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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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claim form for 9,000 for wifes credit card from 2004 - no NOA? *sorted under a TOmlin Order*


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I have been fighting with a charming bunch of solicitors acting on behalf of an intransigent debt collection agency.

I showed the agreement to a firm of solicitors who act on a no win no fee basis and have a really good reputation.

 

They said they were unable to take the case on as there was not a reasonable chance of success

and having been issued with a County Court summons, my best move was to settle by means of a Tomlin Order.

 

Now whilst i understand the basis of a Tomlin order,

part of the draft agreement requires annual reviews on the basis of the scrutiny of an income and expenditure form.

 

If no agreement is made on the annual review amount then either side can take it to the court for a judge

to determine the ongoing repayment amount.

 

Who would be liable for the court costs?

I am just very wary that they will try and force an amount we cannot afford

and attempt to bully us into agreeing rather than be liable for court fees.

 

How do I prevent that situation occurring?

 

Thanks.

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The schedule should contain the clause each party to bear their own costs.If in the event there is need for recourse to the Court.The annual review is a standard requirement of a TO and in most cases can be decided between the parties without court intervention.

 

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Andy

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Without knowing the DCA and their legal firm we can't help much further... they could be a well known team on this site.

 

Have you acknowledged the CCJ yet, it isn't a cut and dried thing that it may be granted against you - if you do not acknowledge it online then you will get a judgement by default.

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They are a very well known team on here.

To be fair, the actual agreement looks fairly robust,

even though it dates from 2004,

 

the only possible chinks in their armour would appear to be things such as method of delivery of assignment,

no termination of agreement.

They have stated that they will address those matters by way of pro forma docs and affadavits.

 

All shaky ground I suspect these days with the legal system appearing to be happy to ignore the strict law and use a near enough approach...

 

Its been dragging on for about 5 months now with lots of stays to negotiate a settlement.

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Without naming them you are leaving yourself wide open, I can't give any more advice now.

 

If you think it is shaky ground then a Tomlin Order won't give you any protection at all.

 

Without knowing the firm and seeing the particulars of claim this is as good as admitting that you are wasting your time posting on here.

 

The other question is when was the last payment by you on this account, to the original creditor and to any DCA collecting.

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Hi, I was just asking for opinion on the wording of a particular facet on the Tomlin order :

e.g. Court costs if they (the DCA) want the court to adjudicate.

 

Whilst I really appreciate your interest, at the mo that's all I need to know about at the mo.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?308720-jon888999-vs-AK-***Settled-Via-Tomlin-Order-***

 

My circs. are broadly similar to this thread if that helps.

 

Thanks.

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I have no idea about the costs element, you are daft to sign something when you can defend it and maybe have it dismissed or discontinued.

 

A Tomlin order is admitting to the debt in its entirety and if you miss one single payment by one single day they can have you in court very quickly.

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Well i appreciate what you are saying, but maybe I would be 'daft' to risk a CCJ with the additional costs and aggravation that would make me liable for. I have negotiated a substantial discount off the 'asking price' already.

 

If I miss a payment I have 14 days to rectify the missing payment, which is a nominal amount anyway.

 

I have (touch wood) got rid of several large debts with the aid of CAG, so to get hit for just one is not too onerous in the scheme of things. But thanks for your positive advice.

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I have been party to a number of mediations that have resulted in Tomlin Orders

and only 1 debtor has had to pay the costs.

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Ok Brig, that sounds promising. Just don't want to get stitched up any more than I have to!

 

the orders are advantageous, low payment level,simple

to work and no CCJ.

I have seen £5 per month for 40 years.:madgrin:

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As to spouses income they have no need

to know any detail of income unless you

have a joint account.

Straight foward I&E,

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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It's your debt and your money going to be paying

it off, you are still and always will be in charge of

your money if your circumstances have not changed

then nor will the order.

Is this paid by standing order??

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  • 1 month later...

No, the court will look at your outgoings, it is not in the interest of the courts nor is it under English law your partners problem or debt ( only if in joint names ). If the court started that malarkey you would see a lot of skulduggery by people moving out and saying they were on there own... Remember the debacle of the CSA at first when it took partners wages into consideration, it caused more hassle than it was worth and would have been challenged in the high court so the government brought in a simple formula. YOUR DEBT, YOUR OUTGOINGS YOUR INCOME

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Happyhippy1959

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  • 1 year later...

About 18 months ago I used a firm of solicitors to beat off a off 3 DCA's who appeared to have valid agreements and wanted to proceed to court.

 

Two of them were defeated, never to be seen again.

 

The third, although deficient in a couple of small areas, had a good enough case to win.

In the end we agreed a Tomlin order for a sum of just over £9,000..

 

Things havn't improved financially at Baloney towers so we need to move.

There's not much equity in the house, but what there is we need to help fund the move.

 

My problem is that there is a clause contained deep within the order that,

'The defendant consents to the claimant obtaining a voluntary charge or charging order over the defendants interest in the property..'

 

It wasn't an issue at the time as if we went to court and lost, which seemed likely,

I would have had lots more legal fees to find and they would have gone for a charging order anyway.

 

Any solutions or suggestions folks?

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it'll be worth checking with the land registry to see if there is actually a charge or restriction registered.

 

 

If anything it would have to be registered as a restriction rather than a legal charge

and there is no obligation to pay them via the sale -

only an obligation on the solicitor to let them know that the house has been sold.

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I think the 'charging order' would only have been applied if the terms of payment contained in the TO were not met, this is quite common.

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