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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      This is good ethical practice.

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6 hours a day travelling? :nono:

 

That makes the Job Seeker Regulations seem quite reasonable at only 3 hours (90 mins each way)

 

I think I'd be telling them where they could place that idea ;-)

 

Yes I will be telling them where they can place that idea. They must think we are absolute idiots :roll:

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They dont care if its a job you want to do, aslong as its a paid job and it gets rid of you.

I know

I had the "thinking outside of the box" spiel given to me once so I could do a job I had no interest in

Its just targets yet it's done by supposedly charitable companies, my pimp is a charity who have the dregs from 3 failed companies, there used to be one but then after seetec (still open unfortunately)A4E plus T&G came and now it's another

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Hi all,

I had an appointment with my pimp at Ingeus today, when he noticed that the majority of my job applications had been made via email, he demanded that I log on to my Email Sight and show him the contents of my "sent" folder (allegedly "mandatory").

My sent folder was EMPTY:oops:, this of course led to a demand to know why and a thinly veiled accusation of not telling the truth, my answer at the time was "dont know, maybe the settings?".

Having now checked I can confirm, (for Yahoo users at least), that copies of sent Emails ARE kept by default, but this setting is optional.

You could save a copy of every Email you send if you wish, but considering the potential for Identity Theft that this poses if your Email is "hacked" I personally would think twice.

Which leads me to the question can the WP pimps "mandate" that you enable the "save sent Email" folder?, it seems to me this would be contrary to our rights to privacy and the protection of personal data, as defined by the Data Protection Act.

Edited by Grumpyoldgit
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Hi all,

I had an appointment with my pimp at Ingeus today, when he noticed that the majority of my job applications had been made via email, he demanded that I log on to my Email Sight and show him the contents of my "sent" folder (allegedly "mandatory").

My sent folder was EMPTY:oops:, this of course led to a demand to know why and a thinly veiled accusation of not telling the truth, my answer at the time was "dont know, maybe the settings?".

Having now checked I can confirm, (for Yahoo users at least), that copies of sent Emails are NOT kept by default, this setting is optional.

You could save a copy of every Email you send if you wish, but considering the potential for Identity Theft that this poses if your Email is "hacked" I personally would think twice.

Which leads me to the question can the WP pimps "mandate" that you enable the "save sent Email" folder?, it seems to me this would be contrary to our rights to privacy and the protection of personal data, as defined by the Data Protection Act.

Although you may need to show a redacted job search diary giving basic information, you do not need to provide either a hard copy for their retention, or provide access to any confidential information covered by the Data Protection Act. Tough Luck if the W2W Clerk gets uppity.

Edited by RebeccaPidgeon
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Hi all,

I had an appointment with my pimp at Ingeus today, when he noticed that the majority of my job applications had been made via email, he demanded that I log on to my Email Sight and show him the contents of my "sent" folder

 

Most of the jobs i apply for are via email, and they have never had a problem with this.

It sounds like he was just being a jobs worth :x

 

Next time id tell him if he is willing to pay for my printer ink i will print off all jobs that i apply for as you always get an email confirmation, see what the pimp says to that!

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Would you mind letting me know how it goes regarding the involuntary loss of consciousness please osdset. I suffer with ventricular tachycardia and have several vt episodes daily,resulting in near or actual un-consosciousness.

Maybe they will make us wear a crash helmet in case we pass out lol :-)

 

Well it was a total shambles at Seetec, for a start the people at reception had no clue as to why I was there, despite showing them the 'mandatory' attendance letter, eventually someone got their act together and requested I take a seat, twenty minutes after the appointment time a really affable old chap in a cheap suit spoke to me and said he was waiting for a few more people before going into the pre booked 'conference' room.

 

I could go on for ages but to cut a long story short, eventually Darren (the old chap) deduced that out of the three of us that were there two were on ESA so half of his prepared speech was irrelevant, he then informed me that my participation was voluntary, but would I mind sitting through the rest of his spiel, I of course declined and his last words were " no doubt JCP will be in contact to see whether you want to volunteer for our services" I just about heard that as I was making my way out.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Well it was a total shambles at Seetec, for a start the people at reception had no clue as to why I was there, despite showing them the 'mandatory' attendance letter, eventually someone got their act together and requested I take a seat, twenty minutes after the appointment time a really affable old chap in a cheap suit spoke to me and said he was waiting for a few more people before going into the pre booked 'conference' room.

