police arrest but not charged!!

[gal]

hi,

am writing on behalf of my friend who is very distressed.He went out with friends recently for a night out.He was then arrested by the police and kept overnight in the cell to sober up.He was released next morning wihtout any charge.He is studying paramedics and worried about CRB checks.Will this show on crb check? He was only arrested after he refused to leave the area? The bouncer twisted his shoulder and so he reported that to police and instead he was locked up.He was fingerprinted and photographed.Other than that ,he was not involved in any violent behaviour.He was in full senses eventhough bit tipsy.

 

please help.

gal

[rebel11]

Hi gal

 

It might be worth contacting http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/contact_us.aspx Although he was arrested he was not charged, so no conviction. though the arrest would be Recorded. I would ring CRB for clarification.

[andydd]

I'm under the impression that only chargeable opffences show up on a CRB check and even then certain offences dont show if they are 'spent' or depending on your age.

 

There is an enhanced CRB check which may show up more though.

 

I wish the info about CRB checks and information help about you by police was clearer.

 

It is possible to do a SAR request to the police to get all the info. they hold about you.

 

Andy

[adridude]

hi,

am writing on behalf of my friend who is very distressed.He went out with friends recently for a night out.He was then arrested by the police and kept overnight in the cell to sober up.He was released next morning wihtout any charge.He is studying paramedics and worried about CRB checks.Will this show on crb check? He was only arrested after he refused to leave the area? The bouncer twisted his shoulder and so he reported that to police and instead he was locked up.He was fingerprinted and photographed.Other than that ,he was not involved in any violent behaviour.He was in full senses eventhough bit tipsy.

 

please help.

gal

 

No record is kept if only a caution was issues. CRB only indicates convictions. Keeping someone in prison over night is more a "babysitting" experience rather than a police confrontation.

 

If he's never been to prison or in the nick with no convictions before, I strongly suggest that he contests the taking of any DNA and/or fingerprints in this detainment.

[andydd]

Although an arrest with only a caution wouldnt show on a CRB (how about an E-CRB ?), surely the info. is still actually help by the police, I wonder what a SAR request would show ?

 

Andy

[adridude]

CRB = Criminal Record Bureau...

 

No crime, no criminal record.. If there is one, I'd question the skills of the English governments English skills ^^

[andydd]

CRB = Criminal Record Bureau...

 

No crime, no criminal record.. If there is one, I'd question the skills of the English governments English skills ^^

 

Not quite true.

 

The following is from the CRB site..

 

What information is available through a CRB check?

 

A CRB check can provide access to a range of different types of information, such as, information:

• held on the Police National Computer (PNC), including Convictions, Cautions,Reprimands and Warnings in England and Wales, and most of the relevant convictions in Scotland and Northern Ireland may also be included. (The CRB reserves the right to add new data sources;
  
• held by local police forces and other agencies, relating to relevant non-conviction information;
  
• held on lists maintained by the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA);
  
• other data sources such as British Transport Police (new window); the Royal Military Police (new window); the Ministry of Defence Police (new window);
  
• Scottish Criminal Records Office (SCRO) (new window) - if you have spent any time living in Scotland.
  

(http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/about_crb/what_information_is_available.aspx)

 

As you can see they refer to 'warnings, cautions and reprimands' and also 'non-conviction' information. This may depend on what job you are applying for and whether a CRB or Enhanced CRB is required.

 

Andy

[jackieandwayne]

And I can tell you from experience that if you have an enhanced CRB done, then this probably WILL show up from the info gained from "local level". I suppose I shall have to explain which I don;t like doing but will do to help you.

 

When I worked for the LA, I had to clear a garage of belongings a year after an eviction. The previous month I had been given permission (they actually told me to do this!) to take some items of furntiure from another garage being cleared as I was then destitute and had nothing, not even a chair to sit on! All of the stuff had been held for ages and it was going to the tip. It helped me greatly. So, when I cleared this garage, I found a very old teaset (250 year old FBB (Worcester its known as now!)). No way was that going to the tip, it was of historical importance. So I kept it. At my mum's, stored away safely. Then my spiteful ex-partner told the employer, and they were so incensed that they actually had me arrested, and it was awful. Finger printed, dna'd, blah blah blah. The police (worse because I worked with them!) just bailed me, and extending it again and again, because they could not decide if I had stolen anything - they said it was a grey area. The pressure I was under was awful so in the end I stupidly accepted an "adult caution" just to bring it all to an end. So, now whenever I have an enhanced CRB it of course comes up but it isn't very nice as it suggests that I received a caution for theft!

