allied international return £1 po for cca request

[stuck03]

Hi, i am starting a new thread for this one as dont want to get 2 posts mixed up.

I had a personal loan and 2 overdrafts with natwest. I got made redundant and struggled to pay and incurred loads of charges so switched my money to a safe bank account.

One of the overdrafts was in joint names and is being paid back through my partner by way of a consent order.

Allied international credit contacted me and badgered me into paying £100 a month even though my only income is about 160 per month.

I paid them one payment and then discovered this site.

Allied have sent me a demand which combines the loan and both overdrafts into one new reference number. i got told that they cant do this so sent them a cca request.

They have returned my cca request with my pound postal order with the following letter:-

 

Dear...

re Natwest bank 000000

allied international credit (UK) ltd 000000

 

Thankyou for your recent letter.

 

As we are currently acting on behalf of natwest bank in respect of recovering the outstanding debt on this account, we are unable to comply with your request. Such requests need to be addressed to the legal owners of the product, which in this case is NATWEST BANK.

 

To enable them to provide the documentation you have requested you should contact the bank directly by writing to:

 

address

 

You will also need to provide them with the sort code and account number and enclose a piece of photographic identity with an original signature. Please ensure this is accompanied by a payment of £1.00 (cheque or postal order made payable to the client name as stated above)

 

Yours sincerely

 

xyz

 

Any advice would be great

Thanks

A x

[247orbital]

You do not need to send any signatures for a CCA request. If they have been contacting you at your current address regarding matters of a personal nature then why would they need to further prove who you are.

 

Send a SAR (cost £10) request to the OC, a copy of the CCA should show up as part of this also.

[lop]

I am unsure about the photograhic and signature. However if you send them a request with the account number etc, they should provide this to you. Once this is done, be sure to notify Activ that you have requested the said information and that they should place the account on hold. Unless you have changed address from the last address they hold for you?

 

If your income is only 160 per month then 100 is entirely unreasonable. If you want to pay - which by your admission of debt ehre, i assume you do, then pay what you can afford. Work out your incomings and outgoings and work out a reasonable repayment amount. Alternatively seek the advice of a 3rd party such as the CCCS - that will frustrate activ even more - they do so hate the £5 month repayments and look on at horror at the £1 payment.

 

Just depends on what you want to do.

[Stigman]

Hi Stuck,

As Allied Int. returned your postal order, wait out the 12 + 2 working days and send them the account in-dispute letter, it's not your job to go to Natwest and do Allieds job for them.

The CCA was for the personal loan, unfortunately overdrafts are not covered by a CCA request.

If you have to pay back the overdrafts, because of your income, pay a maximum of £1 a month and NO MORE!

Stigman

[spamheed]

Typical DCA rubbish

 

1 You do not have to make another CCA request from anyone. You have made a perfectly correct and lawful request and have fulfilled all of the requirements of making such a request. They are required to either fulfill your request themselves, or pass it on to the person(s) who are able to fulfill the request. As long as you can prove that:

a. you made the CCA request

and

b. they received the CCA request

 

then the jobs a good un, what they choose to do with your request or the £1 you have attached is none of your concern and does not impact on nor diminish their responsibilities under CCA.

 

There is no requirement for you to provide them with any form of identification and you should never supply a signature in the normal course of dealing with these "people" don't forget it is they who are making demands of you, it is "they" who need to prove their right to be contacting you and enforcing any debt.

 

As they are unable to fulfill the CCA request, it would also seem most doubtful that they have any right to be contacting you

[stuck03]

Thanks guys, as they have merged my loan and overdrafts together under a new account number surely there will be no cca request to be found. I still receive my annual statment from oc. Is it worth me cca natwest with new account number(which i have never signed) or just dispute allied.

Yes i want to pay debt off but need it to realistic until i am back in work.

They have tried to get my partners i and e but there not having it as its not his debt. He has enough of his own to worry about

Thanks all

A x

[nicklea]

What the others have told you above is not correct.

 

What Allied say about who the 1 pounde postal order is made payable to is correct. It must be made payable to the creditor. Under the OFT guidance Allied are quite within their rights to return the payment to you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?299805-No-CCA-Sent-Postal-Order-Back-ADVICE-REQUIRED-PLEASE&p=3352778&viewfull=1#post3352778

[stuck03]

i sent a blank postal order which has been returned, does that make any difference. what is the next step best to take

thanks

a x

[nicklea]

To be honest, I would just send the postal order made payable to Natwest along with the request direct to Natwest. If you send the postal order made payable to Natwest to Allied International they will just sit on it for a while before sending it on to Natwest which won't help you much.

 

I would suggest that you also get a certificate of posting from the post office. This will be evidence that you have actually sent the letter and is free of charge.

[Whoosh]

I recently had exactly the same response from Allied to my request, they supplied an address with mine to send to the OC so that is what i did.

 

Got a garbled response from the OC but no cca. Have told them it's in dispute and apart from a carbon copy of the letter allied sent me telling me it's not their job to get the cca have heard nothing further for about a month now.

 

I decided to go this way really just so i could honestly say that i had tried should it ever go any further, I felt that it showed a level of committment in trying to address the issue and work with them.