 

I could go on for ages but to cut a long story short, eventually Darren (the old chap) deduced that out of the three of us that were there two were on ESA so half of his prepared speech was irrelevant, he then informed me that my participation was voluntary, but would I mind sitting through the rest of his spiel, I of course declined and his last words were " no doubt JCP will be in contact to see whether you want to volunteer for our services" I just about heard that as I was making my way out.

 

I'm confused. I thought you said somewhere that you were mandated. I know I certainly wouldn't volunteer to go. I was asked this when my old adviser phoned up in November. As much as I would love to work, I'll do it when I'm well enough and won't go through the work programme.

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I'm confused. I thought you said somewhere that you were mandated. I know I certainly wouldn't volunteer to go. I was asked this when my old adviser phoned up in November. As much as I would love to work, I'll do it when I'm well enough and won't go through the work programme.

 

I was mandated onto WP by JCP, TBH I am a tad confused by this, the person who conducted the WFI put it across that I had been mandated onto the WP because my prognosis was under one year, as far as I am aware under those circumstances there is no voluntary option, the chap at Seetec looked up my status on the system and told me my participation was voluntary, I'm not holding my breath on this as I reckon the DWP have made a mistake somewhere along the line, but I'm not going to be the one to inform them of their possible error.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Now where have I seen this before?

 

The interview to discuss participation with a WPP is/can be issued by JCP/DWP as mandatory for all participant groups.

 

You are not on the WP yet! Only after this meeting (it's actually the next appointment) when WP participation starts.

 

At the end of this interview mandatory participants stay mandatory for WP. Whilst voluntary groups only become mandatory participants on the work program if they volunteer during the mandatory interview.

 

Luckily you had a chap who knew the rules.

 

.

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Now where have I seen this before?

 

The interview to discuss participation with a WPP is/can be issued by JCP/DWP as mandatory for all participant groups.

 

You are not on the WP yet! Only after this meeting (it's actually the next appointment) when WP participation starts.

 

At the end of this interview mandatory participants stay mandatory for WP. Whilst voluntary groups only become mandatory participants on the work program if they volunteer during the mandatory interview.

 

Luckily you had a chap who knew the rules.

 

.

Luckily I knew the rules as well, I went ready to refuse to sign any data waivers, action plans etc and not entertaining any job search or job application cobblers, the point is how many people have been fobbed off with the wrong information and signed two years of their lives away?

Edited by osdset

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Hi all,

 

I don't know whether to feel deeply saddened or extremely grateful for having found this thread.... I am a learning and development professional, who is extremely passionate in helping others achieve their goals and develop themselves and I recently seen a vacancy to become a Group Facilitator for Ingeus based in Edinburgh. Basically without giving a full job description, I would be responsible for running all the WP courses including subjects such as confidence building, cv writing and other things previously mentioned in these threads..... I was excited to think that I could put all my learning and development skills into a role where I could "give something back" and obtain job satisfaction through honesty, care, professionalism, approach-ability and integrity...I genuinely care about the service that I provide to my clients and hate to think that everyone I would be training/working with on these courses would either be forced into doing them or be there under extreme duress.... I am of course now considering not finalising my application.... However, I have not read any threads that are from the Scottish region, so if any of you have any experience of the Edinburgh and Lothians courses and staff, could you please let me know if you feel the same way about them as with the other Ingeus regions/staff? I would appreciate honesty but in a constructive way.... Many thanks

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Was the activity which you would probably have experienced at nursery school, down to Ingeus or some clerk from Asda who wanted to watch grown adults act as if they were infantile?

 

One of the vacancies which I applied for outside of Ingeus (I didnt sign the Data Protection Waiver, and therefore cannot access their IT System with Ultra Secret Vacancy Lists) was via an Agency, and they wanted me to attend a "Recruitment Day" which was modelled on "Dragons Den". Given that the agency hadn't even forwarded the CV to the Client and that no interview had been arranged, I declined, and the agency clerk was somewhat disappointed.

