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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Reporting tax and benefit fraud?


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I am glad you took the chance to reply.

 

As has been mentioned by you and others, fraud is theft. That much is plain. No amount of patting on the back, no amount of saying you did it for the right reasons changes that. In my opinion, benefit fraud as it is at the moment, is a fairly new and developing blight.

 

A recent HMRC poll found that the majority felt 'everyone was at it', meaning the system was routinely defrauded. How have we arrived at this conclusion? Undoubtably HMRC has to shoulder the blame for not being robust with their penalites to start with, but now that they have begun to turn the screw the reaction seems to be 'how dare they! they won't dare prosecute you for stealing 18k'

 

Mental.

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Well, I dont think benefit fraud is a new thing. I think it's always been going on. It's just the benefit depts are maybe getting a bit tougher on it now & they also have more powers to pin point it going on?

I remember a relative going to court for it yeeeears ago, I am talking about 20 years ago at least. They were on income support & their friend decided it would be cool if they both went to work part time temping. This was back in the day when they couldn't dip into your bank account at the drop of a hat. And I dont think the tax office was even connected to benefit dept like they are now. This relative was grassed up by an ex boyfriend, & DWP went to the temp agency they were working for & used sneaky means to look at their books.

The temp agency said to my relative if she had let them know they would have stopped them having a look! I guess they could stop them too then! lol

They went to court & had to pay back about 500 pounds. No criminal record for it back then though.

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You are correct in saying benefit fraud is not new. The burroo (as it is known in Scotland), has been scammed since it began. However, areas such as Childcare (as this forum will confirm), child disability etc, these areas are new. This may be simply because assistance in these areas is new.

 

I think the fact that much of the contact with regards to benefits have moved away from face to face contact has had an influence. It is far easier to lie over the phone, tick a box, faslify figures when you don't have someone else there. My main concern is the moral acceptance with is apparent on here and out on the street. It would be interesting to conduct a poll as to where the line is drawn for some people regarding crime. Is tax evasion of 18k wrong? Is theft of 18k of tax credits wrong? Is theft of £100 from under a mattress wrong?

 

HMRC must undoubtably shoulder some of the blame for not starting Tax Credits with a robust system of penalties in place, but we cannot display mock outrage now that they are catching those 'at it'.

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Who knows where the bounderies lie. Other depts have set it pretty much at 2k. If it's under that it's not fraud, if it's over that it is. Regardless of reason. Unless it's concrete that it's an official error, if it's over 2k, head to jail, hypathetically speaking. Not literally of course.

The child care element does seem to be causing the tax office the biggest headache it seems. No idea why, never claimed that one personally, as mine were youngest age 11 when I started working part time & claiming tax credits. Oldest was 13, but to be honest, putting my 2 in childcare would have drove them mad lol so I did leave them on their own at first, only saturdays as during the week they were at school.

Thankfully, the house didn't burn down & they are now 16 & 14.

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With regards to the value of payments made under false details I can't say I have much knowledge. However, my own issue is that no value of fraud should be seen to be okay. The level that tax credits will prosecute at will be based on a cost/benefit analysis.

 

Geographical areas of high fraud are due to be targeted as mentioned in HMRCs own report. It can be googled for those interested.

 

My own area of interest and indeed my ongoing study and eventual career, is the psychology behind fraud and risk taking. This forum can make for compulsive reading.

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It can. Sounds interesting. I am more into the miscarriages of justice at the moment, not benefit related. But ended up on here when a complience officer visited me at the begining of the year. Wondered what they were for, & been here ever since.

It's interesting how the threads have changed, at the time there were a lot of threads about people being called for interviews under caution, especially for living together but claiming as a single person reasons, now those have died down & it's the tax credit thing. Must be the time of year maybe.

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Before working and child tax credits it was Family Credit paid either weekly or 4 weekly and it was reviewed every 6 months based on the previous 5 weeks or 2 months wages, people could do as much overtime as the liked in the period that didn't determine their payments and the whole system didn't generate half as many errors. As soon as the Givernment declared the new Tax Credits system introduced in 2003 all processing officers (in DWP or Benefits Agency as it was known then) as well as Tax Credits Unit (or Inland Revenue as they were known then!) declared that levels of Fraud would increase but the Government decided that everything would work out for the best. 8 years on and how many people have had absolutely no problems with Tax Credits either through overpayments of Fraud?

Out of 8 years of claiming Tax Credits I have had 2 years of renewals actioned correctly without me having to query everything and sort it out myself!

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Oh yes, family credit, the kids dad & I claimed that when they were first born. It was very similar wasn't it. We had split & I was already claiming Income support during the time it changed to tax credits.

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I have to agree with flumps. The tax credits system appeared to be Gordon Browns baby and could not be challenged despite the glaring inadequacies it presented immediately after its inception.

 

The system was, some may argue still is, wide open to abuse. Any business minded person will tell you that retro fitting is costly and unnecessary where an adequate original system was created. Regardless of thoughts on the current administration, they have recognised the disjointed mess that is the current benefit/credit system needs simplified for the sake of both those claiming and those administering.

 

Who knows what the universal credit will hold, it can't be worse than what we have...can it?

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Many years ago i did report someone who was claiming and working. The only reason i knew was she dates my brother, had 3 kids none his, worked 3 part time jobs, and one of those she turend up to where i was working

and got herself a job, i couldnt believe it.

 

Went on to report her they did say if they prosecuted her i would get £50.00 told them i didnt want the money, they got her in the end, after several interviews, she denied it at first, but when they named all the 3 places she worked she couldnt deny it any more, got fined i think in the end, only knew from my brother telling me.

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you do actually get money for telling on people about benefit fraud, thats why a lot of people do it, £50 is a lot of money to people who havent got any, i still dont agree with reporting to the authorities, thats just the way i am im sorry if it offends people

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No offence beachbird, each to their own. Personally, my view remains: if you have good reason to suspect somebody is claiming benefits whilst working then you have a civic duty to report that. We, the unemployed and disabled, are currently being castigated and lumped into a 'scrounger scenario'. This is purely - in my view - because people won't report. We want those lowlifes off benefits as much as anyone else. They are dragging us down with them. So, please report your suspicions...

Rae

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As far am I am aware people have not been paid any reward for reporting benefit fraud for quite a few years at least since JCP was rolled out 2001 unless it is different in different regions.

I don't think anyone should be rewarded finincially for reporting someone.

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The system of reward for reporting fraud is to either be revived or ultilised more regulary, which of these I cannot remember at the moment. I dont appear to have sufficient privileges at the moment to post a link, but HMRC and DWPs joint paper on tackling fraud highlights the possible adoption of this method to reward both individuals and 3rd party private companies who highlight areas such as undeclared partners.

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DWP will also explore ways of encouraging more valuable calls to the National Benefit Fraud Hotline. We will look at both rewards and sanctions, implementing mechanisms to ensure that those who provide particularly valuable information to the hotline have their contribution rewarded, as well as seeking to put a stronger obligation on those who have information about a fraud to report the case. Alongside this, we will explore ways of integrating the work of HMRC more closely with the hotline

I have copied this from the Document, which is in the Public Domain.

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Wee fella,

What point are you making now.

We all know about fraud and reporting it.

You have already said you are studying fraud.

This site is for help and advise for people on benefits not for you to use for your research.

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