cabot - citicard impending court action

[andy_l]

now i'm confused, I have said it is CitiCards in my CPR18 letter to morgans

[coledog]

Sorry I should have said 'claimant', having a bad day (thank you again andyorc).

Cabot are mentioned in the top of the letter as the claimant which is fine. The 'original creditor' in 3b should be CitiCards so I think that you have completed it correctly, despite me!

[andy_l]

thanks coledog.......citicards it is...and that's what got sent

rgds

andy_l

[vjohn82]

Glad that's sorted lol...

 

There is a distinction obviously with regards to the information we are trying to obtain. You will receive a reply stating that they are going to contact the original creditor to obtain the info requested in the Pt18 request. More than likely they will also offer a stay on proceedings as the data retrieval will take some time. If they respond saying it will take some time, we'll write back with an admonishment ;-)7

 

Yes Morgans DO troll these forums. This is your favour to a certain extent (I find anyway). When I was in litigation with HFO they used some of my forum postings in court. I stated to the Judge that if HFO wished to rely upon that evidence then equal weight should be given to the accusations about the company found within my comments; the Judge agreed to the extent that he believed HFO knew the weaknesses in their case were mounting up yet decided to continue even in the fact of my offers for a mutual arrangement on costs.

 

They ended up paying me money. So it can play into your hands that they are monitoring it. The longer it goes on, and the more flaws in the case, the more rope they are being given in the courtroom.

[andy_l]

thanks vj, I'm starting to feel a lot more confident about all this.

rgds

andy_l

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

I've had reply from Citicards in respect of the SAr I requested in January.

Basically they have only acknowledged that they received my £1 request under the 1974 consumer credit act.

And they have also supplied a list of statements only going back as far as 2005, ie an incomplete list.

NO other information was supplied in their reply.

As far as I can see they have not supplied all the information that I requested.

Any comments please, should I write to them again?

Attached is a copy of my SAR request and their reply covering letter.

SAR_sent_received.doc

[nicklea]

Hi Guys

I've had reply from Citicards in respect of the SAr I requested in January.

Basically they have only acknowledged that they received my £1 request under the 1974 consumer credit act.

 

I'm a bit confused why you say this as in their reply they clearly refer to the Data Protection Act - have you uploaded the correct letter that they sent you?

 

And they have also supplied a list of statements only going back as far as 2005, ie an incomplete list.

NO other information was supplied in their reply.

As far as I can see they have not supplied all the information that I requested.

Any comments please, should I write to them again?

Attached is a copy of my SAR request and their reply covering letter.

 

I would suggest giving them a call and telling them that you have received their letter but what has been mentioned in their letter ie personal data provided as part of the application process etc has not actually been sent.

 

I would suggest that this is the quickest way of getting this information.

 

By the way, what they say in the last paragraph of their letter is correct and so they may not necessarily send you copies of actual documents.

[the_shadow]

By the way, what they say in the last paragraph of their letter is correct and so they may not necessarily send you copies of actual documents.

 

Agreed, the data protection act is for information a company holds on you, not the specific documents although you have to question why someone would uplift all the information from a document and put onto an a4 sheet of paper and send it when they could just send a photocopy

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Hi Guys

I've had reply from Citicards in respect of the SAr I requested in January.

Basically they have only acknowledged that they received my £1 request under the 1974 consumer credit act.

And they have also supplied a list of statements only going back as far as 2005, ie an incomplete list.

NO other information was supplied in their reply.

As far as I can see they have not supplied all the information that I requested.

Any comments please, should I write to them again?

Attached is a copy of my SAR request and their reply covering letter.

 

Hi,

 

Are you sure they didnt supply a single sheet of A4 with all your personal information on it? name/address/bank details etc etc, this is what they are referring to as your personal information given during the application process.

 

S.

[andy_l]

oh dear.....it seems to me that whatever letter I send to someone, I never get the reply I want.

Surely if CitiCards hold the original CCA then they should send me a copy of it as requested in my SAR.

[andy_l]

I sent a CPR31.14 request to morgans which was basically ignored, so I have now sent a CPR18 request to morgans and will await their response.

[andy_l]

CitiCards did send a single A4 sheet of personal data and also photocopies of each monthly state going back to 2005.

But I was expecting a photocopy of the original CCA as well.

[the_shadow]

CitiCards did send a single A4 sheet of personal data and also photocopies of each monthly state going back to 2005.

But I was expecting a photocopy of the original CCA as well.

 

You would think that but as Nicklea has correctly pointed out you have a right to the info not the actual doc.

