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    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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Mint - Is this agreement enforceable?


Surfer01
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I am not exactly sure about the prescribed terms and where they should be held. The fact that the amount of credit they were offering on the card is definitely not mentioned anywhere in the document, however ther eis one interesting snippet which states no interest if paid in full at the end of each month.

At the time in 2004 my annual salary was £16750 and the credit tlimit that they set on the card was £3600 which in a way was irresponsible lending as there is no ways that I could have paid it off in the period of a month if I used it to the hilt.

Hmmm! Just noticed something else on my "application form". I ticked a box for "Card registration" for cover for 3 years. This is in case you lose your keys, cards etc. below it, it states "See T & Cs for a summary of card registration, but in the T & Cs enclosed this is nowhere to be found. Very suspicious. Maybe they have drafted their own T & Cs to suit the occasion. Shouldn't they have supplied a true copy of the T & Cs also and perhaps in addition to that, the same but printed so that it is legible? I now smell a rat!

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The prescribed terms should be within the four corners of the agreement; either on the signature page or on the reverse of the signature page. CCA 1974 clearly states that they cannot be found in a separate document - such as T&Cs.

 

It sounds as if they have just sent you a copy of their currents T&Cs. They are supposed to send you historic T&Cs as well as current, but very rarely do.

 

I think you are right to be suspicious.

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I think I will chase them ujp and remind them that they have not sent me a true copy of the CCA as none of the prescribed terms are present on the document as it is an application form and see how they respond.

Just got to figure out how to word it in a legal sense etc.

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Hi Surfer,

 

This can be a little complex so bare with me...

 

Creditors can get away with sending all kinds of nonsense under the CCA. Although I agree with Underdogs comments, banks tend to get away with not sending the information you require. It's wrong, I know, but the fact of the matter is that the banks are badly regulated when it comes to the way they control money, so this aspect of their business has no chance....

 

What it can do is provide a good indication of the records they have. For example, a photocopy of a document that meets the terms (as stated by underdog) would show there is a good chance they have the signed executed agreement in their possession (except this is RBS and we know they love their Photoshop!). In your case, the sending of an application form is a good sign. I would do the following:

 

a) Write to RBS advising the account is still in default. Clearly headline your letter 'Formal Complaint - account in dispute' and explain the application form does not meet the criteria of the CCA. If you need a template, PM me. Keep records of all correspondence and send mail by recorded delivery. This will keep the account frozen (in theory at least) and also put you into their complaints system. They'll farm it out to a DCA vulture anyway, but stick to your guns - you're in the right here. If a DCA contacts you, write back advising the account is in dispute (we can cross this bridge in more detail if/when it happens). In the event that this goes to court (no panic, just in case) then historically you will show you have taken every avenue available to you.

 

I can almost guarantee your response will tell you that you are wrong about what you think you should receive under the CCA and that the account isn't in default, you owe us money (blah blah). But you are right and they are wrong - don't forget this.

 

b) Send a FULL Subject Access Request to RBS. Definitely PM me for the letter, I have a template that covers everything. They have to provide their copy of the agreement under a Subject Access Request and if they don't,you can head for the Information Commissioners Office. RBS are notoriously rubbish at providing information under an Subject Access Request. This should clarify what document they hold as an agreement with you. If it continues to be the application form, then you're in luck. They'll possibly try and do what they have to me (and others on CAG) and cut your signature from the application form, copy it into a document with all the prescribed terms etc, despite the agreement not being in existence. (Yeah, it sounds like fr*ud I know, but this is the banks and they are governed by different rules to everyone else). Let me know if this happens...

Edited by danson79
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Surfer,

 

When I sent CCA request to Mint, they also supplied me with a copy of my application form - I wrote back saying that a copy of the aplication form does not fulfil my request for the CCA. Next, I sent them my SAR..I got a reply which at the end said, I can confirm that on this occasion we are unable to provide a copy of the original signed agreement.

