Should I complete a new ESA claim??

[ANDYANDFLO]

Hi everyone. This ESA thing is really starting to wind me up. I have various postings on here which together give a good idea of where I am at.

 

Why do 'friends' always know what is best advice???

 

Had a friend of my wife's over this afternoon, just some different company for her instead of having to look at me all of the time.

 

It got onto the subject of my ESA claim. My wife didn't know much about it, so I got dragged in out of the garden!!!

 

Point being, she says that I will be better off putting in a completely new claim, showing that my condition is more serious than it was in October last year. Also, that would give rise to an ESA50 which should be completed FULLY!! A new medical will be carried out and with luck I would pass. All of this whilst waiting for a date for my Tribunal hearing on my first ESA claim.

She said that I shouldn't present any supporting evidence at that stage, as neither the DWP or ATOS ask for it. They would only ask for it if I failed and I asked for the case to be reconsidered.

I would agree in part because looking at the ESA1 & ESA50 form and letters from ATOS, I can find no requirement/request or suggestion to send anything in other than the forms themselves.

 

My only worry is that if it all fails, and it goes to appeal, I will have two appeals going on at the same time. No doubt they would hold them together to save time and money. If then I lose both appeals, I would have to wait 6 months from when the 2nd claim was failed by the DWP.

However, if I wait until the decision of the first claim at the Tribunal and that fails, I could put in a new ESA claim then and make sure that my benefits continue.

 

It seems a bit of a gamble - one that I don't think I should go ahead with unless I knew for a certainty that the second claim would be sucessful after the medical.

 

Anybody any thought son the matter? I need to make sure that I receive my money every week, even at the assessment rate.

[RaeUK]

Hi,

 

She said that I shouldn't present any supporting evidence at that stage, as neither the DWP or ATOS ask for it. They would only ask for it if I failed and I asked for the case to be reconsidered. I would agree in part because looking at the ESA1 & ESA50 form and letters from ATOS, I can find no requirement/request or suggestion to send anything in other than the forms themselves.

I intend to send everything but the kitchen sink. See ESA50 page 25: Other Information ... or anything else you think we might need to know.

Covers it for me!

 

If then I lose both appeals, I would have to wait 6 months from when the 2nd claim was failed by the DWP.

I've highlighted the key words here. Anyone with a progressive disease or illness who has gone through the tribunal route will have gone way passed this six month malarky. Bearing in mind it can be up to a 9 month wait for the tribunal hearing ...

 

Whilst none of this can help you decide if you should make a consecutive claim, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things for you.

 

Best wishes

Rae

[45002]

if then I lose both appeals, I would have to wait 6 months from when the 2nd claim was failed by the DWP.

 

What do you get in the way of money during those 6 months ?

[ANDYANDFLO]

Hi,

 

I intend to send everything but the kitchen sink. See ESA50 page 25: Other Information ... or anything else you think we might need to know.

Covers it for me!

 

I've highlighted the key words here. Anyone with a progressive disease or illness who has gone through the tribunal route will have gone way passed this six month malarky. Bearing in mind it can be up to a 9 month wait for the tribunal hearing ...

 

Whilst none of this can help you decide if you should make a consecutive claim, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things for you.

 

Best wishes

Rae

 

Hi Rae & thanks once again

 

Yep it's good enough for me too. I don't think I will chance it as the possibility is that both appeals may be heard at the same time instead of treating the second one (that's if it goes that far) as a separate one. I could find myself with no money for a few months.

OK then, I will just persevere with the current claim and get the evidence to the Tribunal before the hearing date.

[cbbc]

Hi, Is there anyone on this site or that we know of who has actually received enough points from ATOS at the medical stage?

It really looks to me that no matter what we say or do at our medicals we still don't get enough points.

I read in one forum that a lady who was having treatment for breast cancer, still wearing a wig and suffering pain was passed as ready to work.

Knowing what we all do now we should all pass our medicals because we know all of the trick questions, I don't mean that we should be dishonest but we need to tell the ATOS doctor how we are on our worst day.

I have read many many stories about how the ATOS doctors are actually lying on our reports and unless we film our medicals then it is just our word against theirs and therefore months and months of worry.

My G.P and specialist have never been asked for a report by the DWP and the reconsideration panel stubbornly refused to take into account my medical evidence that the ATOS doctor was lying. I have medical proof that I can not bend my knee enough to crouch down and I refused at the medical but the ATOS report put that I had no trouble crouching.

Has no ATOS doctor ever stopped working for ATOS and admitted that they are told to fail everyone? There must be at least one ATOS doctor with a conscience.

[ANDYANDFLO]

What do you get in the way of money during those 6 months ?

 

Hi, under the current situation it is taking over 6 months to get to the Tribunal stage after the decision by the DWP to fail me. That in effect helps in that 'normally' you cannot put in another claim for ESA until after 6 months from the date the DWP failed me.

So if say the appeal is heard 2 months after the 'fail' date and you fail at the appeal stage, you would have to wait 4 months before a new claim would be accepted - no ESA will be paid in that intervening period.