 

The worst thing is, looking back now I should have let it run its course because the property belonged to nobody so I couldn;t have stolen it! The people it came from could not be traced, nor could any next of kin. At the time I took it home it had not reaached the tip, therefore it did not belong to the tip. It never at anytime became the property of the Council, or rather the police and Council could never decide if it was their property. The officer dealing with it admitted to me it was a grey area of law.

 

And, I managed to get another job very quickly (head hunted almost) despite this CRB. This has shown up on the last two enhanced CRB's so that must be six years now.

 

I still have the pottery, they weren't interested in recovering it. I think it was all to get rid of me at a time when redundancies were looming and I was the longest serving and oldest HO! Trouble is, now I'd like to do some voluntary work to help people suffering with PTSD like me, but me and my councellor know I won't be allowed because they will CRB me, and that'll be the end of it. All because of a tea set, which was going to be smashed to smithereens if I hadn;t rescued it. Months before I had suggested that we sold items we found in garages, houses etc, in cases where the were rent arrears. But no, they couldn;t be bothered could they? Imagine how frustrated they must have been when they discovered the worth of that tea set. But all bar my ex-partner they would never have known - and I don;t believe I did any wrong really.

 

Well, that's my experience of CRB, it didn't stop me working in my then chosen profession, but it is going to prevent me from freely being able to help people with PTSD.

[Cinammon]

I haven't posted on here before but I have some experience in this situation. I was cautioned for shop lifting 10 years ago at age 16 and that still shows up on my enhanced CRB checks so I have to explain the situation every time I have an interview. I suppose it depends if he was cautioned or not.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Cinammon

[jackieandwayne]

I caught the tail end of some programme last night, involving a young lady half way through a college course to work with children. She wasn't CRB'd at the start of the course, and when they got round to it, stuff came up from when she was a child! Apparently she nearly lost her place. Did anyone else see this? Because the other thing that I caught, was that she was able to continue her course, but I didn't manage to catch how it got sorted out.

[zippygbr]

in Answer to Jackieanwayne's post - it's organisations not the CRB or Central Government that decides what impact stuff on a CRB has , if anything over declaring not convictions but an admission of guilt to be safe ( e.g. FPNs and other 'administrative' resolutions to charges.)

 

you do not 'Pass' or 'Fail' a CRB 'check'

[borisbeaver]

As a paramedic, your friend will certainly have to undertake an enhanced-CRB as there is the prospect of working with children and vulnerable adults.

[ScarletPimpernel]

As a paramedic, your friend will certainly have to undertake an enhanced-CRB as there is the prospect of working with children and vulnerable adults.

 

I suspect that OP's friend needs to look at how to explain this incident to a prospective employer. Ambulance staff need to demonstrate high personal standards and judgement. This case shows a serious lack of both.

[adridude]

held by local police forces and other agencies, relating to relevant non-conviction information;

 

If there was no conviction, surely the police don't need the information as you aren't guilty of anything.

 

Can't you request that all information pertaining to yourself is removed under the DPA?

[andydd]

If there was no conviction, surely the police don't need the information as you aren't guilty of anything.

 

Can't you request that all information pertaining to yourself is removed under the DPA?

 

I dont belive so, in their defence companies that use CRB checks would say something along the lines of 'Mr X has been arrested 5 times outside a local school, Police suspect he is upto no good, but have arrested him but with no evidence have released him. Mr X then applies for a Nursery School job, should a CRB check show, he is clean as a whistle or despite no actual charges, he has appeared on the police radar' ?

 

The issue of what data including fingerprints (of innocent people) has of course been the issue of various court actions, including i believe the European Court of Human Rights, I'm not quite sure what the outcome was though.

 

Andy

[adridude]

I remember someone here in UK had their DNA data removed from a database as they were arrested for drunk and disorderly outside a pub and a DNA swab isnt warranted as he had no other record nor indication that he was a danger.

 

I believe he wont that... Don't quote me tho.

[SueP1944]

Oh, a post I can actually say something about! Aren't I a lucky lady.

 

This always comes up in conversation in our family. My husband, the one and only member of the family that has a criminal record!!

 

It's not funny really as it has caused some problems over his working life.

 

when he was 21 (1970) like all young lads, he spent the whole day in his local drinking (from 3 - 6 behind closed doors!!) Well time came for all of them to go to the club for the night.

