jd williams cca help urgently needed

[dgs82]

hi, does anyone know the factual legistration for an unenforceable cca with a catalogue company (jd williams)

 

i opened an account with jd williams end of november 2006. as far as i am aware i never received or sign any form of credit agreement.

 

i opened my account over the phone. not the internet or application form via the post.

 

i have tried everything i can regarding this situation that has now been going on for just over two years. jd williams will not accept any lower payment nor are they willing to listen. they just keep adding charges to my account and getting debt collection agencies to send letters threatening cout action if not apid in full the day i recieve the letter and to contact them immediately if i have problems paying the full outstanding balance.

 

however when i do contact them they will not accept payment other than the full amount.

 

also, without my request, permission and knowledge jd williams also opened another credit account in my name just a week or so after the first one. i have used the catalogue but is this not legal?

 

what i really need to know:

 

1, is there any rules/laws etc in 2006 that would prevent me going the cca route.

 

2, does the 2004 electronic signiture valid on telephone applications or is it just on internet website applications?

 

3, does anyone know of any lawful reason why a catalogue company would not have a signed by me cca in 2006.

 

in my mind, if this company had any enforcable cca, then they would have started court preceedings ages ago surely. at present i am receiving letters from debt collectors at least one every 14 days threatening legal action for at least one full year.

 

does anyone know if this is the way it goes?

 

also as far as the signed cca is concern i am a little confused as 5 people i know at christmas all opened accounts with this company. all accounts were opened via the internet with the tick in the box but all 5 received cca's in the post either after items were despatched or just after recieving items to sign with t+c on the back. the have to sign and send back.

 

three of which have not been signed and accounts still running as norm.

 

anyone know factual info?

 

all help very great fully received.

 

cheers

Edited January 8, 2010 by dgs82

[themagician]

hi, does anyone know the factual legistration for an unenforceable cca with a catalogue company (jd williams)

 

i opened an account with jd williams end of november 2006. as far as i am aware i never received or sign any form of credit agreement.

 

i opened my account over the phone. not the internet or application form via the post.

 

i have tried everything i can regarding this situation that has now been going on for just over two years. jd williams will not accept any lower payment nor are they willing to listen. they just keep adding charges to my account and getting debt collection agencies to send letters threatening cout action if not apid in full the day i recieve the letter and to contact them immediately if i have problems paying the full outstanding balance.

 

however when i do contact them they will not accept payment other than the full amount.

 

also, without my request, permission and knowledge jd williams also opened another credit account in my name just a week or so after the first one. i have used the catalogue but is this not legal?

 

what i really need to know:

 

1, is there any rules/laws etc in 2006 that would prevent me going the cca route.

 

2, does the 2004 electronic signiture valid on telephone applications or is it just on internet website applications?

 

3, does anyone know of any lawful reason why a catalogue company would not have a signed by me cca in 2006.

 

in my mind, if this company had any enforcable cca, then they would have started court preceedings ages ago surely. at present i am receiving letters from debt collectors at least one every 14 days threatening legal action for at least one full year.

 

does anyone know if this is the way it goes?

 

also as far as the signed cca is concern i am a little confused as 5 people i know at christmas all opened accounts with this company. all accounts were opened via the internet with the tick in the box but all 5 received cca's in the post either after items were despatched or just after recieving items to sign with t+c on the back. the have to sign and send back.

 

three of which have not been signed and accounts still running as norm.

 

anyone know factual info?

 

all help very great fully received.

 

cheers

i had the same with little woods,send them the cca request enclosing £1 po for the fee and send it recorded delivery a.s.a.p.

i agree that if they know they have the correct paper work for this acc you would have been in court by now!

does your threatograms say we may do this we may do that ?,this is usual lowlife threats to be taken with a pinch of salt.

if no cca after the 12+2 days then send them tha acc in despute and stop paying them until they supply your legal requirment cca.

letters in the template library.

[B3rty]

Hi

 

Glad to see you made it....lol

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force in December 2004 any online agreements entered into prior to this date still need a signed executed credit agreement.

 

Electronic signatures weren't considered valid until this date.I dont think over the phone is compliant but not sure

 

The SI is here: The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004

 

Also it would still have to contain all of the prescribed terms to be valid

 

I have just posted this in another thread as an alternative to the CCA request letter quoting Carey V HSBC

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re 12345678910

 

With reference to the above account, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I refer to the recent judgement in the Manchester Mercantile Court Carey v HSBC bank Ltd [2009] EWHC 3417 where Judge Waksman set new case law regarding copies of agreements under the CCA1974

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable.

 

The copy may be reconstituted from your records but must comply with the requirements set out in Carey V HSBC however I would prefer a photocopy of the original document

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days and after this time you must advise me whether you hold a copy on file after this period you may not enforce the agreement and I may withhold payment as in Casey V HSBC para 150

 

If the agreement has been varied you must supply a copy of the original along with the current terms and conditions Casey V HSBC para 108

 

If you provide a reconstituted copy you must advise me of this and explain why it may differ from the original as per para 57 and OFT draft Guidelines

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

[hillards]

dgs82: Have a look at threads which mention JD Williams, Simply Be or Reliable Collections. All the same company.

