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    • I have recently found myself in financial difficulties and with the help of forum members in another thread regarding this, I think I can get myself sorted. My query here is how to deal with a Cifas marker that has been logged against me by one of my creditors for "evasion of payment". Admittedly yes I did get a £5000 loan with them and have not paid any payment but at the start of the year, which is when the loan landed, I realised I was going to be struggling to repay that and other debts and I contacted MCB to ask if there was any way I could extend the loan from 24 months to 36 months. I explained my situation and that I was going with a DMP and asked them if they could help me with this. They did not reply. I then emailed them again a month later explaining that my DMP was going ahead and could they confirm that the direct debit was indeed cancelled. Again, they did not reply. The DMP fell apart and so did everything else thereafter. My bank withdrew my overdraft and said I could not stay with them (I thought initially that it was because of the DMP) so I opened another account (Starling) and set up all my direct debits etc with the new bank. A month into being with the new bank, they contacted me and said they were closing my account in three months. So I started applying for other basic accounts and every single one of them either refused or revoked.  Through the help in the other thread, I requested a SAR from Cifas and discovered that I have this marker against my name for "evasion of payment". I have logged a complaint with MCB on the advice of other forum members, but my query really is do you think the marker is fair given that I did ask them for help and I did explain that I was going to be struggling financially to repay the loan over the original two years, and is there any way that I can get it removed? I fully admit that I have yet to make a payment to them and I suppose in my naivety and panic I thought if I emailed them early on they could extend the loan and help me out, but they didn't even reply  I did manage to open an account with Monzo before the marker was in place, but I am very concerned that if Monzo do what Starling did, I will have no bank account to pay my bills or get my wages paid into.  Realistically based on the information I have given here, what do you think my chances are of getting this marker removed? Any help/advice on this would be greatly appreciated x
    • Thank you dx, that is what I intend to do now. I have gone through all the SAR documents, a lot of which I am seeing for the first time! As per my previous post #116 letters and statements alleged to have been sent to me, as recorded on their system notes I have not received. Letters I have sent requesting information and account statements have not been recorded as being received by them, all were sent either by Recorded or Special Delivery. I have all the proof you menrtioned from my files for payments and from their SAR info for fees added. Thanks t
    • In my experience (not with car payments) but with many other things, my partner has been ill and signed off in the past and we have been unable to meet various commitments.  Naturally if you ring the call centre they are going to fob you off and tell you you must pay, that's why that never ever works. I would obtain a note from her GP listing all her health issues plus medications plus side effects, then write to the finance company with a copy of it, explaining the situation, as you have here, asking for a payment holiday. Perhaps mention that the car is very much needed for hospital appointments etc. It's likely the finance company would rather you pay till term end than, chase you for money they will never see, and sell the car at auction for a loss,  You can search some of my threads going back years, advising people to do this for Council Tax, Tax Credits, HMRC, Even a solicitors company and it always works, because contrary to popular belief people are reasonable.
    • Sorry, I haven't ever seen one of these agreements. Read it all and look out for anything that says when she can withdraw and when she is committed to go ahead. If it isn't clear she may need to call the housing provider and simply say what you posted here, she doesn't want to go ahead and how does she withdraw her swap application?
    • Thank you! Your head is like a power bank of knowledge.  Her health issues are short term, due to a relationship breakdown she took it pretty hard and has been signed off work on medication for 3 months. She only started her job in February 24 so does not qualify for any occupational sick benefits, which is where the ssp only comes in. (You will see me posting a few things over the coming days, whilst I try and sort some things for her)  I sat with her last night relaying all this back and she does want to work out a plan, she was ready to propose £100 for the next 3 months and then an additional £70 per month onto of her contractual to "catch up" but Money247 rejecting the payment holiday and demanding £200 thew her, which is why I came on here.   
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Sacked after disciplinary hearing


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I'm writing on behalf of a friend

 

On xmas eve he recieved a letter from his HR department notifying of a Disciplinary hearing. This was set for Today (29/12/09 The next working day)

 

At the meeting was my friend and the meeting was chaired by his manager and a HR rep.

 

My friends manager is not neutral as he was the complainent and was responsible for the meeting.

 

At the meeting my friend was told that he was to be disciplined over Punctuality however the shift start time had been extended by the previous manager due to out of area travelling time.

 

My friend had a final written warning over 12 months ago for a unrelated issue

 

At this meeting my friend was given a first written warning for Time keeping but as he had a final warning he was dismissed even though the time keeping had been authorised by previous manager.

 

The speed with which this was done looks fishy and it looks like the manager has organised the dismissal.

 

 

1st witten warning was over 3 years ago

2nd was over 12 months ago and was due to audit and procedure(he had just taken over a new site and was finding his feet)

 

My friend had legitimate answers to pretty much all points made at the meeting such as collecting stock from other depots on the way in to work.

 

 

Any Ideas or suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance

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He should most certainly appeal. What does the company disciplinary policy say about how long final written warnings should stay on employees files? In most cases it is 12 months and then it must be removed from the file so it cannot be taken into consideration in any new disciplinary action after the 12 months.

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He should most certainly appeal. What does the company disciplinary policy say about how long final written warnings should stay on employees files? In most cases it is 12 months and then it must be removed from the file so it cannot be taken into consideration in any new disciplinary action after the 12 months.

 

We have just read the companie Disciplinary policy.

 

Its states that a written warning will stay on file for 6 months and a final will be on for 12 months.

 

His 1st written warning was 3 yrs ago and his final was over 12 months ago.

 

Does that mean his first was spent so his final shouldnt have been a final but instead another first. which then IF spent would mean this latest one would be either his 2nd/final or if spent it would be another 1st written warning.