 

S.

[andy_l]

oh well..looks like I've wasted my time requesting a SAR from CitiCards and £10.

hopefully morgans will supply or not supply the information I need from my CPR18 request.

[the_shadow]

oh well..looks like I've wasted my time requesting a SAR from CitiCards and £10.

hopefully morgans will supply or not supply the information I need from my CPR18 request.

 

Whilst it may seem that initially, the manual intervention notes should contain all the key dates on the account, dates letters were sent, phone calls made etc etc.. these dates COULD prove critical further down the line.

 

S.

[andy_l]

thanks S

[coledog]

Documentation from Citi is sadly lacking but what they have sent will be useful, even if only to show how little they have. Therefore it is not a waste.

 

Did the letter they sent indicate why they have not included anything about a credit agreement? Sometimes they argue that this requires a CCA request. Also, I do not think that the 40 days are up yet so they could send more.

[andy_l]

coledog, as per their attached letter, they simply state that 'terms & conditions' fall outside the defintion of personal data, whether a CCA is definded under 'terms & conditions' I dont know.

I would have thought that any information they hold about me is fair game under the data protection act, but then I'm no legal buff.

It does seem that whatever I request from someone, they always seem to wriggle out of it.

rgds

andy_l

[the_shadow]

T&C are clearly not personal to you as they apply to all cardholders and hence why they dont send them as part of the SAR.

 

The data protection act states they have to provide all information they hold on you, it doesnt state how they send it or in what format, just that the data has to be sent. Now we know it would be easier for them to just send a copy of your application/agreement as its less time intrusive but Citcards dont like to do that and transpose the details onto a sheet of A4. They've done this also for me and other ex-account holders on here. The crunch is that Citi do not like giving out their agreements/applications to ANYONE.

 

The t&c of the account should be sent to you if you have done a s78 request to Cabot.

 

Depending on what you have asked for in your CPR18 this may disclose if Cabot even hold an application/agreement, I suspect not. But if they do then a CPR31.14 request can follow the response from Cabot. If they ignore both CPR requests then you can either wait and bring this to the courts attention at the hearing or seek an application of disclosure.

 

S.

[andy_l]

I havent actually sent a CPR 31.14 or CPR18 to cabot.

I've sent a SAR to citicards.

I've sent a CPR31.14 to morgans which they basically ignored.

I've sent a CPR18 to morgans of which I am awaiting their response.

I have written these letters using the standard templates as provided by people in the forum.

Should I be writing to cabot as well?

rgds

andy_l

[andy_l]

attached is the CPR18 I sent to morgans

CPR18_morgans_sent_template.doc

[the_shadow]

I havent actually sent a CPR 31.14 or CPR18 to cabot.

I've sent a SAR to citicards.

I've sent a CPR31.14 to morgans which they basically ignored.

I've sent a CPR18 to morgans of which I am awaiting their response.

I have written these letters using the standard templates as provided by people in the forum.

Should I be writing to cabot as well?

rgds

andy_l

 

Morgans for this purpose are Cabot or at least their representatives so where I've send send to cabots, sending to morgans is the same, sorry my bad.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

attached is the CPR18 I sent to morgans

 

Ok, I'm going to be blunt here... what you have sent is a re-badged SAR, it is not a proper CPR18 letter, if you were to request a court order for disclosure based on the letter sent it would not imho be given.

 

A CPR18 letter is for seeking information only, not for requesting copies of documents which is CPR31.14.

 

I think they may ignore this letter too as it will not be binding on them under cpr, at best they will send some of the docs but not the complete list you wish.

 

S.

[andy_l]

looks like I'm not going to get the info I want.

I have sent them a CPR31.14 which they basically ignored and looks like they'll do the same with my CPR18 request.

It would appear that I won't be able to construct my defence properly without this info, other than the fact that as no one I've written to has supplied me with it, I guess my defence would be along the lines that morgans can't prove the debt.

Unfortunately if they do have this information, I guess they will be able to prove in their favour.

It does seem to leave me in the dark.

rgds

andy_l

[coledog]

No - not Cabot as Morgans are now acting for them so you have done the right thing. Did you send a CCA request to Cabot at all? I cannot remember without re-reading the thread.

 

All I got through a CCA request involving a Citi Card account was a recon set of T and Cs but that was from the DCA, who got it from Citi. My SAR request to Citi stated that they did not have an 'Application Form' although I had not actually requested one and they sent no part of any credit agreement.

 

Remember that Cabot/Morgans are in the same boat as you and will have to rely on Citi for any documents they need!