AGREEMENT WHICH WAS KEPT FOR SEVERAL YEARS UNTIL DEBT WAS SOLD.  
    • Perhaps you would care to read this and reflect on your continuing comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany Jugg    ALEX BRUMMER: How grotesque of pro-Palestine protesters to besmirch Auschwitz, the place where my grandparents died WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK As the son of a refugee from the horrors of the Holocaust, I can feel nothing but contempt for the ignorance, gross... My elderly aunt Sussie and cousin Sheindy had been teenagers at Auschwitz and Belsen but survived and are alive to this day. What they will make of the protesters who waved flags, heckled and chanted as Israelis took part in the March Of The Living – the annual walk from Auschwitz to Birkenau – I cannot imagine. The images now circulating of the protesters are indescribably disturbing. They can only bring back memories of those final moments Sheindy shared with my grandparents when my grandmother Fanya squeezed her hand and told her to lie about her age to avoid the gas chambers. Claiming she was older, and could work, meant that Sheindy lived, not died. The outrage perpetrated by Hamas on October 7 has brought back the most terrifying memories for these two women – memories of pillage, mutilation and starvation. The Holocaust, or Shoah to use the Hebrew word, was the deliberate, industrial-scale killing of Jews.  It is bad enough that pro-Palestinian and pro-Hamas sympathisers have chosen to steal the language of the Holocaust.  Any comparison between Israel's retaliation and the monstrous genocide of the 1940s is odious and anti-Semitic
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Cap1 & CCA return


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Thanks Guys

 

Still having difficulty finding what is legally meant by unfair relationship... :-(

 

 

 

It's actually a mortgage company I wish to complain about...

 

 

You probably wont get a one size fixes all definition ....just as with 'reasonable force' the test will depend on the circumstances of the particular case.

 

What would be Unfair for one might not be for another...I guess that is why there is no rigid fixed rule on this...instead there are a number of 'factual situations' laid out in the regulations that ARE unfair and those that MAY be DEPENDING on the EFFECT of the breach.

 

m2ae

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Subbing on this thread.....need more time to sift my way through it...makes interesting reading. Makes me wonder where a lot of us would have been now if its wasn't for this site.

 

UP to our ears in CCJs, no doubt:)

 

Magda

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No that CCA can be "reconstituted" if an original can't be found?

 

I did try to search the forums but had no luck with my search terms. Thought they needed the original to get anywhere. Being able to reconstitute would mean they could rebuild it using any means?

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A reconstituted agreement can satisfy a s77-78 request but Ive seen no evidence that a creditor could suceed in recovering the debt in court without the original if challenged.

I have no legal qualifications whatsoever, so please check any input I have for accuracy. And please correct me if you disagree!

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It Would Have To Be A Reconstitution On The Basis That It Is An Excact Copy Of The Origional Otherwise You Can Also Reconstitute Your Own Aggreement I Would Presume

 

 

it HAS GOT to be an HONEST

AND

ACCURATE COPY...this is precisely the reason they are having difficulty in getting back to s78 requests before the judgement and now it will be all the more difficult as there is NOW Judicial utterances that the copy 'must not be a mere assertion' but that as reg 3(1) CC(Cancellation Notices And Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 says ''SHALL'' be a true copy.''

 

The older the agreement the more chance there is of it being a mere assertion.

 

For example:Mr Jones in 2006 requests a copy of that original agreement made in 1996.The actual original physical copy the creditor had has long gone.The creditor must therefore reconstitute the honest and accurate contents of the information from and in that physical document.This NOW IN THE PRESENT TIME has to be taken from other sources that existed at the time of the agreement.If Mr Jones's 1996 original cannot be 'resurrected' the chances that any information from Mr Smith's agreement in 1996 has gone as well and any information contemporaneous at the time of Mr Jones agreement in 1996 will most certainly not exist.They cannot look to Mr Smiths in 1996 because his are gone and so has Mr Singh's in order to re-constitute 'cos of course his has gone too so they may go back to 1994 or forward but then room for error creeps in and it no longer becomes an HONEST AND ACCURATE COPY but a mere assertion

 

It seems that there is a GENERIC defect.If you know the year for an original for which an honest and accurate copy cannot be -reconstituted then you can bet your boots that ALL THE ORIGINALS FOR ALL THE PEOPLE IN THAT YEAR MAY HAVE GONE.