However if it takes longer than 6 months to get to the appeal stage and I lose then - a new claim is submitted and ESA will continue to be paid without a break.

There is one exception to this and that is that the 6 month rule is waived if I can show that due to a progressive disease my health is worse than it was when I failed the medical.

Bottom line - if you want to continue to receive ESA without a break the the time from your DWP failure to the appeal hearing must be longer than 6 months or if your health is getting worse you can ignore that rule.

Edited May 24, 2010 by ANDYANDFLO
ooops word incorrectly added

[honeybee13]

cbbc, I do remember earlier this year a couple of ex-Atos doctors spoke to one of the papers anonymously. It might have been the Guardian. Someone posted the article or link on this forum.

 

HB x

[ANDYANDFLO]

Hi, Is there anyone on this site or that we know of who has actually received enough points from ATOS at the medical stage?

It really looks to me that no matter what we say or do at our medicals we still don't get enough points.

I read in one forum that a lady who was having treatment for breast cancer, still wearing a wig and suffering pain was passed as ready to work.

Knowing what we all do now we should all pass our medicals because we know all of the trick questions, I don't mean that we should be dishonest but we need to tell the ATOS doctor how we are on our worst day.

I have read many many stories about how the ATOS doctors are actually lying on our reports and unless we film our medicals then it is just our word against theirs and therefore months and months of worry.

My G.P and specialist have never been asked for a report by the DWP and the reconsideration panel stubbornly refused to take into account my medical evidence that the ATOS doctor was lying. I have medical proof that I can not bend my knee enough to crouch down and I refused at the medical but the ATOS report put that I had no trouble crouching.

Has no ATOS doctor ever stopped working for ATOS and admitted that they are told to fail everyone? There must be at least one ATOS doctor with a conscience.

 

Hi, I think the problem maybe that those that do pass first time would not normally either visit a site like this or if they do, they may not wish to post a thread. We may be seeing the negative side to ESA too much because of the failures and it not being balanced by comments from those that are satisfied with it and get through without problems.

I have seen some comments in the past saying that they had no problems in the medical, and with the evidence that they sent in with the application form (ESA1) 0r the ESA50, the DWP saw sense.

 

The following is an extract taken from a letter from a Decison Maker relating to questions asked:

 

"The ESA50 is an integral part of the medical process. As much information as is possible should be put on it. People are given six weeks to fill the form in which gives ample time to take breaks in between filling each part of the form....................................................................................

............People see the form and get intimidated by it when there is no reason at all to be intimidated.......................................................................

........... The Decision Makers do read the ESA50 and use it to contradict what the WCA report says. When people dont put in enough information they essentially hang themselves and their claim gets disallowed. Nothing underhand about the process at all."

 

I am further advised that the DWP/ATOS can obtain evidence from the GP/consultant but choose not to do so. They consider that it is the claimants responsibility to produce the evidence.

 

So in my humble opinion it seems that we are failing because whilst ATOS are a law unto themselves, the DWP would look favourably on a case if on the outset every claimant sent in a properly prepared bundle of evidence backing up a fully completed ESA50 which would describe how your life is affected and that you are unfit to work. And if the condition/s are variable, all of those variables are reported on as well as the affects of the medication on your abilities - bearing in mind at all times the set conditions that have to be met to gain maximum points.

 

All in all, a bl***y nightmare!!!!

[loan_ranger]

cbbc, I do remember earlier this year a couple of ex-Atos doctors spoke to one of the papers anonymously. It might have been the Guardian. Someone posted the article or link on this forum.

 

HB x

I don't think that any ATOS HCP or former one has ever gone "on the record" for fear of being sued for breach of confidentiality. There were 2 docs who made a comment here regarding the standard of exams.

 

Regards,

Paul.

[loan_ranger]

[The link takes you there - I'm yet to learn how you do that fancy changing the text thingy ... anyone? ]

I'll PM you soon with a "how to".

 

Regards, Paul.

[ErikaPNP]

Occnurse1, if you wish to post about your employers/former employers - I'm not sure which because it has changed as has your jobtitle since you last posted - please contact admin as you were previously asked to under your pseudonym.

 

Please credit our members with a little intelligence.

 

Thank you.

[loan_ranger]

De-ja-vu again, it's just as well I saved this thread on my P.C. This censorship (i.e. disappearing posts) is beginning to irk me to the point where I'm going to "take my ball and go play elsewhere".

[twinkletoes66]

What happened?

[honeybee13]

Loan Ranger, I don't think it's directed at you at all. I had something disallowed too, just when it was getting interesting. I think we all agree that CAG shouldn't get into trouble with the authorities and I hope this is just unfortunate.

 

Please don't leave us now.

 

I don't understand exactly what's going on either.

 

HB

[ErikaPNP]

It's not censorship, loanranger. It's protection of both CAG and our members which we take very seriously indeed as posted by both Martin and myself on Kelcou's thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/262676-its-probably-just-me.html

 

These posts do not add up. The information, the job title and the opinion on nurses by this member has all changed within a few days. And whatever game is being played, is being suceeded because it has already seen the closure of one ESA/ATOS thread.