Anyhow, at about 3am he became separated from his friends and feeling a little worse for wear decided to sleep it off in the gutter!!

 

Surprise Surprise, he was arrested, taken to the Police Station and released the following day after being charged with being 'drunk and incapable' Went to Magistrates - all very quiet, shy and embarrassed. He was fined £5.

 

Having said all of that, he took on the position of Chair of the local primary school PTA. They checked him out and he had to explain to the Head and the school manager as to why he had a criminal record and for them to decide if he was able to be around young children.

 

His face was a picture when he came home. puffing & huffing about PC gone wrong!!!!

[Sidewinder]

Sadly very true and has caught a lot of people out - even when applying for Visas etc.

 

Whilst a standard CRB will only reveal convictions, an enhanced CRB will involve a search of local police databases, and the Chief of Police then has to make a judgement as to whether arrests without charge, cautions, Fixed Penalty Notices and details of investigations which were not progressed may be relevant to the purpose of the E-CRB being requested, In cases involving the possibility of the applicant working or being involved with children or the vulnerable, almost anything could be deemed relevant.

 

Andydd makes the point which applies in post #15, and the most often quoted case is Ian Huntley, who had no criminal convictions, but had been suspected and investigated previously for behaviour which if known to those employing him would never have given him the opportunity to work near children.

[tigar1664]

hi all please could some help with my question as cant find anything on line. my husband is out on bail for conspricey on suspicion of burgely . he has just been offered a job and they need a standard crb check. even thou he has not been charged with anything will this show up and a check.

[BazzaS]

hi all please could some help with my question as cant find anything on line. my husband is out on bail for conspricey on suspicion of burgely . he has just been offered a job and they need a standard crb check. even thou he has not been charged with anything will this show up and a check.

 

It won't show if he is on bail.

However, the application form he completes may ask if he has any "proceedings pending".

Were he to omit to mention this, it would be grounds for dismissal were it to come to light.

 

If he accepts a caution, pleads guilty, or is found guilty, then it will be on his CRB in future. If he doesn't accept a caution, isn't charged, or is found not guilty, then it won't be on his CRB record, but he'll always be wondering "will it come out" if he fails to mention it if asked on his application.

[tigar1664]

It won't show if he is on bail.

However, the application form he completes may ask if he has any "proceedings pending".

Were he to omit to mention this, it would be grounds for dismissal were it to come to light.

 

If he accepts a caution, pleads guilty, or is found guilty, then it will be on his CRB in future. If he doesn't accept a caution, isn't charged, or is found not guilty, then it won't be on his CRB record, but he'll always be wondering "will it come out" if he fails to mention it if asked on his application.

 

thk u bazzaS

[westfield]

Really interesting and although what Ian Huntly did was dreadful any sort of knee jerk reaction is wrong. We live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty (allegedly ) and in my opinion the storing of data such as suspicions etc is a very dangerous thing. We could easily get to the point that people get locked up just in case.

[questioning]

Sorry i haven'ty been able to read the whole thread as my eyes are really sore so can't read much at the mo.

 

I just thought i'd add what i know,

for an enhanced CB check then any information that has been recorded about you can be disclosed by the relevent person in the police authority.

From what i have been told a person who was arrested is this, A dna swab , mug shot and fingerprints are always taken at the station after your arrest, if you are not charged, cautioned or what ever the fact that you were arrested and what you were arrested for are documented.

 

I was told by someone who was arrested for something they were not guilty of that when they were released they were just about to start a college course where enhanced CRB was needed and always will be for their chosen profession, they complained and so did the parents at time of release that this information would ruin there life as the enhanced CRB check would bring this up.

They were told not to worry by the police, the police new they were innocent and that they were a victim of a complaint that should never have been taken that far as there was no truth in it, so they said that they would make sure that it would not come up on any CRB check.

The way they did this was to make a note next to the arrest detailing this. Then when ever a enhanced CRB was needed the person giving details would not include this info.

 

 

They have had four enhanced CRBs done to date and all have come back totally clean.

[dippy52]

if someone i know was investigated by police and socail workers but not charged just given warning and told he couldn't work with children would this show up on CRB check or other ,also do you need a CRB check to work in a church in a position of trust and where there is small children attending.

[Sidewinder]

if someone i know was investigated by police and socail workers but not charged just given warning and told he couldn't work with children would this show up on CRB check or other ,also do you need a CRB check to work in a church in a position of trust and where there is small children attending.

 

Yes and Yes!