 

If you look to Reg 5 and 6 in CPUTR 2008 you can use that to put pressure on the Creditors to either reduce to nil quickly or get u an honest and accurate copy.Either way u will not be left in the dark but u need to formulate your argument with the authority of the recent cases and regulations.Then dress the argument up with a scintilla of reasoning.

 

Otherwise they could be falling within an UNfair Commercial Practice...i.i misleading omissions (not telling you that they do not have an honest and accurate copy) or sending you Dishonest and INaccurate copy (misleading actions)..

 

Read reg 5 and 6 and formulate a credible argument..that is how I put pressure on Lowells to reduce from £4227 to £00.00 which I have put up on this thread or on the other I cannot remember which.My next objective is Cabot.

 

1 other thing of interest in the Carey case is that Judge Waksman said that because it only cost a quid to request the document this suggested that the document should be straightforward and relatively quick to reproduce...well why DONT they then??????

 

Rgds

 

m2ae;)

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Anybody thinking of taking legal action against a lender must read this very important case where the issue is enforceability of a regulated consumer credit agreement and reporting information about an account to a credit reference agency.

 

McGuffick v RBS (2009)

 

The Court held -

 

(i) The effect of the unenforceability under s 65 of the CCA 1974 was that the rights of the creditor and corresponding liability of the debtor continued to exist but were unenforceable.

 

(ii) However, reporting to credit reference agencies and related activities did not constitute enforcement under the 1974 Act and so non-payment of a debt under an agreement could still be recorded.

 

(iii) Demanding payment, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment from a debtor was not enforcement either.

 

(iv) Given that the continued reporting to the credit reference agencies did not amount to enforcement, there was no breach of the first data protection principle in Sch 1 to the Data Protection Act 1988 . There was simply no basis for the contention that the data was not being processed fairly and lawfully.

 

(v)The processing of the data by sharing it with other financial institutions through the credit refer-ence agencies was clearly in the legitimate interests of the bank, the credit reference agencies and other financial institutions, for all of whom the governing principle was that the sharing of data had the aim of promoting responsible lending.

 

(vi) Accordingly, there were no rights that could be the subject of injunctive relief.

 

Beware anyone who starts Court action without considering this case carefully.

 

A.

McGuffick_v_Royal_Bank_of_Scotland_plc_-_[20.pdf

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Anybody thinking of taking legal action against a lender must read this very important case where the issue is enforceability of a regulated consumer credit agreement and reporting information about an account to a credit reference agency.

 

McGuffick v RBS (2009)

 

The Court held -

 

(i) The effect of the unenforceability under s 65 of the CCA 1974 was that the rights of the creditor and corresponding liability of the debtor continued to exist but were unenforceable.

 

(ii) However, reporting to credit reference agencies and related activities did not constitute enforcement under the 1974 Act and so non-payment of a debt under an agreement could still be recorded.

 

(iii) Demanding payment, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment from a debtor was not enforcement either.

 

(iv) Given that the continued reporting to the credit reference agencies did not amount to enforcement, there was no breach of the first data protection principle in Sch 1 to the Data Protection Act 1988 . There was simply no basis for the contention that the data was not being processed fairly and lawfully.

 

(v)The processing of the data by sharing it with other financial institutions through the credit refer-ence agencies was clearly in the legitimate interests of the bank, the credit reference agencies and other financial institutions, for all of whom the governing principle was that the sharing of data had the aim of promoting responsible lending.

 

(vi) Accordingly, there were no rights that could be the subject of injunctive relief.

 

Beware anyone who starts Court action without considering this case carefully.

 

A.

 

 

 

This case concentrated on the scope of the word 'enforcement'.

 

Did it just mean to bring proceedings which is what MgGufficks Counsel tried not to limit to they wanted to include other activities such as reporting to CRA and that this was a form of enforcement too because it was subtly putting pressure on him to pay up and so effectively this WAS enforcement and putting pressure on his family so as to make him pay up through these means.

 

However the Judge Flaux stated that reporting to CRA can continue whilst the lender was defaulting as this did not AMOUNT to 'enforcement'

 

It was merely used to promote responsible lending and in order to attain that objective it was fundamental that information was reported and used in order that proper risk assessments took place before lenders lent to particular risk groups/individuals.

 

So Ali without being disrespectful using the word beware is a bit over the top.

 

If you have a genuine dispute the fact that they are gonna report u is a matter of fact we just have to accept it.BUT it does not by that reason alone lessen a persons chance in court merely because they are being reported to CRA and that fact should not and in reality does not affect what is in the actual content or as to form of the document.