 

So I have it in black and white that they do not hold an agreement for me. I have been writing since and each time have been fobbed off. Eventually they got f'd off with me and gave me their final response saying bog off. Ive just sent an e-mail to creditexpert scanning in this document from Mint saying they hold no CCA and gave all my reasons that the default should be removed. The next step should that fail is court. Or the Ombudsman?

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subbing, Mint have just sent me an application form, no prescribed terms etc

Lowell Financial (Monument) No CCA - File Closed ** WON**:D

1st Credit (Citi Financial) No CCA - Credit Report Marked 'Satisfied' ** WON **:D

American Express No CCA - Pending

RBS Mint No CCA - Pending

CL Finance (Morgan Stanley) No CCA - In Court:eek:

HSBC - No CCA - In Court:eek:

Link Financial (MBNA) No CCA - Pending

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Original application form for a RBS Advanta Platinum Reserve Card in 1999.

 

No credit limit, No payment information, Only APR states 5.9% for purchases and balance transfers fixed until march 2000.

Lowell Financial (Monument) No CCA - File Closed ** WON**:D

1st Credit (Citi Financial) No CCA - Credit Report Marked 'Satisfied' ** WON **:D

American Express No CCA - Pending

RBS Mint No CCA - Pending

CL Finance (Morgan Stanley) No CCA - In Court:eek:

HSBC - No CCA - In Court:eek:

Link Financial (MBNA) No CCA - Pending

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Thanks, uptotheeyeballs. My account is newer than yours, yet they only sent me T&Cs and refused to even discuss supplying my original agreement. Odd! I can't see how they could have lost my application form if they have yours from years previously?! Can't fathom what they're playing at:confused:

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  • 11 months later...

I still owe about £220 on this card to close it down, however due to being made redundant I am paying about £5 a month off on it and this will take forever. Most of this consists of £12 charges in 2007. At the moment there is no arrears on the card.

Can someone please clarify whether the agrement below is enforceable? Thanks.

 

MINTagreementquery.jpg

Edited by Surfer01
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I would say that the form by itself is unenforceable as it lacks the prescribed terms. However if they were able to produce the other side, that may well be a different matter. It would appear the quality of copy may suggest an actual photocopy of the original rather than a microfiche one, in which case the original may well be produced. Although I am led to believe that whatever a creditor supplies in relation to a S78 request is/are the only documents they can rely on in court, this from s172:

 

Section 172 states:

 

172 Statements by creditor or owner to be binding

 

(1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under—

 

section 77(1),

 

section 78(1),

 

section 79(1),

 

section 97(1),

 

section 107(1)©,

 

section 108(1)©, or

 

section 109(1)©.

This means that the documents you have been sent are the only documents the bank may now rely on in any attempt at enforcing these alleged debts. Any further documentation they may present is irrelevant as they did not provide it in response to your lawful request.

Advice given is IMHO and should not be taken as fact, hopefully someone else will contribute to your thread.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
if you challenge the validity of the agreement, the IMO the account is in dispute and they cannot any further default charges!? somebody else may have a view on this.

Thanks I have re-posted the agreement in the OP.

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  • 4 months later...

My statement runs from the 22nd of the month to the 21st of the next month. On the 13th April I phoned up and asked how much I needed to pay to settle the account and was given a figure of £187.88 which I then paid. I was then under the impression that the account was closed.

However at the end of April my statement reflected that I still owed them £2.62. Luckily the DMP organisation had made a payment of £5 so no late payment charge. The figure of £2.62 was for interest between the 22/03/10 and 13/04/10.

Surely as I had asked for a settlement figure to close the account I should have been given just that and not for them to suddenly find an additional £2.62. I now have a credit of £2.44 with them.

It is not the money but the principle however if this happen to 1 million people, that is a lot of money.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Mint - Is this agreement enforceable?
  • dx100uk changed the title to mint - No CCA from MINT
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