 

Is it just pure coincidence that when a group of people are finally getting some campaining ideas off the ground, this happens? I do not think so. If it was censorship, if we did not want to see a campaign we would have closed all threads on ATOS campaigning. We would have removed every single link to other campaigns. The petitions, the facebook pages, Hendo's forum. That hasn't been done. Instead we have allowed CAG to be used as a platform to get this off the ground. That has been allowed because we support this campaign.

 

Further, I am very passionate about our members, particularly ones whom are being denied their benefits and having to fight the system to get what they are rightfully entitled to. I will not stand idly by while someone rips into them even further by firstly gaining their trust by purporting to be something that they quite clearly are not. Their own posts under the different usernames contradict one other completely. I have removed others posts simply because they quote and reply to posts from that member which have been removed, and with very good reason. I have posted on this thread to avoid censorship so that members are fully aware of why I have done this. I much prefer openess.

 

I have made my position clear on this. If anyone disagrees then the matter can be escalated to admin.

[ErikaPNP]

Whilst I am on the subject - Hendo I've had a nosey at your new website. Looking good! You've put in a lot of hard work there.

[hendo001]

someone posted something that violated the site rules :S it happens

 

Dont worry its only to protect us and CAG from ATOS and other companies

 

As for andy, if you fail your appeal and 6 months is up just bash in a new claim and if they do the same with u again just appeal and then wait hte 6-12 months to get it sorted if they fail you a gain just rinse and repeat and laugh at the ATOS/DWP falling over themselves and the government wheels.

 

It is a shame however that you cannot get the support you need from the ESA support section as that might of helped you out and possibly back to work sooner if its possible or help you to live a less stressed life.

 

Dont let things get to you mate, I'm in a similar position as you atm and I'm going through my second run at ESA

[ErikaPNP]

 

Dont worry its only to protect us and CAG from ATOS and other companies :)just rinse and repeat and laugh at the ATOS/DWP falling over themselves and the government wheels.

 

Thanks Hendo but I'd just like to point out that this time it's not solely about protecting CAG. This time, it extends to protecting our members and the campaign too.

[hendo001]

Whilst I am on the subject - Hendo I've had a nosey at your new website. Looking good! You've put in a lot of hard work there.

 

thanks I still have a long way to go.

 

This is website number 2 billion and 1 me thinks lol

 

and forum number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I know how being a site owner and admin/moderator is like.

 

Some people will come here and to the new site just to stir up trouble, so please folks lets let the admin/mod team deal with the tools while we get the campaign and site sorted for our fantastic take-back of all the things that have been wrongly denied us!

[hendo001]

Thanks Hendo but I'd just like to point out that this time it's not solely about protecting CAG. This time, it extends to protecting our members and the campaign too.

 

 

and thanks for that, i really mean that.

 

alot of "hostiles" will start to come out of the woodwork now that things are starting to move forward

[loan_ranger]

Occnurse1, if you wish to post about your employers/former employers - I'm not sure which because it has changed as has your jobtitle since you last posted - please contact admin as you were previously asked to under your pseudonym.

 

Please credit our members with a little intelligence.

 

Thank you.

Can you substantiate that 'Occnurse1' and 'atosdoc' are the same person please?, or have you decided to give no further comment re. 'Occnurse1' being 'atosdoc' as implied by this:

I have made my position clear on this. If anyone disagrees then the matter can be escalated to admin.

[ErikaPNP]

I would not have removed the postings if I did not have genuine concerns. My concerns are not without substance, I can assure you. Anyone who has been around CAG long enough knows that when I remove posts/threads in their entirity, I do so only when absolutely necessery. I'm just as as much in support for the campaign as other members and anything which can add weight to it.

 

As I said, my position is clear, and if anyone has an issue with the decision I have made, the option is there to escalate the matter to admin. If you hover your mouse over the word "admin" here, it will bring up the email details for forwarding a complaint.

[twinkletoes66]

Im lost but sorry if I said anything wrong

[ErikaPNP]

No, twinkletoes you didn't

[RaeUK]

Ladies and gentleman of the ATOSH Appreciation Society, trust the Site Team. They are more than mere forum moderators, they also - as Erika has more than aptly demonstrated - take our needs to heart.

I was curious to see two apparent experts post in quick succession, hence the invite to my facebook page - not taken up as yet, unsurprisingly.

As I've mentioned before, I post a lot over in the Bailiff Forum. One golden rule we have is to remind people that it's not just members of CAG who read the forum. It's widely read by the bailiff industry. This forum will be no different. The 'enemy' are watching.

CAG, rightly, is not a political edifice. One of the reasons why I started the FB page, but even that is open to abuse.

In time - and I apologise I work oh so slowly - I'll be creating a space that will be members only and password protected. Whilst still not 100% secure it'll be a slightly better place to chat about what we need to do...

 

Up the revolution!

 

[Note to casual observers from a DWP related world, this comment is purely hypothetical and in no way necessarily represents the true view of the person attributed to the post...]

 

Best wishes

Rae

Edited June 13, 2010 by RaeUK