 

The fun (NOT) tower building was conducted by two Ingeus advisors as they watched to see what 2 out of the 15/20 of us who turned up there, were suitable to be passed onto Asda, we were even given a bag of sweets for each group as if building crap out of bright coloured straws and plastic cups and paper wasn't childish enough....they even rewarded us like kids too.

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6 hours a day travelling? :nono:

 

That makes the Job Seeker Regulations seem quite reasonable at only 3 hours (90 mins each way)

 

I think I'd be telling them where they could place that idea ;-)

 

Ok but playing devils advocate one could move closer to their place of employment. Move to where the jobs are.

And although the work might start at minimum wage there is always promotion.

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Hi all,

 

I don't know whether to feel deeply saddened or extremely grateful for having found this thread.... I am a learning and development professional, who is extremely passionate in helping others achieve their goals and develop themselves and I recently seen a vacancy to become a Group Facilitator for Ingeus based in Edinburgh. Basically without giving a full job description, I would be responsible for running all the WP courses including subjects such as confidence building, cv writing and other things previously mentioned in these threads..... I was excited to think that I could put all my learning and development skills into a role where I could "give something back" and obtain job satisfaction through honesty, care, professionalism, approach-ability and integrity...I genuinely care about the service that I provide to my clients and hate to think that everyone I would be training/working with on these courses would either be forced into doing them or be there under extreme duress.... I am of course now considering not finalising my application.... However, I have not read any threads that are from the Scottish region, so if any of you have any experience of the Edinburgh and Lothians courses and staff, could you please let me know if you feel the same way about them as with the other Ingeus regions/staff? I would appreciate honesty but in a constructive way.... Many thanks

 

Do you have people who suffer with anxiety and social anxiety disorder on your confidence building courses and are you trained in CBT or clinical psychologist?

 

To be frank mate no confidence course would help someone like me but yet people like me are sent on these silly courses that do more harm than good all the time.

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Hiya dyfed.... No, no medical training at all... although I have dealt with learning difficulties and social anxieties as part of my job, but I am not medically qualified.... I don't believe that anyone under qualified should be attempting to deal with conditions and disorders out of their knowledge base, so I would also be uncomfortable accepting the job if that was "the norm"... I would love to be trained in these areas as it would only help towards me helping others, but I would never be so fool hardy as to try to give someone "confidence" skills when they clearly want and need something much more relative to their individual needs and requirements....

 

Are you based in Scotland? I am just not sure whether to apply for this job now and would really like some more views.

 

Thanks so much for replying to me

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Ok but playing devils advocate one could move closer to their place of employment. Move to where the jobs are.

And although the work might start at minimum wage there is always promotion.

 

Move how? You need a deposit, maybe first month's rent up front and some money to live off.

 

To be frank mate no confidence course would help someone like me but yet people like me are sent on these silly courses that do more harm than good all the time.

 

Same. They tried to send me on one and I objected; because I know it's not going to help me.

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Move how? You need a deposit, maybe first month's rent up front and some money to live off.

 

I agree with you. Dont get me wrong I am not suggesting anyone should move I was only saying what others might say in that there is no problem with moving to where the work is.

I guess though that when you move you get your bond back.

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Hiya dyfed.... No, no medical training at all... although I have dealt with learning difficulties and social anxieties as part of my job, but I am not medically qualified.... I don't believe that anyone under qualified should be attempting to deal with conditions and disorders out of their knowledge base, so I would also be uncomfortable accepting the job if that was "the norm"... I would love to be trained in these areas as it would only help towards me helping others, but I would never be so fool hardy as to try to give someone "confidence" skills when they clearly want and need something much more relative to their individual needs and requirements....

 

Are you based in Scotland? I am just not sure whether to apply for this job now and would really like some more views.

 

Thanks so much for replying to me

 

Thanks for your answer and no Im in Wales.

Sadly I have read posts from very frieghtend individuals who suffer with anxiety who are sent on these confidence courses. One person I read about said they just sat in a room and couldnt say anything. After the first day they decided, even at the risk of a sanction, not to go back but see their doctor.

 

The problem will become more apparent now those on ESA can be sent on these courses by JCP staff who know next to nothing about anxiety disorders.

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