Excel Parking Court Summons - for cheque laterly cancelled as not a 'legal' parking charge - **WON**

[testament1uk]

Still no sight of any documents on this.

 

I only have the PCN and a couple of letters from Excel and Debt Collectors. I can post the PCN if that helps.

 

Their full case has not been submitted yet.

[BankFodder]

Let's see it all. Make sure that it is big enough to read

[testament1uk]

Let's see it all. Make sure that it is big enough to read

 

Letters attached to small so removed and will try again

Edited March 26, 2011 by testament1uk

[testament1uk]

Letters attached

 

attached letter pt 2

Edited March 26, 2011 by testament1uk

[dx100uk]

use this method:

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[sailor sam]

I only have the PCN and a couple of letters from Excel and Debt Collectors. I can post the PCN if that helps.

 

Their full case has not been submitted yet.

 

What about the copy of the applicant's court claim?

[testament1uk]

PCN's - Letters to follow

exce1.pdf

exce2.pdf

[testament1uk]

The Applicants claim form states "dishonoured cheque" there is no further comment, info - simply that!

 

I presume that once the track has been allocated they will file a submission prior to the hearing.

 

But being totally new to the small claims court its a learning curve for me.

[testament1uk]

To give an update..... I have recieved an allocation questionaire which I have to return to my local court. I have also received a debt collection letter from Roxburghe collections. As I received two PCN's I presume they are working on both differently. One via the cheque method....although it was originally for both....and the other via collectors.

[sailor sam]

Before completing the questionaire, have you checked with your bank to see if the cheque was actually presented? If not do so. assuming it was, highlight the following on the questionaire; You issued the cheque in payment of what you were lead to believe to be a parking 'fine' or 'penalty' and you sent it under duress after receiving a number of intimidating letters from the applicant. Upon taking advice, you discovered that a private company cannot issue a 'fine' or 'penalty' under English law and subsiquently advised the applicant that you would be withdrawing the payment. As such, you do not consider the cheque to be 'dis-honoured' as there was no intention to decieve on your part as you gave prior notice to the applicant.

 

As for the other matter ('PCN' number 2), IGNORE IT. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER SENDING A CHEQUE! They cannot be dealing with the PCN to which you issued the cheque for as it is being dealt with in this court application.

[BankFodder]

Let us know when the hearing date is set.

I'm afraid that I don't give much for your chances here. Your mistake was to have sent the cheque and this is why they are suing you. It relly has very little to do with a parking charge now.

 

On your other ticket, it is most unlikely that they will sue you because they almost never do. It isn't part of their business plan. They are on very weak ground for the imposition of penalties at this kind of level.

 

I only hope that in your case because they have already smelled your fear on the cheque case that they don't decide to have a go in court on the second one.

However, if they did take you to court on the second one, you have an excellent chance of success - so long as you don't send them the cheque.

 

If you want help on the second one, then please start a completely new thread.

 

As far as the cheque action goes, you may as well go in and do what you can. As I said before, the judge will be hard pressed to help you but your best argument is that the money paid was an unenforceable penalty as it is money which was intended to paid u0pon a breach of contract and that it has no relation to their actual losses - if indeed there was a contract and if indeed you did breach the contract.

 

There is nothing else you can argue. Concentrate on this.

 

If you haven't returned your AQ yet then you could ask the judge to give directions that they disclose their costs incurred by your alleged breach.

 

Don't forget that you could be required to pay their travel expenses if you lose

[testament1uk]

Let us know when the hearing date is set.

I'm afraid that I don't give much for your chances here. Your mistake was to have sent the cheque and this is why they are suing you. It relly has very little to do with a parking charge now.

 

On your other ticket, it is most unlikely that they will sue you because they almost never do. It isn't part of their business plan. They are on very weak ground for the imposition of penalties at this kind of level.

 

I only hope that in your case because they have already smelled your fear on the cheque case that they don't decide to have a go in court on the second one.

However, if they did take you to court on the second one, you have an excellent chance of success - so long as you don't send them the cheque.

 

If you want help on the second one, then please start a completely new thread.

 

As far as the cheque action goes, you may as well go in and do what you can. As I said before, the judge will be hard pressed to help you but your best argument is that the money paid was an unenforceable penalty as it is money which was intended to paid u0pon a breach of contract and that it has no relation to their actual losses - if indeed there was a contract and if indeed you did breach the contract.

 

There is nothing else you can argue. Concentrate on this.

 

If you haven't returned your AQ yet then you could ask the judge to give directions that they disclose their costs incurred by your alleged breach.

 

Don't forget that you could be required to pay their travel expenses if you lose

 

My allocation questionaire has been submitted - The courts have my defence and counter claim which offsets the cheque action 100%. As yet Excel have not filed their allocation questionaire. The final date for submission is 6th April. I will post an update when I get a hearing date.

[sailor sam]

Did you find out if they actually presented the cheque for payment?

[BankFodder]

Well if they haven't presented the cheque, then there is no cause of action.

 

If they haven't filed their AQ - then that is all grist to your mill.

 

Don't send any reminders. Don't do anything. Just make sure that you do what you are meant to do but don't send them reminders. the more poorly they litigate, the better t is for you

[asmodeus]

If they did present the cheque what date did they do this as it may well be they paid it in AFTER they received your letter

 

They may be playing the last minute filing trick i.e. making certain their claim details arrives on the last day of submission in which case all you need to do is get any counter claim to points raised in this to the Court ASAP with a polite letter outlining that they have done this deliberately in the hope you will not be allowed to defend yourself on these. Have had this happen to me and it counted against the claiment as everything is meant to be fair and above board.

