Out of the blue Bailiffs turned up for a ccj I didn't know about. - **SET ASIDE AND COSTS AWARDED**

[EzyChic]

Hi all,

I'm in a bit of a state - I can't sleep.

So today me and my newly wed husband get home from a shopping trip and behind the door is a note from the county court bailiff demanding I urgently contact them (in my maiden name). My husband looks horrified and hands it to me. I thought it was a joke, but alas - his face says not.

 

I contacted the county court (not the number on the paper but found the courts number online) as I thought maybe this was a [problem] of some kind - nope.

 

I have a CCJ for (of all things) unpaid nursery fees! I had no idea about this - I probed for more details and was given details of the solicitors that had enforced this.

 

I called them and after chatting (nicely - I am a nice calm person) - the 'fees' in question were, as far as I was concerned paid! I sent a cheque with a detailed letter of complaint about the actions of the nursery to head office back in September last year. In this letter, I said I was moving house and I would like them to contact me in respose via email (I made strong allegations and didn't fancy one of the staff knocking on my door and so didn't give my new address). I didn't get any response at all - nothing. And so 2 months (November) later I also emailed head office and said I had had no response to my letter - maybe they had posted me a reply - but as I no longer lived at that address could they please email me the response. I got a reply asking for my name, my childrens names and my account number. I provided this through email and even said - I am sure you have the letter as my final payment was enclosed and you clearly have that.

I never got a reply from them - I thought about taking my complaint further, but decided life was too short.

 

Then this today! I checked my bank and the have indeed NOT cashed the cheque! I was moving house at the time, I also work, was a single mum (was just moving in with my now husband) and a full time student. I didn't notice it hadn't gone out of my account.

 

The solicitor said they have written to me numerous times and served papers - but at my old address where they KNEW I did not live. They have not once contacted me about this matter by the means I asked them to (yes I do have the email correspondance with them). He also said 'we have had numerous phone calls with you regarding this matter' - but back tracked when I said I had never once spoken to anyone about this. He then told me they had 2 recorded conversations with me - but when I asked to listen to the recordings or for a copy of the transcript he said he couldn't give that to me. (I have honestly never spoken to anyone about this). So now what?

 

I clearly do owe the money, I'm more then happy to pay what I owe, and would have done as soon as they told me there was a problem with the cheque (if there was). But to add charges and send bailliffs around to my house? And ruin my credit file for 6 years. Can they do that? Knowing full well I would not be able to defend myself in court because they knew I was not living at the address they served papers on?

 

I'm scared bailiffs will come back tomorrow. I live on a nice street - all the kids go and play out together. I can't barracade us in, I'm so scared.

 

All I did was complain. I don't know why they have done this. I thought maybe becasue cashing the cheque would acknowledge receipt of the complaint? Or possibly to discredit my complaint if I took it to OFSTED (as in 'she doesn't pay her bill that's why she's complaining'). What do I do?

 

Please help me, I'm wide awake with anxiety.

 

I have emailed the solicitors with a detailed account - but I guess they won't care, they just want their money. And the baillifs won't care, they'll just come and take our things. How can they legally do this?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me

[Feebee_71]

Hi Ezychic,

 

As you knew nothing about the action being taken against you because they were writing to a previous address (a trick sometimes used by creditors to secure a default judgement due to non reply to the court papers) you have grounds to apply for a set aside of the judgement.

 

There is a form you fill in (sorry I don't know the number but, if you do a search for the term CCJ set aside, you should get plenty of threads about this) and present to the court with relevent fee and it will take the process back to the pre-judgement point and you can then go on and defend the action.

 

There are people far more knowledgeable than I who will come along soon enough and give you more advice about this. In the mean time, you should not contact the bailiff unless you can record the phone call, you should remove anything from the outside environs of your property and park any cars a good few minutes walk from your home to thwart any attempts by the bailiff to gain a levy on your property.

 

Now you've found this site you will get assistance with this matter and will, hopefully, get the CCJ removed along with any effects it would have on your credit record.

 

Feebee_71

[EzyChic]

Hi Feebee,

 

Thank you. I'm petrified they'll come back before I can fill in forms. I was under the impression a court bailiff could just break in (we have a new build- my husband would go mad). How would they know it was my car? It's registered in my married name, it's also worth at least quadruple the 'debt' (including charges).

 

It has occurred to me, even if I can go back to before the judgement, it will still stand that I owe the money and they'll still judge that I have to pay it, and so I will still have a CCJ at the end of all this.

 

Would the bailiffs not stop action if I called and said this was news to me and I was seeking a set back. I won't be able to let the kids out or anything if I have to lock everything.