 

Lots of experience on CAG about dealing with these monkeys. Usually you send the £1 CCA request, they reply to say they can't find it, or don't reply and go into default, or reply and try to con you into signing a new CCA document.

 

Once they are in default you can reply to their next demand and point that out, then ignore them. They'll try phoning, sending more letters and all that, but they have to show that they have valid documentation that they would reply upon if they (ever) took a case to court.

 

You mention ticking a box on-line. Sadly, that can be seen has having a valid agreement for many who apply on-line, but you say you did yours on the phone, so the tick box option is not valid for them.

 

They are a greedy company who add charges to accounts when they are fully aware the customer is unable to make payments, often due to losing a job or whatever.

 

There are some areas that are unclear, like they took out a second agreement and you used the catalogue - why on earth do that? You had an account with them and using a second account could have it's own implications. That is muddying the waters a little.

 

People you know who have taken out new agreements have nothing to do with your case, so ignore that. It's not relevant.

 

All you can do is request the CCA, follow procedure, and see what they do. If you are getting demands from (un)Reliable then that's just in-house.

[dgs82]

hi all and thanks for your replies.

 

themagcian: yea its just the normal rubbish they write like "formal demand", "would like an amicable settlement" and "will not hesitate to commence legal proceedings". all of these things have been on every letter for over a year.

 

b3rty: yea i made it lol thanks for pointing me in the right direction with how to do a thread lol and that letter looks brilliant i had already downloaded and printed off my letter to the collectors but think i may use this one now. and thanks for the 2004 act will have a read through it.

 

hillards: i am not getting letters from reliable anymore they are bored of me ignoring them. it is a company in scotland however it is exactly the same useless threats as reliable. the reason i used the account was credit limit was low on both. i had just moved to a new place and needed domestic items. at the time i was in full time employment and was making regular monthly payments. they responded by increasing my credit accounts over 6 months to quite a large. unfortunatly end of summer 07 i was burguled so i used the accounts to help replace electricals. i was however quite sensible when buying and did not use all of the credit which in total of the accounts would have been well over £2000. mid 08 i lost my job and this is where the problems started. i have not paid them any money since at all since feb 09 11 months ago in protest to the lack of willingness to first of listen to me and secoundly to even consider my monthly repayment suggestions. had they of been helpful in the first place i would be paying them monthly installments to clear the debt and would not be writing this now.

 

after what i have read on this site in the last 24 hours and i ahve read a lot about 8 hours i have read altogether, i firmly believe that these company have no enforceable cca things would have been moving along before now in terms of legal proceedings considering that i have not paid any money for 11 months. i may be wrong we will see when i post the cca request to them first thing monday morning recorded delivery.

 

thanks again for the replies guys, all info is welcome. the more info the better.

 

will keep u all up to date

[dgs82]

o hillards,

 

i take your point on other peoples accounts with this company. however in my mind the fact they are sending out cca's for new customers to be signed, dated and then returned is a statement in itself. i.e. these tick box for this company is somewhat useless as why would they waste money and time sending out cca's if the tick box on the screen or even over the phone is a legal bidding cca that is enforceable?

 

i am not saying i am right, i may be very far from the truth and jumping the gun. it just strikes me as a little strange and bad bussiness sense to waste money obtaining something you already have in your records. this company mentioned above is greedy. they wouldnt waste money like that surely?

[SL8R]

This company, in my opinion is despicable. Their relentless disregard for peoples privacy and underfanded abuse of peoples knowledge of the law infuriates me.

They try an impose ( by their own right) intrest charges of 138% and involve debt collection companies, to collect on their part... parasites ( cant swear here, to tell you the real feelings).

[dgs82]

they most certainly are parasites. i take it u have acconts with these people?

[SL8R]

OH Yes.. these ppl anger me more than i can explain.

My mother was on her death dead, and these f****** N morons persisted in tryin to call the hospital to harras her. i got involved n told them where to go... but the harm they caused was not forgotten... after she died a week later.

Edited January 9, 2010 by SL8R

[dgs82]

that is sickening!!! but it does supprise me with this company. can i ask have u got anywhere with them and if so whats happened if u could it i would be very great full

[SL8R]

I simply told them that their interest rates were extorsonate, and no court in this country would uphold them, then told then to p***s of, not heard from them since.

 

They prey on people who fall into unfortunate situations and try to bleed them dry.... tell them to put up or shut up( that's polite). personally i would set fire to them all..... and laugh at them.

[dgs82]

i totally agree with you them taking advantage of people. esp with the elderly. an elderly family member who has had problems in the past with them has had an account for years. however, slowly but surely people are getting wise and learning how to challenge these people. i have learnt so much today about the cca law/rules. i am convinced the dont have a cca for me after what ive read. and i know for a fact they defo will not have one for my family member. lets hope you dont get bothered by them anymore.

