Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)Info and discussion thread

[Bongo_Fury]

The person concerned in the case I have been looking at e-mailed Computeach to see what was on offer and got this back:

 

 

 

They are clearly not as far advanced with this as BPF would have you believe!!!

 

David

 

 

+1 that is exactly the response i had from them.

[Matt28LFC]

I'd like to be included

[GillyBee]

Look to the left of the screen under your user name .. at the bottom. If you click on it, a response box will pop up. Just type in your request for assistance and hit submit. Site team will then be alerted to your post/query.

 

Thanks. For the benefit of any other numpties like myself I've just discovered that unless you log in there is no triangle! No wonder I couldn't find it!

 

I was also wondering, as I researched training providers originally and narrowed my choice down to Advent or NITLC (Advent had the edge with their Advent Careers Service), as part of that process I deliberately DIDN'T choose Computeach because of their bad press. How can BPF therefore force me to go with a training provider that I actively rejected?

[Bluedo]

Your first IT job

 

Your first IT job

 

First-time IT entrants needed now

IT jobs are more secure

We help you find an IT job

 

They're using this carrot but according to previous students are not delivering.

They make it look very attractive but that's the whole point for them.

Hope anyone interested still to be conned, will now think twice about what they are really getting into nothing but a large Debt. IT courses can be gotten at a fraction of the cost

But CT and Advent are misleading people into believing that going with them will enable you a position in IT they are also quoting salary of £33,000

Thought when asked recently they admitted no we don't offer jobs.

[Bongo_Fury]

Quite, Bluedo.

 

Perhaps they could give us their own figures that show what percentage of Computeach students actually get £33k as a starting wage!

 

I bet its more like £15k - £20k!

[snowball574]

hi guys

have just asked cag team for help aswell no way i'm i shelling out more cash(soliciter) i rather donate to the site n team that has been a great help n keep us sane.will cantact FO this week now i know who TP is

 

thanks to site team n posters

 

jay

[joyhouk]

Hello everybody,

I'm also joining with cag team.

we will win

[Beedles6]

Hi, Beedles. Just read these FAQs myself. The Advent salesperson told me that the average CDS student can complete the course in about 12 months (probably why she put my end date 12 months from the start date). I now know that this is very unrealistic. Others seem to have been offered longer.

 

She also said that I would have full support from Advent for as long as I needed it and that there would be NO additional costs. It took me 10 months to achieve my A+. I had never looked inside a computer before I started the course. The A+ represents the knowledge expected of an IT Technician who has spent 9 months working full time as an IT Technician. I don't work in IT and thought that I did well to complete A+ in the space of 10 months. I was hoping, however, to at least have started my last module within two years and have started work as a Database Administrator (all through Advent).

 

In my now terminated contract, it states that the "Term" means:

 

"the period starting on the Contract Start Date and ending on the earlier of the date when you pass the final certification examination which forms part of your course and the date two years from the Contract Start Date ("Relevant Date") unless the initial term is extended as set out in paragraph 10.2 when the Relevant Date shall be the date of the extended term."

 

(My paragraph 10.2 simply states "The Contract will terminate immediately in the event of your death" - I don't know how that extends the term of the Contract!!)

 

I would like to hear from all the other "average" students who completed the CDS course (Database Administrator) in around 12 months - or am I just thicker than the "average" student?

 

I wonder which date Computeach will be looking at? Hmmmm....

 

I'm certainly not going to pay more for something I thought I'd already paid for.

 

Yes i have also read this i was on the mcse and after 1 month of been on the course my partner found out she was pregnant so i only had about six months to study before id have to go back to work full time and long hours so i called advent and they told me to just contact them when i want to begin studying again and that would be fine also no start date or end date on my contract and paragraph 10.2 is the same in my contract no relevance to an extension of the term so i think this contract isnt worth the paper its printed on as it isnt even accurate.

[kymi]

Hi guys

 

I've read this thread from about page 80 onwards, (just didn't have the time to go through it all)

 

My niece joined up with Advent and Barclay's in 2007, I wish I'd known I'd have immediately advised against it, as she could have done the same course at the local tech college for about a quarter of the price.

 

She hasn't completed the course as both her grandmother and mother died within months of each other last year, however she was under the impression she could pick the study up again when she felt up to it.

 

The interest on the loan from Barclays partners made me gasp in horror. I find it reprehensible that people who are clearly trying to better themselves are being so blatently misused.

 

I have no hesitation in admitting that I hope this shambles is the excuse needed to get her out of this contract and I'm doing my best to do so.