 

It is small claims and all the case is meant to be in writing before the day so there are no surprises in the court. This is in a room and relatively informal where each side can have their say and I agree that your best chance is to play on their intimidating documents which looked very official and deceived you into believing they were an official PCN and that fearful of the consequences they outlined caused you to pay an amount that far exceeded their actual losses

[testament1uk]

If they did present the cheque what date did they do this as it may well be they paid it in AFTER they received your letter

 

They may be playing the last minute filing trick i.e. making certain their claim details arrives on the last day of submission in which case all you need to do is get any counter claim to points raised in this to the Court ASAP with a polite letter outlining that they have done this deliberately in the hope you will not be allowed to defend yourself on these. Have had this happen to me and it counted against the claiment as everything is meant to be fair and above board.

 

It is small claims and all the case is meant to be in writing before the day so there are no surprises in the court. This is in a room and relatively informal where each side can have their say and I agree that your best chance is to play on their intimidating documents which looked very official and deceived you into believing they were an official PCN and that fearful of the consequences they outlined caused you to pay an amount that far exceeded their actual losses

 

Thanks for your comments. I have confirmed with my bank that the cheque was presented in 1st December 2010 which was a week after they recieved my letter advising them I had cancelled the cheque. Today is the last day for submission and I will check tommorow to see if the courts have recieved their AQ.

[BankFodder]

I wasn't aware that you gave them notice of cancellation before they presented the cheque.

 

I think that this is the factor which may make all the difference to the judge's ability to help you.

 

Make sure that you take any written evidence of this with you

[GCR]

I have been following this thread closely and think I have spotted something that may have been missed.

 

Under Sections48 and 49 of the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 an action for dishonour of a cheque can only occur if the payee gives a "notice of dishonour". Although there is no set format it needs to state clearly that the cheque has been dishonoured and not paid.

 

Query whether Excel have given such a notice at all. Could testament post up a copy of any letter Excel sent that could constitute such a notice?

 

However see also s49(12):

 

"The notice may be given as soon as the bill is dishonoured and must be given within a reasonable time thereafter.

 

In the absence of special circumstances notice is not deemed to have been given within a reasonable time, unless—

 

(a) where the person giving and the person to receive notice reside in the same place, the notice is given or sent off in time to reach the latter on the day after the dishonour of the bill.

 

(b)where the person giving and the person to receive notice reside in different places, the notice is sent off on the day after the dishonour of the bill, if there be a post at a convenient hour on that day, and if there be no such post on that day then by the next post thereafter."

 

Basically to obtain judgement Excel would have had to have posted their notice of dishonour immediately, ie. the same or next day. I strongly doubt whether that was done.

 

If this essential requirement has not been followed then the claim must fail.

 

See the 1882 Act here:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/45-46/61

 

Testament, if this checks out, and others confirm, be ready to amend your defence accordingly.

[BankFodder]

What a brilliant thing to have spotted.

 

Produce the 1882 Act at court as part of your argument.

[Surfer01]

Interesting thread and hope it goes well for the OP.

[sailor sam]

Bit like sending a default notice then! Surely a court application can only be made following such notification?

[testament1uk]

I have been following this thread closely and think I have spotted something that may have been missed.

 

Under Sections48 and 49 of the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 an action for dishonour of a cheque can only occur if the payee gives a "notice of dishonour". Although there is no set format it needs to state clearly that the cheque has been dishonoured and not paid.

 

Query whether Excel have given such a notice at all. Could testament post up a copy of any letter Excel sent that could constitute such a notice?

 

However see also s49(12):

 

"The notice may be given as soon as the bill is dishonoured and must be given within a reasonable time thereafter.

 

In the absence of special circumstances notice is not deemed to have been given within a reasonable time, unless—

 

(a) where the person giving and the person to receive notice reside in the same place, the notice is given or sent off in time to reach the latter on the day after the dishonour of the bill.

 

(b)where the person giving and the person to receive notice reside in different places, the notice is sent off on the day after the dishonour of the bill, if there be a post at a convenient hour on that day, and if there be no such post on that day then by the next post thereafter."

 

Basically to obtain judgement Excel would have had to have posted their notice of dishonour immediately, ie. the same or next day. I strongly doubt whether that was done.

 

If this essential requirement has not been followed then the claim must fail.

 

See the 1882 Act here:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/45-46/61

 

Testament, if this checks out, and others confirm, be ready to amend your defence accordingly.

 

I will check through the letters and post a copy of any such notice. As of today 7/4/2011 they have not submitted an allocation questionaire which was due in for 6/4/2011.

[testament1uk]

Here are the letters from excel parking. Just to clarify the cheque had the PCN numbers for both penalties written on the back. The cheque was declined by my bank after they had recieved notification from me of the cancellation as their letter proves. In order for me to establish when the "dishonour notice" was sent I will need to ask the court to direct them to supply evidence of the date on which their bank advised them that my cheque had been stopped.....

excelp1.pdf

excelp.pdf

Edited April 7, 2011 by testament1uk

[dx100uk]

cant read postage stamps

 

use this method [there is not limit on CAG]

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[testament1uk]

cant read postage stamps

 

use this method [there is not limit on CAG]

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

 

The comment about "postage stamps" brightened up my evening and I spent a good while chuckling over this very apt comment. Thank you, wonderful humour. I have redone the images as advise and reloaded. Thanks for the advice and jest!