cabot - citicard impending court action

[AndyOrch]

None compliance to the CPR does not affect the AQ process. Andy should file and issue directions for disclosure

and refer in " other " section, their non compliance and responses.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

Got a response back from Morgans today, two days before I have to submit my aq to the court, which I suspect they delayed on purpose.

They have replied with their aq and also to my lame CPR18 request.

They still haven’t supplied me with a copy of the CCA and a full statement of account going back to when the account was opened.

Attached is my defence letter to the court, my CPR18 request and Morgans response to both. Section GR3 in Morgans letter contains a list of citicard statements going back to Jan 2009, wheras the account was opened in 2003.

Cabot also seem to have included some interest charges.

Morgans have included/anticipated their costs in their aq, which seem excessive, should I be including my costs in my aq?

Any advice of where I go from here and how I complete my aq

rgds

andy_l

response from morgans 15032011.doc

CPR18_morgans_sent_template.doc

defence_response.doc

[vjohn82]

Ohhh... so the Part 18 Request (the "lame" one) seems to have worked...

 

Funny that ;-)

 

Anyway, you now have some pretty impressive documentation over and above what they would usually provide. You now have it in writing that they are sourcing the original credit agreement and default notice both of which need to be accurate to the letter of the law for them to proceed. A failing in either one should render their claim well and truly @@@@@@@.

 

And they've also offered a 1 month stay as I said they would (which will have to be increased because they won't get their documentation in time - they never do). Even if the documentation does arrive post it up here and we'll see what holes are in it.

 

VJ

[vjohn82]

Was this account close to being statute barred at all? Looks like they have been having trouble calculating the last payment date according to their docs. It also references "penalty interest" - could be worth exploring.

 

£4000 for their costs is ridiculous and disproportionate.

 

Have not complied with the Pre-Action Protocols either? Could be an unfair relationship issue under s.140, a breach of the CSA/OFT guidelines etc... lots going on here.

[the_shadow]

Ohhh... so the Part 18 Request (the "lame" one) seems to have worked...

 

Funny that ;-)

 

Whilst its true they have responded... and I have to say above and beyond what is normally expected in a response, I believe we were pointing out that the CPR18 couldnt in all seriousness be enforced in court.. as it is its achieved its purpose however that I concede.

 

Andy, read the log carefully and see if anything sticks out with wrong dates etc etc. Note their predatory methods are shown throughout, as soon as they buy the account the land registry search goes in.. home owner so court action starts.

 

S.

[vjohn82]

Whilst its true they have responded... and I have to say above and beyond what is normally expected in a response, I believe we were pointing out that the CPR18 couldnt in all seriousness be enforced in court.. as it is its achieved its purpose however that I concede.

 

Andy, read the log carefully and see if anything sticks out with wrong dates etc etc. Note their predatory methods are shown throughout, as soon as they buy the account the land registry search goes in.. home owner so court action starts.

 

S.

 

9.5/10 times a court directed Part 18 request is never needed. I've never seen one case on CAG in my 2 years which has ever needed this process. Besides, to enforce a Part 18 request in court you can pick out the parts which are more likely to succeed than others and leave out the ones which might seem frivolous but are nonetheless interesting if you manage to get hold of them.

 

In this case, as with every Cabot case I have handled, the tactics are for all to see. Predatory towards those with properties and, as evidenced by the AQ, completely oblivious to Pre-Action Protocols.

 

No credit agreement before launching litigation... no default notice before launching in litigation... no pre-action protocols...

 

If, and I say "if", there is no compliant CCA or DN then this is going to be a very interesting case and one which I feel will go in the OP's favour and lead to not only a discontinuance but some costs thrown into the bargain.

 

Cabot are not going to be hoping that a compliant CCA is found because they have referred it to the OC...

 

As soon as the CCA and DN turn up get them on here ASAP... if they are non compliant I would strongly advise filing a counterclaim.