 

This is letters we have sent so far, if they help anyone then that's great, I might add I have adapted the second one from another one kindly shared on another forum.

 

1. Dear Sir/Madam

 

In reference to your letters dated 28/01/10 and 4/2/10 respectively.

Account Number

 

You state in your letter that Advent Consulting Ltd from whom I was receiving my training has ceased to trade and that you will source me a further training package.

 

I do not wish to take you up on this offer as I don’t wish to start my training afresh.

 

With this in mind and as my contract with Advent has now been breached. I wish to cancel the agreement with you.

 

As the complete training course materials have not all been delivered and no units were passed by Advent. I would be grateful if you would refund all monies paid to you by myself.

 

I look forward to your response

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Name

 

2. This is the letter sent in response to their letter refusing to release her etc

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number:

 

In reference to Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and also your letter dated 22ND Feb 2010

 

I am writing to request that you cancel the contract of the Fixed-Sum Loan Agreement of £4950 taken out 7th July 2007 for a training course provided by Advent.

 

My claim is made on the grounds that the company has gone into administration and you are jointly liable for any misrepresentation or breach of contract with the above supplier under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states;

 

If you received unsatisfactory goods or services paid for under this agreement you may have the right to sue the supplier, us or both.

If the contract is not fulfilled, perhaps because the supplier has gone out of business, you may still be able to sue us.

 

If any further payments are taken out from March 2010 onwards, then these payments will be MADE IN PROTEST.

 

You have 14 days to reply to this letter and if you do not then I will be contacting the Financial Ombudsman with a view to resolving this matter.

Also on no account do I wish Barclays Partners Finance to find me an alternative provider. I fail to see how you could possibly provide me with a training programme without investigating whether it is suitable for me or not.

 

I look forward to a full and prompt response to this letter as stated within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

(She hasn't had a response to this letter yet)

 

I'd also like to add she would be happy with not having to pay any more rather than a total refund, she does realise she joined up to the course a couple of years ago.

 

She was also advised her DD payments were frozen, yet they have still been taken out of her bank account whilst not receiving the service paid for.

 

I would also like to advise

 

On no account login to the Computeach site, the way I read this, if you do so then you accept their terms and conditions etc.

 

I'd suggest refusing to pay the monthly payment (though it sticks in your craw to do so) will only ultimately harm your credit rating, it will also hike your interest to even more incredible heights if ultimately Barclays win this, (and I'm afraid that could be a possibility). Pay it under protest!

 

Regards

Kymi

[mantaxi]

Guys - hold fire on paying money to any solicitor just yet.

 

The CAG team are putting together some info and standard letters which covers everyones issues (see recent posts over the last few pages).

 

Patience is a virtue.

 

Hold fire and see what they advise first.

 

There's no rush. After all, BPF have kept us all holding onto their next word for 2 months!

 

Meanwhile, make sure you have lodged your complaint with the Financial Ombudsmen and your local trading standards office.

 

hi fuzzbutt at the moment nobody is paying a4rons solicitor untill he goes to court. at the moment he is looking at the contracts and is going to speak to a barrister to see how we stand for the refund.when he has the answers he will let everyone know that has contacted him the amount that has to be paid, so the more people that join the less you have to pay, if you do not like the price you do not have to go ahead with it you just drop out, no cost. sending letters to bpf quoting s75 and frustrated contracts seems to be falling on deaf ears as everyone on hear has found out. the only way to go is what they say in the contract you may sue us.

[Bluedo]

Found this on Scottish Parliament website BPF Time Bomb is ticking

 

 

Scottish Parliament - Motions & Amendments - Current Motions

 

 

S3M-6040 Willie Coffey: Private Training Providers, Protection of StudentsFees—That the Parliament notes with concern the impact on students of private training providers when their training provider ceases trading; understands that, in addition to the disruption to their training, many students also lose the course fee, which is usually paid in full at the beginning of the course; expresses particular concern at the case of Advent Consulting Ltd and associated companies, in which thousands of students have been left with no training provider after paying fees in some cases above £5,000; further expresses concern at the activities of funders that provide interest-free loans to pay course fees, which can see students face demands for repayment of over twice the sum borrowed for a course that no longer exists, and considers that there could be merit in a scheme for bonded training providers, similar to ABTA in the travel industry, to ensure that students are not hit by the double whammy of no training and a huge debt.

[Bluedo]

Kymi,

Thanks for posting up your letters they've totally ignored any reference to anything I've written. My account is on hold and DD cancelled and I am not receiving any service and have no wish to pay for something I'm not getting.Although I understand your concerns but we are within our rights to refuse CT as they are unsuitable therefore rendering the contract unenforcable.