Edited January 9, 2010 by dgs82

[SL8R]

i have re- read this thread from the start, and i appologise fro the confusion. I thought you were critisising my mother( who if it where yours) you would have been protective of?

 

Anyway i see what you are saying and appologise to you...

[ukaviator]

Ok i have unapproved a few posts. Glad you have seen the comments made were not aimed at you SL8R.

 

Lets shake hands and move on with the problem at hand.

[dgs82]

anymore experiences with jd williams requesting cca.

[just_jue]

Hi, we had jd williams chasing us via 1st credit, that has now been a year now and still no CCA arrived this end.

And they are not chasing us now

JJ

[SL8R]

Ok i have unapproved a few posts. Glad you have seen the comments made were not aimed at you SL8R.

 

Lets shake hands and move on with the problem at hand.

 

That would be good to move on however when i get pm's regarding my mother, (copy of which i shall forward to yourself) its hard to move on.

[dgs82]

when did open the account if you dont mind me asking and was it over the phone application? just trying to get as much info as possible.

[twofoot]

JDW made the news at ten last week. It showed inside theeir call centre. Out of 800 staff half didn't turn up for work. Said it was due to the snow but I suspect it was due to the dimwits not wanting to do their nasty job.

[pookeymonkey]

I hate these people too!!!

 

I am currently helping my wife deal with them as she is too unwell to cope.

 

They keep sending statements each month with massive interest and admin charges, even though I have CCAed them and got the usual piece of paper with no signature.

 

How can I get them to put up or shut up?

 

Should I write and tell them she has no intention of paying and to take her to Court or go away. I have been to Court over three of my cards and successfully defended each time so I am not worried about the prospect of this at all.

 

Pookey

[pookeymonkey]

Forgot, they charge each month for a 'Peace of Mind Plan' I assume this is PPI.

This must have been mis-sold as she has been unemployed for the last 8 year due to her health.

 

Pookey

[dgs82]

hi thanks pookey, i dont know about ppi's i am afraid.

 

from what i can make out, if you have sent a cca to jd williams, they have 12+2 to reply with either a legally signed cca that is enforceable or a letter informing of why they cannot provide this.

 

after the 12+2 days, if you have not recieved a enforcable cca then, as far as i am aware you are legally entittled to stop paying without further notice until such a time they can provide a cca.

 

at this point i would then write to them, i would say that i am not satisfied with the poor attempt to fulfill my legal request. i would tell them that i am not legally binded to any lawful cca which in effect means no outstanding debt. i i would also send a s.10 requesting them to give a detailed explanation of why they feel they have a legal right to share my personal data with third parties. i would then request that they immeditely stop sharing my data as there is no lawful reason as to why they are doing this.

 

(there are articles and legal terms of s.10 on this site, i cant remember all the info)

 

i would also consider sending a SAR.

 

thanks

[hillards]

o hillards,

 

i take your point on other peoples accounts with this company. however in my mind the fact they are sending out cca's for new customers to be signed, dated and then returned is a statement in itself. i.e. these tick box for this company is somewhat useless as why would they waste money and time sending out cca's if the tick box on the screen or even over the phone is a legal bidding cca that is enforceable?

 

i am not saying i am right, i may be very far from the truth and jumping the gun. it just strikes me as a little strange and bad bussiness sense to waste money obtaining something you already have in your records. this company mentioned above is greedy. they wouldnt waste money like that surely?

 

Sorry, missed this earlier

 

What they do is send out a document to sign so they make sure they have a legally binding agreement, rather than take any chances on not being able to find the original. Some people are daft enough to sign and return it.

[gressfjell]

This is a problem I have. In 2008 I bought goods from them because I was going abroad for a few months and paid upfront. No mention of credit agreement and I certainly didn't ask for one. Whilst abroad my mum told me that I had letters back home to say that I had a credit limit with them. That I hadn't asked for! Fair enough, I said, though I didn't plan to use it as I learnt my lesson a decade earlier, in my early twenties, with store card debt. Well whilst abroad I went through a bad break up with my then boyfriend and before I got back I also had experienced a traumatic phsycial injury. I decided to 'treat myself' to some nice new clothes using the credit, after all, it can't hurt right? Fast forward to 2010 and as quickly as I was paying off the limit I had, they were putting it up. It started at just £150 and was over 2,000 by last year. At one point I was paying them £150 a month just to try to pay it off but the interest kept accruing. Anyway I am now in 2,250 debt to them and they are trying to get repayments.

My query is - I know what I'm like when it comes to store credit, hence why I didn't ask for credit and paid upfront for the goods. I was fine for ages but then a little vulnerability/crisis in my life and bang they had me by the short and curlies. Personally I think it should be illegal. They have effectively committed fraud by opening a credit account without my knowledge. There was honestly no mention at the time I paid for the goods, I wouldn't have done it otherwise. Yes I shouldn't have ordered anything from them but it's human nature to do that and these sick companies prey on human nature. If I had asked for credit then I would take responsibility but I didn't even ask for it in the first place, and feel positively shafted.

What can I do, if anything??