Esa Appeal turned down, can't claim Jobseekers allowence help me!!!

[Nystagmite]

You can only appeal on a point of law.

[rdm2006]

Fortunately I won the appeal so i never got to test that theory but that is what i was told

[banksarggg]

a Woman i spoke to before (the only one that has ever helped me) said that i was able to put a new claim in for esa but if there was anything else i forgot i suffered with as long as the doctors sick note said it on there id be able to put another claim in

Hope this helps hun

[rdm2006]

Yes for example if you claimed for a physical illness before you can now claim for your depression without waiting

[leemack]

I was told by my advisor in the jobcentre (the ones you have to see every so often) that even if you are turned down at tribunal you can still appeal that and keep on appealing each time you are turned down- OK so you wont get the extra £25.00 per week but at least you will get something

 

Unfortunately some of the jobcentre advisers think they understand the system but actually don't. Even if you appeal a tribunal decision further on a point of law - you still have to reapply for benefit as the appeal payments end with the first tribunal.

[equinimity]

I won an appeal in dec 2009, i was sent for reassessment in oct 2010-which I was found 0 points again for same condition. I am now in the appeal process again. It is obvious that atos have a vested interest in getting as many people as they can off s/b ic/ben.I would advise everyone to appeal. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain. The appeal panel are "human" and do listen. Take as much medical evidence as you can-be positive.Also mention things like would it be safe to work,ie do you take painkillers which make you drowsy?It is an offence to put your own or anybody elses life at risk while at work.Elf and safety!

8-)

[SueP1944]

Surely this is fraud? And it would become obvious if the OP kept writing "found nothing", etc.

 

Why? There aren't any jobs! Many have been looking for months and still unemployed.

[Nystagmite]

So, what happens if they say they can'r find anything and the adviser does? They'll get sanctioned then.

[flumps1976]

Changes are coming for JSA claims and their customers. More more matching will be required at every attendance such as signing or appointment between the customer and the adviser assistant and/or adviser.

If people are regularily turning up for appointmemts stating they haven't found anything and there are things found whilst in the office then further questions and doubts can be raised on payability.

[osdset]

Surely this is fraud? And it would become obvious if the OP kept writing "found nothing", etc.

 

Fraud? Technically yes, but in these circumstances would it be morally wrong? I's not for me to condone anyone knowingly breaking the law, but I would feel I had no choice under similar circumstances other than to lie through my teeth, at the end of the day it's about survival.

 

If what Mandyjay has posted is a true reflection of what happened, and we have no reason to doubt it, then she (I take it you are a 'she' apologies if not!) has been let down completely by the system, and forced into the catch 22 situation of unfit for JSA too fit for ESA.

 

ATOS have no qualms about lying, the DWP have no qualms about denying benefit, why should someone who has been shafted by this government have any qualms about 'adjusting' a job search to fit what's required?

 

I'm afraid that in the current situation, and for the foreseeable future more and more claimants will be forced into breaking the law and lying just to get what they should be entitled to, IMHO the government have declared war on the sick, disabled, and unemployed, all bets are off and all fairness is out of the window, fight fire with fire.

[mandyjay]

Im updating what has happened since all this above was going on , I reclaimed ESA and my doctor started giving me sick notes every month again, I went to my medical again and was awarded 12 points so I failed to be awarded the benefit again but at least this time they gave me some points, I wrote to the ESA department to appeal and two weeks later I was sent a letter saying they had awarded me the ESA benefit but they put me into the group that they help find work so Im still in this situation..

 

The problem is I went to the job centre last week the lady I was seeing was very snooty and was looking down her nose at me I felt uneasy straight away, she kept saying I either have to find work or do some maths, english, IT courses then get a job I kept telling her over and over again no one would employ me because I can't sit or stand for long I cannot bend down, pick things up, I walk with a stick or use a wheelchair because I suffer so much pain all over my body because of my Fibromyalgia and other illnesses and when I told her I had a slipped disc she said "Oh I have a bad back aswell but I can work" then I said I had a heart condition she replyed "oh I have a heart condition aswell but I can work" she didn't listern to a word I said..I told her I couldn't do a course at college ect because I would miss so much of it I wouldn't pass and I know no one would employ me with all my health issues because I would have to much time off I would get the sack... She told me they can take £27 off my benefit if I don't do what she says (i.e work or get a course).