 

They are different issues.

 

m2ae

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Anybody thinking of taking legal action against a lender must read this very important case where the issue is enforceability of a regulated consumer credit agreement and reporting information about an account to a credit reference agency.

 

McGuffick v RBS (2009)

 

The Court held -

 

(i) The effect of the unenforceability under s 65 of the CCA 1974 was that the rights of the creditor and corresponding liability of the debtor continued to exist but were unenforceable.

 

(ii) However, reporting to credit reference agencies and related activities did not constitute enforcement under the 1974 Act and so non-payment of a debt under an agreement could still be recorded.

 

(iii) Demanding payment, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment from a debtor was not enforcement either.

 

(iv) Given that the continued reporting to the credit reference agencies did not amount to enforcement, there was no breach of the first data protection principle in Sch 1 to the Data Protection Act 1988 . There was simply no basis for the contention that the data was not being processed fairly and lawfully.

 

(v)The processing of the data by sharing it with other financial institutions through the credit refer-ence agencies was clearly in the legitimate interests of the bank, the credit reference agencies and other financial institutions, for all of whom the governing principle was that the sharing of data had the aim of promoting responsible lending.

 

(vi) Accordingly, there were no rights that could be the subject of injunctive relief.

 

Beware anyone who starts Court action without considering this case carefully.

 

A.

 

Hmm...4th post and warnings about the impact of McGuffick? :rolleyes:

 

Mcguffick concerned only s77-78 requests. In this instance the creditor initially failed to satisfy a s78 request but then, prior to court action, satisfied it. (This is acknowledged by both parties).

 

In any even it certainly doesn't relieve the banks burden to produce a signed agreement if they wish to obtain judgement against the debtor - a fact you suspiciously missed.

I have no legal qualifications whatsoever, so please check any input I have for accuracy. And please correct me if you disagree!

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these companies usually keep an archive of their blank agreements

if they "re populate" a blank agreement of the time with your personal details i think the court is going to accept that this complies with s78

 

What does doing that serve? What if you still have your own copies and what the bank presnt looks markedly different? How would they explain that away?

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What does doing that serve? What if you still have your own copies and what the bank presnt looks markedly different? How would they explain that away?

 

Im with DD. s78 allows for reconstituted agreements, which must contain all the information that was contained in the original. So it may look completely different, but could satisfy a s78 request.

 

Could such a frankenstein agreement be used to recover the debt in court? I hope not!

I have no legal qualifications whatsoever, so please check any input I have for accuracy. And please correct me if you disagree!

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Im with DD. s78 allows for reconstituted agreements, which must contain all the information that was contained in the original. So it may look completely different, but could satisfy a s78 request.

 

Could such a frankenstein agreement be used to recover the debt in court? I hope not!

 

I think that is the nub of the whole matter. The "information" can be in a reconstituted "true" copy - but the REAL ORIGINAL needs to be used (incourt) to GET THE MONEY OFF YOU! - which is after all their real (only?) objective!

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Im with DD. s78 allows for reconstituted agreements, which must contain all the information that was contained in the original. So it may look completely different, but could satisfy a s78 request.

 

Could such a frankenstein agreement be used to recover the debt in court? I hope not!

 

There's a case at the moment where a recreated agreement has been submitted for enforcement.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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What does doing that serve? What if you still have your own copies and what the bank presnt looks markedly different? How would they explain that away?

 

they wouldnt if it was materially different and we are all hoping that what you suggest actually happens soon for the benefit of us all

 

shakespear62 is in the middle of (hopefully) proving an amex agreement to be a fraud as we speak

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No that CCA can be "reconstituted" if an original can't be found?

 

I did try to search the forums but had no luck with my search terms. Thought they needed the original to get anywhere. Being able to reconstitute would mean they could rebuild it using any means?

 

I think that's tantamount to falsifying information and fraudulent. That means they could be conjuring up pre-2007 agreements on post-2007 forms to get around the provisions of CCA. I would not trust those swine one bit: they are perfectly capable of doing it.

 

Never trust a banker!

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at the moment the courts decision making process is predicated upon the fact that these are national/international institutions and could not possibly be wrong or have not followed the correct procedures- let alone falsify anything

 

unless and until someone (hopefully shakespeare62) proves a case where this is not so and opens the floodgates- this is the situation we have to deal with

 

shakespeare62 is fighting such a battle, why not go over to his thread and donate to help him with the costs of the expert he needs to prove his document has been tampered with

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