[gazhodge1981]

Hi All, sorry I have picked this up half way through.

I had a case last year with cabot and won

You need to be careful with the no credit agreement as they will use Carey vs HSBC (for me the DJ agreed that they did not need to produce it as you would have had to agree to it to get the card)

When you are in court make sure they provide a true copy of the deeds of assignment and not just a copy. Make sure your name and details is on it and not just details blanked out. (make them prove it is yours)

The way I won was that Cabot claimed the full balance of the card and they did not provide or have a DN, in there witness statement they said they didn't need to send one but

under section 87 (b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or (CCA 1974)

the DJ ruled that because they were claiming the full amount then a default notice would have needed to have been supplied and as they had admitted they hadn't in the witness statement and they were claiming the full amount owed on the credit card and not the minimum payment (the arrears) the case was dismissed.

If they don't have a DN then you need to point this out to the DJ and that as they are claiming the full amount they have to provide one.

Please forgive me if things have moved on in the last 10 months

[vjohn82]

The Carey judgement can be dismissed in this case and in any claim where you have been taken to court by your creditor because Carey was taking their creditor to court for failing to provide a CCA under s.78. This is not the case here and the burden of proof is now with Cabot.

 

DN is relevant of course as ever.

[andy_l]

thanks for your help vj.....I appreciate it was a real wodge of paperwork to read thru.

I shall be completing my aq today with a view to delivering it to my local court.

Should I just complete my aq as is, noting non-compliance with CPR as advised, or should I be attaching any relevant info that my help my case.

I get the feeling that morgans should be given enough rope.................

Also I have a few NOTICE OF DEFAULT SUMS ISSUED ON STATEMENT letters from citicard, would this constitute a DN?

I can see no such DN from morgans in my correspondence file.

rds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Here's how I served my AQ on HFO/Turnbull Rutherford in a recent case. The Judge agreed with all of the directions; as soon as HFO knew what they had to do they discontinued.

 

Amend to suit your circumstances.

vjohn82 Draft Order AQ.doc

vjohn82 Section G AQ.doc

AQ Help.pdf

[andy_l]

Hi vj

I have been sent aq form N150 to complete by the court, has this superceded form N149 (your example).

Should I complete form N150 or use N149 instead ?

rgds

andy_l

[andy_l]

Hi vj

I have been sent form aq N150 by the copurt to complete, should I use this form or use form N149 (small claims track as per your example)

I think I should use N150 as the claim is for more than 5K, but I can still send the attachments as per your examples?

rgds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Pretty much the same to be honest.

[andy_l]

vj, can I run it past you before I submit it to the court, just to make sure I havent put my foot in it.

rgds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Course you can mate.

[andy_l]

hi vj

Attached is my aq for a fast track.

In section A I have mentioned that I have previously made a settlement offer without predujice, which signifies that I've made an attempt to settle out of court, should I state that this offer has now been removed or not?

I assume your templates for other info and directions still stand for submitting my fast track aq.

rgds

andy_l

myaq.doc

[vjohn82]

Change Section A t0:

 

Q1 Yes

Q2 Yes

 

This makes up part of the negotiation process to avoid costs.

[andy_l]

thanks vj

I'm now going thru your template for other information and at first glance I think some of it wont apply to me

rgds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Some of it definitely won't!

[andy_l]

Not sure about my section 1 of other info, it does mention that the account will remain with Clarity.

Can I use that ?

rgds

andy_l

notice of assignment.doc

[andy_l]

Hi vj

I have constructed my response to go with my aq, could I asdk you to give it the once over to make sure I havent dropped a clanger.

rgds

andy_l

andy Draft.doc

[vjohn82]

Back from picking kids up in 1/2 hr... will look then mate.

[andy_l]

hi vj

any chance of looking at my aq attachments as I have to drop it off today, if not, no matter I'll go with what I've got ?

rgds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Looks good to me

[andy_l]

thanks vj