 

I asked her if I could get put in the other ESA group that cannot work at all due to health she told me I can write to the ESA department and ask them to change groups stating why I cannot work but she then said there's not much point because they never change groups ... I left the job centre in tears I was made to feel as if I was making my health problems up or it wasn't as bad as it said in my notes or what I was telling her . I struggled to sit in her seat to talk to her and when she finished just 20 minutes later I could hardly stand up but as I did she gave me a DLA form to fill in , whcih confused me alot because she was just telling me I was fit for work now this... my boyfriend had to help me back to the car then for the next 3 days I was in bed in constant burning stabbing pain all over my body I was taking my oralmorphine every 4hrs to cope with the pain and I felt so depressed because of what she said to me I would love to work I hate not being able to work.. I started work at the age of 13 with a paper round and at 15 I started working in a newsagents I worked right up until the birth of my 3 children only have the 6 wks off then I went back to work then after I had my third son I started to get ill, so I started working part time in a shop and eventully I had to give work up because I was having more time off than I was working due to the pain I suffer on a daily basis... Im unsure what to do now should I bother wrighting to ask to be changed into the other group .. Is there any point as the lady told me they don't change peoples groups ..I have filled in the DLA form she gave me and Im posting it tomorrow..

 

 

I think how they treat ill/disabled people is horrible they go on what the Asos doctor says .. These doctors only see you for 30 minutes or less , my doctors have known me for 20+ years she knows how I feel, all my illnesses and see's how much pain I suffer but the goverment doesn't want to hear from our own doctors anymore . I went to see my G.P a few days ago I told her what had happened at the job centre and she wasn't happy (because its almost like saying my doctor is a liar aswell ) but she told me she isn't allowed to write a letter to them anymore because they have to go by the goverments doctors even if there wrong..Its so not fare ..

 

Advise please ...

 

Thankyou

Mandy x

[Nystagmite]

She's telling you wrong. WRAG is about helping you get back into work. So, they may offer you courses. But, unlike people on JSA, you don't have to be seeking work.

[antone]

The only way you could lose benefit as a result of these interviews is if you fail to attend them. You do not have to accept any courses or work you may be offered.

[mandyjay]

Thankyou for letting me know the lady told me they would stop £27 out of my ESA because Im not looking for work or doing a course I left the job centre thinking I was in the same situation as before ... I am going to write to the ESA department to ask to be changed groups then I won't need to see her again ... Im already worrying about my next appointment in 5 weeks time because she made me feel so stupid and was making out my illnesses were in my head ... I suffer with anxiety and depression and now she's added to that

[Nystagmite]

The £27 is only removed if you refuse to take attend the interviews.

 

http://www.disney.go.com/mickey//employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1482-employment-and-support-allowance-esa-sanctions

 

I would be tempted to complain. You're being quite a bit of incorrect information here.

[lilly of the valley]

Hi Mandyjay,

 

You have said that no employer would employ you with your current ill health and you are right, don't let those unlearned people make you feel as though you are dishonest and that your illnesses don't matter, you are stronger than that, you know what you have been through and what you are going through, I know that it is headache and a lot of wasted time, but you should apply for whatever job you can, this is not only to appease the jobcentre but to also secure your benefits, whether it be jsa or esa, they can stop your money if they feel that you are not doing enough to better whatever your situation, they can also make things difficult for you, especially if you are in the work-related activity group, if when placing you in this group it was stated that your capability for work was limited then you could relax more.

 

There are times when it is not even worth fighting and giving yourself undue stress, just do what you have to do to pacify them and keep them sweet, allow them to think that you are listening to them but you know that a job will not be offered to you, there are so many candidates going for the same job now a days, when they see the declaration part of your application and read that you have serious health conditions, your application will not be far from the dustbin.

 

Don't upset yourself Mandyjay, you have more sense than these people and you know how to play the game and win everytime.

 

L x

[mandyjay]

Thankyou Lily of the Valley I have made an appointment at the CAB on monday and I am going to ask them if this lady can talk to me like she did, everytime I said 1 of my illnesses she said she had the same it made me feel stupid and upset me alot... Your right about not letting them get to me but its easier said than done but I will try , I will write to the ESA department to ask to change groups and if they say no I will go to every meeting and go for the jobs she tells me to as you say not one person would pick me over a healthy person... That way I keep my full benefit without her moaning..

 

I just wish I could change job centres because my son is going to the job centre closer to my home it seems abit silly to travel out of my way when I can go to a closer centre and to tell the truth Im abit nervous going back to speak to this woman because of the way she spoke to me , looking down her nose at me and talking to me as if Im making these illnesses up or there not as bad as Im saying..

 

Do you think If I called the job centre and asked to be moved they would do it for me ?

 

Hugs :o)

Mandy

[poollie1]

Thankyou Lily of the Valley I have made an appointment at the CAB on monday and I am going to ask them if this lady can talk to me like she did, everytime I said 1 of my illnesses she said she had the same it made me feel stupid and upset me alot... Your right about not letting them get to me but its easier said than done but I will try , I will write to the ESA department to ask to change groups and if they say no I will go to every meeting and go for the jobs she tells me to as you say not one person would pick me over a healthy person... That way I keep my full benefit without her moaning..