 

Also, can they take my husbands things? His car is worth 4 times what mine is!

 

The solicitor today said the only way I will ever get rid of the CCJ is to pay it off including charges, then it will say 'settled'.

 

I'm so upset and angry, they knew how to get a hold of me, they knew I wouldn't get the papers and they didn't cash the cheque I sent before ANY of this polava.

 

Cantsleep.com!!!

 

Sorry about stressing. I have visions of a 7am bailiff call.

[brassnecked]

No the bailiff cannot "Just Break In" you need to download and fill in a form n244 from the HMCS site, fill it in and apply for a set aside, to quosh the default judgment on the ground of no knowledge, all papers sent to iold address, and more importantly, a stay of execution to stop the bailiff or HCEO enforcing the judgment (if the debt is more than £600 it can be transferred up to the High Court and a HCEO would be involved).

 

This can be solved and I'm sure one of the regular experts will be along soon. You could search out threads where tomtubby, ploddertom, and Hallowitch have posted

[Isiris]

I personally would contact the bailiffs office at the county court and advise that you are applying for the judgement to be set aside. Of any bailiff to be chased by, imo, the county court ones are the "Best" as they are not on any commision.

 

I would be confident that if you contacted them, they would say we will allow 7 days for the

[EzyChic]

Hi,

 

It's not £600. Not even with the charges. That's the 'funny' bit. The original debt is less then £300, not a great deal of money at all. I want to call the bailiffs but fear it will do more harm after what I've heard... Are they so unreasonable that they won't understand? These people have been very naughty knowingly sending things to the wrong address. Can I get an N244 from the courts? I may call and ask them to send me one and go through to the bailiffs too and let them know I am applying to set aside the CCJ in the hope that they understand.... Does anyone know what this costs? Typically it's mid month and we've just come back from a holiday in the tropics- so are skint.

 

Oh so little sleep. Thanks everybody that's helper so far.

[brassnecked]

Not if they are county court bailiffs, contact the court and tell them you are filling in a n244 for a set aside on the ground of non receipt of court papers and as they are the in-house bailiffs could they be put on hold to allow the n244 to be submitted, others will be along soon to help also

[EzyChic]

Also, just out of interest. If they quash all the court costs etc and it just goes back to the original amount... What happens to all those fees? Does the claimant have to pay them? I do hope so as they pretty much outweigh the debt.

[ploddertom]

Brain not in gear

Edited July 22, 2011 by ploddertom

[EzyChic]

Should I phone the courts and tell them of my intentions to stop any nasty visits?

[wonkeydonkey]

Set aside means everything goes back in the pot and the whole process starts again. If you have paid the amount owed in full and have those emails/ letters to back up your previous actions then I personally do not think you will face any costs or fees and of course you can claim back your own reasonable costs and Court fees.

 

WD

[wonkeydonkey]

Phoning the Court to tell them your intention will achieve nothing..they will quite rightly say there is nothing they can do until the paperwork is in their hands confirming the application for set aside and stay. Basically you can do nothing to stop the bailiff until the forms are filled in and in the Courts possession.

 

WD

[Isiris]

I believe the fee is £75 though I would argue in court that you could claim the £75 back from the otherside if you can prove they were aware you had moved.

[wonkeydonkey]

You are entitled to claim the fee back and also if set aside successful ( I see no reason why it wouldn't be) you can claim for any expense you have occurred to attend the hearing eg. loss of income/childminding costs, travel including parking costs,etc etc

[EzyChic]

OK, so where can I find guidance on filling in this form?

 

Their solicitor is saying they have recorded conversations with me on the phone.... they can't have - will them being able to produce such conversations discredit them?

[EzyChic]

OK, so where can I find guidance on filling in this form?

 

Their solicitor is saying they have recorded conversations with me on the phone.... they can't have - will them being able to produce such conversations discredit them?

 

I meant unable to supply such conversations

[wonkeydonkey]

N244 available to download from HM Courts and Tribunal Service Forms

Name of Court - where CCJ was awarded

Claim No - CCJ number

Warrant No - leave blank

Claimants Name - name of Claimant as entered on CCJ

Defendants Name - name of Defendant as entered on CCJ

Date - when you fill this in

Q1 - put your name in here

Q2 - tick relevant box

Q3 - a brief description - you are applying for set aside and stay of execution because you never knew you had a CCJ until a bailiff arrived on date xxx and you have not been allowed to defend your case. If applicable ask for case to be transferred to local Court.