[chattanooga]

Allied have sent me a demand which combines the loan and both overdrafts into one new reference number.

 

Interesting, that is exactly what they did with me as well. I have written to them on several occasions basically saying I don't recognise the amount and asking them to break it down into which accounts (if it more than one) and the individual balances. They have ignored every correspondence.

 

Have you had any luck getting them to itemise the account or accounts they are talking about?

 

It seems to be a tactic of theirs, goodness knows to what end though.

[stuck03]

That is why i sent them a cca, i know what the amounts are for but its the fact they have combined them to one new account. i have never agreed for it to be combined together. they did offer me a 50% reduction for a full and final but i am not in a position to pay this. I should have three seperate accounts, instead i have got 1 big one!!!

[chattanooga]

Ah, I see. Our situations are slightly different in that I have several accounts with the original creditor and I genuinely don't know which account or accounts they are trying to collect on...and they simply won't tell me. Bizarre I know, but true.

 

I would suggest that it is simply impossible to merge several accounts into one given that the terms and conditions will be different and you haven't signed for oany new one(s). AIC are being nonsensical.

[stuck03]

my accounts are all with the same oc as well. its just that they cant combine them as loans and overdrafts are covered my different parts of the consumer credit act i think x

[Bazooka Boo]

Correct, overdrafts have part V exemptions from the CCA, so technically, you could send the OC the CCA request with the reference/account number used by AIC, then when the OC comes back with 'no such account exists', you can then tell AIC, along with a copy of the OC's letter, that they are deluded and have fabricated this account, therefore it is seriously disputed, and you have informed the OFT&TS to investigate their claim.

[stuck03]

love your thinking bazooka x It will give me a little more time to play with aswell if thats allowed. i know the debts exist and will pay them but some more breathing space will definatly be good. i will cca the oa with my non existent made up account number that i have not signed for. cheers a x

[Tingy]

I'd go a step further BB. I would do exactly as you say, but when they reply saying they can't find that account, write to AIC saying the OC has confirmed that no such account exists and therefore they must be mistaken and there can be no debt owing unless they can prove differently. Until that point you will be reporting them to the OFT for pursuing a debt when it is not sure you are the debtor + whatever else you come up with and will be paying nothing as according to the OC there is no account so there can be nothing owing.

[payback68]

Hmmmme part v exemption?

 

Read the following:

 

1. Section 65 in Part V of the Act provides that an "improperly executed" regulated agreement is unenforceable by the creditor without a court order. It is common ground that a regulated agreement is "improperly executed" for this purpose if the requirements of sections 57 to 63 have not been complied with.
   

1. Section 74 of the Act provides for the exclusion of certain agreements from Part V. It provides as follows (so far as material):
   

"74. – (1) This part …. does not apply to –

(a) ….

(b) A debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account,

© ….

(2) ….

(3) Subsection 1(b) … applies only where the OFT so determines, and such a determination –

(a) may be made subject to such conditions as the OFT thinks fit …

(b) ….

(3A) …. in relation to a debtor-creditor agreement under which the creditor is …. a bank …. the OFT shall make a determination that subsection 1(b) above applies unless it considers that it would be against the public interest to do so.

(4) …."

 

Regards

 

PB68.

[stuck03]

hi payback, what does this mean in idiots language....thanks a x

[payback68]

Firstly, overdrafts are most DEFINATELY covered under CCA1974, you just have to request different information i.e

 

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

 

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

 

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended, of the procedure for terminating the agreement; and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

 

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

 

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the CONSUMER CREDIT Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

It is therefore clear that in order to enforce a current account overdraft in court, the claimant has to demonstrate that they have adhered to the above stipulations.

 

Part V exemption only applies if it's not in the public interest to exempt it according to the OFT, although the DCA's are using this exemption all the time.

 

Regards

 

PB68.

[Bazooka Boo]

PB can you post a link to wherever you have got that info from?

[nicklea]

I really don't understand the point that is being made here. You are simply describing what the exceptions are. In the case of an overdraft there is no need for a signed agreement but they merely need to inform you of the overdraft limit and the interest rate.

 

The determination from the Director of Fair Trading, the predecessor to the OFT, just says that banks can do this.

 

The link that you are looking for Bazooka is a case called coutts v sebestyen:-

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2005/473.html

 

and there was a cag discussion on this topic here post #6:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?31515-CCAs-and-overdrafts&p=1269185&viewfull=1#post1269185

[payback68]

The point i am making is the fact overdrafts are covered by CCA1974. The exemption which was 74 (1) (b) was revoked on February 1st 1990, so the numerous DCA's who are using this as an exemption need to think again.

 

Baz if you read the Coutts v Sebestyen link that nicklea has posted s17-22 it explains it all there.

 

Regards

 

PB68.

[nicklea]

payback,

 

No one has ever argued that overdrafts aren't covered by the CCA - so again I'm a bit confused why you're saying this.

 

With regard to the determination, from what you say, you appear to have got things the wrong way round. It was from that date that they could have the exception from the part V requirements.

 

Banks do not have to provide a signed agreement with regard to an overdraft as long as they do comply with the terms of the Determination

[stuck03]

well everybody is completely baffling me now....