HFO.......Why are they so horrid.

[FORMISTER]

Edited

[FORMISTER]

Yes, put the missing details up, they may be important

[coledog]

Just seen reply from Coledog....so the CCA route to HFO would be the best thing to start with??

 

I would, just my view, as the account was not put in dispute with MS and lets see what HFO come back with. It may be the same document and then you can challenge it as it is an application form. They may not locate it at all.

[FORMISTER]

I don't feel strongly about it either way. If the agreements unenforcable, it's unenforacable. If a DCA thinks they can enforce it , they will take you to court whether you have sent an account in dispute letter or not. They will state they have fullfilled their requirements. Then it's up to the Judge to decide.

 

As you have already sent a CCA to the OC and received the results, a CCA to HFO will only act as a delaying tactic. Although you will receive a current statement of account.

 

It's entirely up to you

[coledog]

Good points Formister, I don't mind either way. The important thing is to challenge this and the appalling behaviour of HFO.

 

Tracyd if you can scan the whole form it would be great

[PriorityOne]

 

She sent one back stating that The CC Regulations 1983 stated that an agreement suppiled should be a true copy Regulation 3(2) states that a copy may omit certain information such as the signature box and signatures and date.

 

It was then passed to Credit Solutions, then HFO and thats when the harrassment started. I dont know why I arranged a payment plan but I do not have hardly any paperwork from HFO certainly no NOA. It was then passed to Turnbull Rutherford. The orginal debt as of 18th April 2007 was £ 4332.41. When Turnbull wrote to me in Sept 2007 it was £6909.72 and as of today it stands at £7630.28. Thats £3297.87 in interest in guessing..

 

Im grateful for any advise. Should I CCA HFO and see what they have for starters.

Thank you. Im trying not to worry but thats prob why I am writing this post at 02.50am.

 

This does not sound like an enforceable Agreement at all....

 

 

I don't feel strongly about it either way. If the agreements unenforcable, it's unenforacable. If a DCA thinks they can enforce it , they will take you to court whether you have sent an account in dispute letter or not. They will state they have fullfilled their requirements. Then it's up to the Judge to decide.

 

As you have already sent a CCA to the OC and received the results, a CCA to HFO will only act as a delaying tactic. Although you will receive a current statement of account.

 

It's entirely up to you

 

Formister is right; it is entirely up to you how you proceed with this, although personally, I'd be inclined to submit a fresh CCA request after this amount of time passing with you acknowledging the account with payments.

 

Should this then end up in court (which I doubt), it would look better on your part. It also makes the paper trail from now on much clearer for you and for us.

 

[FORMISTER]

I think then Tracy, for the purpose of clarity you should submit a new CCA request to HFO. As it will only cost you £1 plus postage, there is no harm in doing so.

 

I think CD, P1 and Myself are in agreement that what was provided under your last CCA request would be very difficult to enforce in court and HFO are unlikely to try.

 

However, I would like to point out that not paying, even if the agreement is unenforcable, does not mean that they cannot continue to update your credit report. So bear this in mind.

 

Saying that, if you had sent a CCA in 2007, you must of defaulted sometime before, so the default can't be far off of dropping off your credit report anyway

[PriorityOne]

Make sure you do not sign the request; just initial it or use block capitals. Send it to whoever is currently chasing you for payment and make sure it goes off by rec. delivery...

 

[dadofholly]

Tracy - would also consider if you should be paying them anything. As yet they have never sent you any proof they actually own the debt. Have you received a Notice of Assignement?

 

Am sure they will already have marked your credit file so not much benefit for you there in continuing to pay.

 

You say you sent off for an SAR in 2007, did MS tell you who, and when the debt was to?

 

If not would suggest you get in touch with them to find out.

[tracyd]

Thank you for your help. I will send off a CCA request to HFO and see what they have. I will carry on paying the £20. I will post up the document i got from Morgan Stanley asap. My router is not allowing me onto the net....so I am doing this off my phone.

Thank you again.

[DonkeyB]

The point is that you are paying to the company you were led to believe owned this account. If you can establish that they have no right to collect, that’s when to stop. Looks best in court, if it gets there!

[tracyd]

Finally got back on the internet:-D.....so today I CCA'd HFO just to see what they have. Warned hubby not to speak to anyone and put the phone down.

 

I have also uploaded what I received from Morgan Stanley when I requested my CCA. On the back of the document it has written on in pen. I certify this is a true copy of an orginal document.

 

Please have a look and tell me what you think. Hope I have done it right this time.

 

Regards

Tracyd

Edited February 15, 2011 by tracyd

[coledog]

Tracyd

 

You will need to re-edit your post and delete the doc as some of the details on the form (page 1) are still visible. See if you can cover them better and re-post.

 

It looks like an application form that only includes some of the T&Cs.

[tracyd]

OH BUGGER!!!! I have posted up the wrong one.....Im still new to posting up docs and obviously rubbish at it....thanks for your patience. I have also put up the NOA I got from HFO

HFO.pdf

T&C.pdf

CCA (2).pdf

[tracyd]

Just reading through other threads with HFO and Turnbull Rutherford, they really are a shower of s*ite arent they. Cant believe some of the stunts they pull.

[DonkeyB]

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

[Bazooka Boo]

CCA isn't even worth hamster bedding!

[FORMISTER]

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

 

DB, everyone knows your a renound supporter of HFO and can often be found sipping snapps at the xmas party's

[PriorityOne]

Hang on a minute folks....

 

If those t&cs are part of the same signature document, then this looks like an Agreement to me. Check out the figures in the t&c doc....

 

If it's a microfiche (which it looks like)..... you could challenge it on the basis that it's a copy of a copy.... but it's hard to say what response you'll get at this stage.

[coledog]

As we are finding out, there is more to challenging HFO and their right to collect the sum they claim than the credit agreement. It is only part of the story

Edited February 16, 2011 by coledog

[coledog]

Actually looking at this again, the T&Cs are only part of - it actually says:

 

'below are some of the conditions in the MSDW Card Conditions. The definitions and other conditions refered to are set out in full in your copy of the MSDW conditions'

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2011 by coledog

[DonkeyB]

... which clearly were not present at the time of signing. Why else would there be an extract? Another blast to the ankles...

[broken arrow]

You can argue that the Terms and Conditions are not there, as those are the financial and related conditions, the prescribed terms are there, but point 2 credit limit, does not give an actual credit limit.

 

From memory, Morgan Stanley changed there minimum payment from 2% to 3 %, would that be varying the agreement.

[tracyd]

Right well just answered the phone to someone from HFO (didnt know it was them). They stated that they had received a letter and it had not been signed. I replied

"It doesnt need to be signed." (had typed name as per advice from here) They were clearly not happy by this and said

"Why does it not need to be signed"?

"Who has put you up to this"!!!!!!!!!!

I said please put everything in writing and hung up.

I guess they got my CCA request.

 

Thanks again for your advice.

x

[DonkeyB]

Was it from the Indian call centre or did it sound like a UK voice? Any number showing?