We have rights under s75 of cca1974 and Advent breached the contract and BPF are jointly liable.

If we have support fom 1 government body then contact your MP's and drum up some more support everyone get a motion heard in London.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I had heard of this-info was sent to me following a Student contacting Willie Coffey.He said he would put it up if there were enough interested-seems he has found the numbers

[Bluedo]

thought it would give a wee moral boost and keep our hopes up

[kymi]

Hi Bluedo

 

I agree with you entirely, and I think the whole thing stinks.

 

However I'm a tad concerned for those people who may not realise that repercussions could occur if they don't make their monthly payments.

 

Yes you all have moral right on your side, unfortunately morals are not something Barclays seem to possess nowadays

 

Kymi

 

My account is on hold and DD cancelled and I am not receiving any service and have no wish to pay for something I'm not getting.Although I understand your concerns but we are within our rights to refuse CT as they are unsuitable therefore rendering the contract unenforcable.

We have rights under s75 of cca1974 and Advent breached the contract and BPF are jointly liable.

If we have support fom 1 government body then contact your MP's and drum up some more support everyone get a motion heard in London.

[Fuzzbutt]

hi fuzzbutt at the moment nobody is paying a4rons solicitor untill he goes to court. at the moment he is looking at the contracts and is going to speak to a barrister to see how we stand for the refund.when he has the answers he will let everyone know that has contacted him the amount that has to be paid, so the more people that join the less you have to pay, if you do not like the price you do not have to go ahead with it you just drop out, no cost. sending letters to bpf quoting s75 and frustrated contracts seems to be falling on deaf ears as everyone on hear has found out. the only way to go is what they say in the contract you may sue us.

 

Hi Mantaxi

 

Yes, you're right in that respect and I did contact A4ron's solicitor a while ago myself but then withdrew and decided to hang fire because, as I said, there is another option being put up which won't cost you anything, which I initiated.

Although I'm not at liberty to post until this is set in stone there is the possibility of a class action coming up, which we can all be part of.

 

Hence I'd suggest hold fire for a bit - sorry I can say no more than that at present, but thought I'd better say something are people are straining at the leash and keen to do something.

 

CAG team will be looking into this for us.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Fuzzbutt

[Fuzzbutt]

Class action lawsuits - how they work.

 

"When theres some kind of perceived fraud or misconduct that affects many people in a similar way, those people tend to look for a law firm to represent them all. The damages may not be sufficient to justify paying lawyers for many separate individual cases. Sometimes a law firm will take on a class action "on contingency," meaning that the attorneys risk their time and efforts and only get paid if they win.

 

A class-wide action is much more efficient for the judicial system, according to lawyers.

 

Who brings the suit?

The suit is brought by an individual or several individuals on behalf of the class."

How class action lawsuits work

 

Also.....

 

(USA site)

Class Action Lawsuits: What They Are and How They Work

 

Wikipedia

Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mantaxi]

Hi Mantaxi

 

Yes, you're right in that respect and I did contact A4ron's solicitor a while ago myself but then withdrew and decided to hang fire because, as I said, there is another option being put up which won't cost you anything, which I initiated.

Although I'm not at liberty to post until this is set in stone there is the possibility of a class action coming up, which we can all be part of.

 

Hence I'd suggest hold fire for a bit - sorry I can say no more than that at present, but thought I'd better say something are people are straining at the leash and keen to do something.

 

CAG team will be looking into this for us.

 

 

from my understandig the cag team are going to prepare a letter to send to bpf, is that right, or are they going to prepare a case against bpf, because i can not see bpf returnung our money without a fight. and as you know letters have done nothing to scare them into giving us students a refund. so far bpf does not admit that they are in the wrong infact they say they have fulfilled thier part of the bargain. i think its time for action now as a long time has passed without any of us getting what we paid for. if you or the cag team could post what action is going to be taken and what sort of % we have in getting a refund from it i will be happy to join in. thus having to irons in the fire so to speak.

[Fuzzbutt]

As I said, can't say too much at the moment, but I've offered to be one of the 'named parties' for a lawsuit.

 

BPF and Computeach spies may be reading here so I'll leave it there, except to say I agree it's gone past polite begging letters now to this shameful bank and yes, action must indeed be taken. I'm up for that!

[Bluedo]

Hi Mantaxi,

 

It's the not knowing what's happening that's unsettling and the CAG Team are

very clued up on these matters. Between them they have a wealth of experience and knowledge of these situations. They know what they're doing.

