Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Parking 'fine' at a Lidi car park by a company called Athena


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4575 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

A few weeks ago I got a charge certificate well that's what they called it for over staying at a Lidi car park by a company called Athena. So as soon as i got it i thought it was a joke after all it looks so fake. But anyway something told me I did not really have to pay it. So i looked on you tube and found a video say there really have no powers to do this sort of thing, and after doing a little more research i found this was pretty much true. So I'm not going to pay it. So move forward a few weeks, I now have a second letter saying I now have to pay the full price and if not they will send around a debt collection company to get it . So now I have a few questions

 

1 If the debt collection company come to my door how can i stop them from getting in

 

2 How long will this go on for

 

3 And is there any one in these forums that has had this sort of thing happen, and what was the out come

 

thanks to anyone who can help. I will keep you up dated

Link to post
Share on other sites

1) If a DCA turns up at your door, tell them to get lost - they have no powers at all.

2) How long is a piece of string?

3) Loads of people have experienced this (up to now I have been lucky) and I am sure that somebody will be along soon to point you in the right direction.

 

 

Welcome to CAG :-)

:razz:ALWAYS REMEMBER, IF YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO YOUR SITUATION, YOU ARE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF GETTING YOURSELF OUT OF IT

WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE DCA's!!!!!!!!!!!

 

IF YOU NEED HELP WITH UPLOADING YOUR IMAGES THROUGH PHOTOBUCKET CLICK HERE

IF I HAVE HELPED YOU OR MADE YOU SMILE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CLICK MY STAR

Link to post
Share on other sites

ignore

 

and it is NOT a fine

 

its a speculative invoice

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As hungry boss has said there really is nothing to worry about. Athena are a regular amongst the private parking brigade and we have heard from them on numerous occasions. Their claim - which is nothing more than a speculative invoice. I'm quite sure that if I was to send you an invoice for £75 simply because you share the same air as I breathe you'd not pay it. That's about the strength of the PPC argument.

 

You can safely ignore their demands and move on with your life.

 

To answer you questions:

 

1. If a DCA actually turns up at your address (extremely unlikely for the size of debt they are alleging - and who says that the debt exists?) simply invite them to go forth and never to darken your door again. DCA's have absolutely no more power to enforce debts than you and I - but they want you to believe otherwise. In the modern vernacular tell them to "do one".

2. You will probably get a few more letters. Some will use block capitals and red ink (woooo) and threaten that they may do all sorts of things. The reality is that they will do nothing.

3. Yes, and the vast, vast majority have safely ignored these demands without any issue whatsoever. I have a old yellowing series of letters from a PPC just waiting for the day when they issue the court proceedings they threatened. I gave up holding my breath a long time ago.

 

Some PPC's do occasional issue proceedings but Athena is not one of them.

 

Just to help things move along quickly - i.e. for the letters to stop sooner rather than later - do not reply to them verbally or in writing. Getting a response is what they want as they then know that they hooked a live fish and the number of letters actually increases. Also make sure that you do not ever get sucked into the idea of appealing. There isn't a PPC that has an appeals process worthy of the name and the process is about extracting more details from you - such as an admission that you or your other half, for example, was driving.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 If the debt collection company come to my door how can i stop them from getting in

 

 

Don't invite them in. What are they going to do? Force their way in? No way - and what if they did - what would they do then? Get themselves arrested for tresspass and get the sack too. These guys are just goons with no legal powers whatsoever, and if they were ever to take someone's property it would be theft, just as if you or I did.

 

 

2 How long will this go on for

 

 

Until it gets through to them that they are wasting their time and you're not paying.

 

 

 

3 And is there any one in these forums that has had this sort of thing happen, and what was the out come

 

 

Nothing. Nothing happens. They can't do anything. It's a bluff to get you to cough up. Don't!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hello again

 

First of all I would like to say thank you to everyone who replied to my message, well since then i have got another two letters one reminding me to pay the out standing fine which i have not done and the second one telling me its gone to a debt collector if full payment is not made in 7 days after which the debt (which debt i owe them nothing) will go up they have also said failing to pay may result in a county court judgement that would affect my credit rating.

 

The following action following a County Court Judgement is a follows

 

1 Bailiffs

2 Attachment of Earning Order

3 Third Party Debt Order

 

So all I what to know is were do I stand now.And just for the record I'm still not going to pay at this time,will keep you up to date thanks again for the replies

Link to post
Share on other sites

You stand where you always stood. You should expect letters deliberately intended to make you worry, and this is one of them.