Q4 - tick No

Q5 - tick at a hearing

Q6 - leave blank

Q7 - leave blank unless relevant

Q8 - District Judge

Q9 - Claimant & Defendant

Q10 - needs expansion of Q3 - better done on sheet(s) of paper with each point numbered Remember to copy of Statement of Truth on to last sheet & sign + date. Tick statement of case on form and again sign + date

Q11 - fill your details in

 

Take form to Court where CCJ was awarded with appropriate fee.(If local, otherwise send by special delivery)

 

Claimant is entitled to oppose your application but in most cases this can be disregarded.

 

What conversations does this Solicitor allege to have? if they exist and are relevant you are entitled to copies of them but I will await your reply before making further comment on how to retrieve them.

[Bartok]

Speak to the Law Society and make a complaint against the solicitor.

 

He made a false statement claiming to have recorded telephone calls when he doesnt. If the false statement was part of a process to obtain money from you, then the soliciotor commits a criminal offence under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents

[EzyChic]

Thank you.

 

All I have a claim number, I have never seen the CCJ. All I have ever had is this letter from a bailiff. Should I just put the nursery name?

[Bartok]

Do not contact the bailiff, follow wonkey and get an N244 set-aside done. (fee £80)

 

Reason:

 

 

The judgement to be set aside.

 

because

 

I was not informed of the date of the hearing.

 

Complete a Form EX160 if you are on a low income. Read EX160a for guidance,.

[EzyChic]

Yesterday when I spoke to the solicitor he mentioned 'numerous phonecalls' with me. I said I had never had a phone call from them. Then he said 'well actually we spoke to you on this date and this date and we have recordings'. So, of course, I asked to listen to the recordings. He said he couldn't get to them that easily. So I asked for a transcript of the conversation (I haven't ever spoken to them). He said he didn't have a transcript there, but he had detailed notes of the conversation. So I asked what the notes said. Then he put me on hold for a while. Came back and said 'I can only see the notes for one at the moment because its an old case.... you answered and said you were driving and would call us back'. Now, sometimes in the car the kids have the phone, and if it rang they'd answer it (not purposely, just as they're playing angry birds or whatever). If this happened, they would likely thrust it towards me, and me assuming it was my husband or whatever would say 'I'm driving' and hang up (I don't talk and drive). This is the only possibility I could have ever spoken to these people.... it's hardly an in depth conversation with them is it?

 

I have already asked them for a recording or at very least a transcript of these calls.

[Bartok]

You can do a SAR but thats a £10 fee. Telephone calls is "personal data" under the Data Protection Act.

 

You might be better to do it through the Law Society for making a false representation.

[Bartok]

Meanwhile get that N244 done, you'll sleep better knowing its on its way.

 

Do be assured that bailiffs cannot "break in" to your property. In fact, you are perfectly entitled to ignore the bailiffs calls.

[ploddertom]

Sorry brain wasn't in the correct gear earlier.

 

As everyone says you may apply for Set Aside on Form N244 - here's a link to read - http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_factsheets/how_to_set_aside_a_judgment_in_the_county_court.php . What has happened is a very common trick by a lot of claimants - the solicitor isn't a Mr Cohen perhaps. You also have to have a realistic chance of having the CCJ overturned - is there a chance you could pay the original sum demanded?

 

The most pressing problem you have is the Warrant of Execution the County Court Bailiff has. To stop any further enforcement or charges you also need Form N245 and apply to have the Warrant suspended until your Set Aside application is dealt with. If the Bailiif does call then there is nothing that says you have to allow him entry to your home or deal or speak with him. Unlike a lot of Bailiffs on these forums the Court Bailiff is usually more amenable as he gets paid a salary rather than having to exact fees.

 

PT

[EzyChic]

Yes, I can pay the original amount. I'd rather they waited until pay day, but I can pay it no problems. It's not the money thats the issue here it's the principle and the judgement against me. Like I say it's only £300 - we're not on te breadline - skint maybe but not poor. I bet the bailiffs almost wet themselves when they got here.

 

The down side to that is I'll have to pay for everything to fight this myself.

 

How would I go about paying them though. I can't send a cheque - they wouldn't cash it again. Do I pay their solicitors? What if they refuse to accept payment? O guess if I got the judgement quashed, and had already paid before another hearing, it would all be over turned.

 

I think they've done all this to discredit any complaint I made to OFSTED. I thought at first that was a bit of a conspiracy theory. But I guess they couldn't answer the complaint so decided to make me look stupid so I wouldn't take it further.

 

Their solicitor still hasn't emailed me back after I presented him with details.... I am working all weekend and so will get the court forms in on Monday.