So we need to have faith and patience that I'll admit I don't have a lot of either

Have a read at Fuzzbutt's links and know that if people said what they were

doing then it would defeat the purpose. It just takes time.

 

We've sparked interest in the Scottish Parliament by that Motion that's been tabled for debate and I'm kinda hoping it'll find it's way to the Government bodies in London as well .

At least to keep up the pressure to get them to look at this and get a stop put to innocent people being conned and taken advantage of by their sales tactics into these grossly overpriced Training courses.

Not just IT but the guys wanting a Trade to get a decent job and their futures secured. Cos that's the sales Tactic.

I mean 11,000 students affected and we are not stupid people just believed a lie that was made to enable a contract to be signed.

Oh! my! better shut up hang in there Mantaxi time is ticking for them

[MARTIN3030]

I have had one or two people asking about the FOS.

 

I explained earlier about the procedure-but here is some more.

 

Although under FSA guidance a lender / Financial Service Provider who operates under regulatory codes has 8 weeks in which to resolve a complaint or else give a final response before the FOS will actively take on a complaint,this does not stop anyone from opening a complaint before then.

The first steps are to give some basic info to the FOS -such as your name,address,contact details,the organisation you are complaining about,and the nature of the complaint.

You can do nthis online,or else in writing.

The FOS will then send you a complaints form with an allocated complaints number attatched.

This will be recorded for all additional info and at that point your complaint will be logged on their system.

 

Once you recieve the form-fill it in and send it back with original copies of any supporting docs and correspondence.

If the 8 weeks time frame has not been exhausted or else you have not yet recieved a final response within the 8 weeks-the FOS will return your complaints form along with your docs after taking copies of them.

they WILL NOT TAKE ANY FURTHER ACTION until they hear from you further-but at least your complaint is on the system.

I was given a little hope to read of a number of complaints that the FOS appear to have upheld in favour of students against BPF.

My understanding is that amongst their determinations were breaches covered by Sec 75CCA and also under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1979.

I dont quite understand why these rulings have been upheld so quickly,but it could have been following BPF giving a final response inside 8 weeks.

This could possibly explain why they are not doing that now-but exhausting the 8 weeks.

 

I am aware that many have sent letters but that it appears that the letters have not all been specific in their targets,

 

The letters should have clearly set out that the Student considers the account to be in dispute,for xxxx reasons (which have all been outlined previously-and which seemingly offer recourse)

 

The letters needed to be stating that any action by BCF to enforce collection of monies or initiate negative or adverse credit reporting,would be viewed as hostile and as a result would spur a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading,Consumer Direct,Trading Standards,and the FOS.

 

Secondly,

There is a defined course of action required before litigation-which its essential any prospective claimants would be expected to follow under The Civil Procedure Rules pre action protocols.

 

It is likely BCF would have a good arguement to say that they were investigating complaints and had not given a final response,therefore had not been given opportunity to address a claimants issues.

 

This of course would apply to those who have had letters to say they were looking into the complaint and would respond further.

 

Where BPF HAVE IGNORED letters or have said they consider no case to answer-then thats a different scenario.

 

So the first thing that BOTH the FOS AND any Court would be interested to see was that BPF had been given the chance to resolve-and also their response.

 

Its essential therefore that there is supporting evidence of fob offs-as well of course of the submissions which rely on a course of action (That there are grounds to challenge)

 

 

I can confirm that as far as I am aware,2 different firms have been approached.

One is seeking upfront payments for representation (including £200 for a letter)

 

The other,I am not in a position to discuss,although my understanding is that some are aware.

 

Initially,my thoughts at this stage was to try and determine who has done what-you will appreciate that with so many students here who have taken some steps its very difficult to find a starting point.

For that reason I asked those looking for help with a letter,to send details via the report triangle-giving a brief outline of things.

I thought that way it was more easy to identify a plan of action....for a selection of CAG members who are in limbo as what to do.

 

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

Once I am in a position to report more-I will do.

[johnwoods]

Hi there

 

Have just asked cag team for help too. Thanks to the site team and all the posters - the advice has been great!

 

John

[Bluedo]

Hi there

 

Have just asked cag team for help too. Thanks to the site team and all the posters - the advice has been great!

 

John

 

Hi John welcome aboard

Thanks Martin for the helpful information

[Tricla]

I have asked the CAG team for help too and am currently compiling my complaint to the FOS.

 

It seems to me that any judge with half a brain would find in favour of us.

 

Thanks CAG team.

[lewis2]

hi martin could yountell me where youn= need me to put my details again and whwt you need sorry!