 

You have another bit of paper. That's all. Line a hamster cage with it and get on with more important things.

Link to post
Share on other sites

its all bluff and bluster

 

totally ignore

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again

 

First of all I would like to say thank you to everyone who replied to my message, well since then i have got another two letters one reminding me to pay the out standing fine which i have not done and the second one telling me its gone to a debt collector if full payment is not made in 7 days after which the debt (which debt i owe them nothing) will go up they have also said failing to pay may result in a county court judgement that would affect my credit rating.

 

The following action following a County Court Judgement is a follows

 

1 Bailiffs

2 Attachment of Earning Order

3 Third Party Debt Order

 

So all I what to know is were do I stand now.And just for the record I'm still not going to pay at this time,will keep you up to date thanks again for the replies

 

The demand will be shot through with Ifs Buts and maybes, they are highly unlikely to take you to, court as it means they have to justify to a judge that their unlawful civil penalty is proportionate to their loss, which as Lidl normally has free parking is NIL so it is best to follow the established pack drill, Ignore

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok now we get onto serious advice as you have got to Debt collectors.

Step

 

1. Ignore

2. make a cup of tea and watch Corrie ( if your into that sort of thing) Oh and ignore

3. if all else fails goto 1

 

My daughter have loads and she has

 

Contacted them 0

appealed 0

dealt with debt collectors 0

Dealt with Baliffs 0

are you seeing a trend yet ??

Been to court 0

And finally

Paid any money to a PPC 0

 

Enjoy the free fire lighters when they come. But pls goto 1

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hello again just a little up date regarding my so called parking fine. I got a letter today by a debt company calling them self Legal Recoveries & collections Ltd (LRC) saying if I don't pay the outstanding fine they will start Court proceeding. I'm still standing my ground and refuse to pay it, Unless the replies on this blog tell me differently.

 

Thanks again for all your help so far

 

Nathan Gunn

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again just a little up date regarding my so called parking fine. I got a letter today by a debt company calling them self Legal Recoveries & collections Ltd (LRC) saying if I don't pay the outstanding fine they will start Court proceeding. I'm still standing my ground and refuse to pay it, Unless the replies on this blog tell me differently.

 

Thanks again for all your help so far

 

Nathan Gunn

 

Short of loo paper?

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I have just received another letter from Legal Recovers & Collections Ltd (LRC) saying this is a Final Demand and if I don't pay it they will consider Court action to recover the debt, by way of issue of a County Court Claim Form. So what do i do, do I just wait for this so called form to turn up or hope they know the're wasting their time and don't send one. I'm starting to get a little worried now so if anyone can help that would be great.

 

Thanks again to everyone who has replied to all my messages

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you get worried they are winnning and your falling for their trap.

 

Ignor this letter, ignor the next and ignor the next.

 

The ONLY exception to the ignor rule would be a letter that has a court stamp on it (extremly unlikely that will happen).

For everything else the ignor rule applies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The county court form will not turn up. Some PPCs have been known to send out fake forms to scare people but there haven't been any documented instances of this happening for quite a while. You can quite safely continue to ignore these jokers and laugh at how much paper and stamps they are wasting. Given the tone of their letters, you may well be nearly at the end of the "chain". Just hang in there and don't be tempted to send them anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just received another letter from Legal Recovers & Collections Ltd (LRC) saying this is a Final Demand and if I don't pay it they will consider Court action to recover the debt, by way of issue of a County Court Claim Form. So what do i do, do I just wait for this so called form to turn up or hope they know the're wasting their time and don't send one. I'm starting to get a little worried now so if anyone can help that would be great.

 

Thanks again to everyone who has replied to all my messages

 

:lol:not the one with the pretty looking scales of justice on it

 

they've never ever gone near court

 

silly beggars

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The key word was "consider" they will spend one nano second considering how unpleasant for them to have to be at the receiving end of a judgement against them. When you go through these splendid letters deleting every action modified by a may might could possible etc you are left with Dear xxx We want you to give us huge amounts of money otherwise we will scream and scream till we are sick.

They are not fines and if the document put on the vehicle pretends to be a statutory notice or they claim to have any powers to fine ape the appearance of a real PCN then they are breaking he law.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...