 

I just wish I could change job centres because my son is going to the job centre closer to my home it seems abit silly to travel out of my way when I can go to a closer centre and to tell the truth Im abit nervous going back to speak to this woman because of the way she spoke to me , looking down her nose at me and talking to me as if Im making these illnesses up or there not as bad as Im saying..

 

Do you think If I called the job centre and asked to be moved they would do it for me ?

 

Hugs :o)

Mandy

 

You have to write to the office that deals with your claim asking for a reconcidertion of the DM decision to place you into the WRAG Group when you feel you should be in the Support Group, you have to do this within a month of the original decision letter you received. My advice to you would be to put a complaint in about the advisor that was so rude to you, what she has told you is wrong information, she is only there to advice you on how you may be able to return to work. You do not have to look or return to work or go on any courses. Your money can only be sanctioned if you fail to attend these interviews.

[assisted blonde]

Well yes it could be fraud, but you could look for work in the local papers/internet etc and even send off some applications you are unlikely to get a job interview because of the health problems but you ae still looking for work so technically not fraud, I dont condone out and out lying but this wouldnt be a lie and if someone did happen to have a job that you could do and offered it to you Bingo! (not that that is likely) you have a job and more money.

[RaeUK]

... I will go to every meeting and go for the jobs she tells me to ...

 

Mandy, please listen to the advice you have been given. You are on ESA. You are in WRAG. You DO NOT have to apply for any jobs nor attend job interviews nor any such nonsense. That is an absolute fact. Do not make yourself more ill because one person in the Jobcentre has no grasp whatsoever of her job. Why not telephone your DWP distribution centre for further advice? (I'm fortunate in coming under the one at Chippenham and, throughout the three plus years I have been on ESA, they are always extremely helpful). Oh, and throughout those 170 weeks I have NEVER been asked to look for work, apply for jobs. Nor would I expect to be ...

[Nystagmite]

I will write to the ESA department to ask to change groups

 

You can only do this if you meet the criteria for the support group.

[worried33]

Hello my name is Mandy Im new to this site I joined today in the hope someone can help me.

I have been claiming ESA for a year while i went for my medical which they said I was fit for work so I appealed but Iv just been turned down for that aswell. So I rang up to get Jobseekers Allowence to be told I can't claim it due to the fact I wont be activly looking for work because there's no job I can do with my health so now I have to re claim ESA..

The lady on the phone said I will be turned down again because Its the same illness as before but as I tried to tell her my illness is an ongoing problem that will not get better.

Please someone help me im so worried and confused i don't know what to do next...

Mandy

 

Its a horrible situation which I am sure many people will be in.

 

In my view the ESA assessment is designed to kick some sick people off and they have probably assumed those who get kicked off will either claim JSA even tho they cant work or just claim nothing and live of savings/family.

 

I have been in the situation before and I Also think I will be in the same situation again this year potentially even now if my new ESA claim doesnt go through.

 

When it happened to me before about 4 or so years back I had lost an IB appeal so I claimed JSA, back then my health wasnt as bad, I wasnt really well enough to work but I could at least get to the job centre to sign on (via taxi), so I did that for about 3 months and then they asked me what job related activity I am doing, I said nothing, they asked me why, I told them, then they put me back on IB and since then I failed no more medicals.

 

Obviously now things are tougher and I am no longer well enough to sign on so I dread to think what I will do, as I dont think I would get crisis loans for 6 months.

 

Some people I think dont understand that an ESA assessment that says someone is fit for work doesnt always mean that.

[worried33]

Unfortunately if the evidence doesn't relate directly to the descriptors then appeals can be easily lost. Some tribunals will go out of their way to find points they can award you, others expect it spelled out to them. Its down to the prep work before the tribunal, strong submission, pulling apart the atos medical report, providing good written evidence from medical professionals, and giving strong oral evidence.

 

why is there descriptors at all?

 

someone with a slipped disc and on morphine clearly isnt in a fit state to work, common sense should have kicked in.

 

the problem with descriptors is there is too many loopholes to declare someone fit for work, of course thats the idea but it isnt right.

[RaeUK]

Worried33, please don't worry. Whilst the ESA system is a bit of a mess, it is a bit of a mess we can work with (sort of). As I said earlier, I've been on ESA for 170 weeks so far. All of that time at the assessment rate. I have applied for ESA, failed. Tribunal, failed. Immediately reapplied for ESA, then failed. Tribunal, failed. Now on my third consecutive claim. I might not be getting all the money I need but it is, at least no less than the JSA rate without any of the hassles that go with it. My illness and how I have to live with it all but automatically nullifies the descriptors, even though all concerned - DWP and the Tribunal members - agree I'm unable to work...

[worried33]

yeah this news that the appeal delays allow someone to reclainm instantly (unless they get unlucky and for some reason have a fast appeal) is something I didnt know and a bit relieving as long as as one can always get sick notes for such long periods.