 

EDIT: There was an adjournment but that was just for the manager to phone the previous manger to confirm that the arrangemnt had been made. This was confirmed but didnt make any differance.

 

Another point was by the time my friend got back to his depot to collect his things replacement staff were already there

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OK, he should get his appeal letter in asap giving the grounds as unfair dismissal. He can then prepare his case once he knows the date of the appeal hearing. If he needs help with the letter let me know.

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This should be appealed on the grounds that the manager failed to follow company rules.

One does not appeal a disc hearing outcome on grounds of unfair dismissal

All previous warnings are spent and thefore should not be taken into account. The manager failed to follow that part of his companies procedure, therfore the dismissal is likely to result in a complaint to the ET for unfair dismissal. Until the companies procedure is followed regarding appeal there are no grounds for unfair dismissal as a higher manager can reverse the original decision

However little ego maniacs tend to get appeals rubber stamped. Should make for a very short employment tribunal hearing

Edited by cynic09
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Sounds very fishy. I second what everyone's said, the disciplinaries are spent.

What size is this business?

 

Very

Its a national tyre fitting company

 

He loves his job started 8 yrs ago and worked his way up to a depot manager and go to guy.

 

He gets moved around to differant depots that are failing and turns them around.

His old area manager was trying to get him back under his area but he was sticking with the project he had at the time. All the staff are amazed and other depot mangers are shocked.

 

He depot is the only one to make/beat budget every month for the last 12 months. He has turned around all his previous depots.

 

This new area manger has only been with the company 3 months'ish and has come from another trade.

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Has he recieeved written notification of his dismissal yet?

Once he does, he needs to put in a letter requesting an appeal.

It amazes me how relatively large companies with HR depts can get it so badly wrong.

Particularly so when an HR exec was present at the meeting - you'd think they would have the authority to step in and stop the manager behaving in such a way.

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Has he recieeved written notification of his dismissal yet?

Once he does, he needs to put in a letter requesting an appeal.

It amazes me how relatively large companies with HR depts can get it so badly wrong.

Particularly so when an HR exec was present at the meeting - you'd think they would have the authority to step in and stop the manager behaving in such a way.

 

You'd think so wouldnt you:-o

 

The hearing was this morning so he doesnt have it in writting yet.

 

He's getting notice pay na holiday pay so at least its not gross misconduct.

 

He is a top performer in the company and this came as a big shock through the depots that know him.

 

We are wondering now if its this new area manager flexing his muscles to the effect of "i can sack him i can sack any of you" type of thing.

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Unfortunately if he has not followed procedure and your friend has been unfairly dismissed, all the new manager will be flexing is his own stupidity !

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:

 

He has had his outcome letter today.

 

He has been sacked for misconduct namely poor timekeeping.

 

He was given a written warning but as he had a final on file.(which we are struggling to get a date on) He was dismissed.

 

He has NOT had a verbal warning for poor timekeeping his manger has spoken to him about his timekeeping but nothing official.

 

 

Does this help his case any.

 

 

In our appeal letter do we draft it like court bundle/witness statement or do we just list the basics.

Ie I want to appeal the decision.

 

Company policy is to work with the employee to sort out any problems

 

There are breaches of the policy but not sure how serious they are.

 

We also think this may have been rushed through as his final written warning may have still been live. is there a grace period could a final warning be taken into consideration the day before its due to be removed

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If your friend says he only received an unofficial verbal warning from his previous manager and that the timings had been agreed, it may be worth contacting the previous manager to find out if he'll be willing to testify to the unofficial warning and also your friends resumption time. Note that this will be easier to achieve if the previous manager is no longer with the company as most employees are reluctant to get involved in matters like this.

Edited by dx_
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You only have to draft your letter of appeal in minimal detail. Have a look at the ACAS guidelines.

Might be worth asking the employer to produce copies of these previous warnings tho and also the timekeeping records that indicate this awful timekeeping. Not unknown for the new guy to go off on one because you turn up late on his first day, even if it happens to be the first time your late in ten years.

Disc hearings are meant to be factual, not opinions

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Another point worth noting, his letter on xmas eve should contain some detail of matters to be discussed and also confirm that it's a disciplinary hearing and that your friend is entitled to be accompanied.

Procedural but can make life difficult for little egos who ambush employees

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You only have to draft your letter of appeal in minimal detail. Have a look at the ACAS guidelines.

Might be worth asking the employer to produce copies of these previous warnings tho and also the timekeeping records that indicate this awful timekeeping. Not unknown for the new guy to go off on one because you turn up late on his first day, even if it happens to be the first time your late in ten years.

Disc hearings are meant to be factual, not opinions

 

 

Thanks unfortunatly its not the first time he's been late

 

Its happened a few times although nothing has been done officially.

 

It says in the transcript of the hearing that the area manager feels he has exhausted all avenues when he clearly hasnt. There were more options open to him but he chose not to take those route.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Did his letter indicate the potential outcome of the hearing could be gross-misconduct?

 

I would also request FULL disclosure of his personnel file, if they refuse you can submit a SAR under the Data Protection Act. Just so you can be sure regarding this previous final warning (dates) etc.

 

I would call ACAS for advice, visit the CAB and potentially talk to a solicitor about this but only after speaking to the others first.

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

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Sorry dont ya just hate it when people dont update threads:D

 

He had his appeal hearing on monday, and at the same time his ex manager was in the same building doing 3 other hearings (i see a pattern emerging)

 

my Friend was pretty happy after the meeting with the feeling between himself and another manager who went with him that it was very positive.

 

especially when the director put a stop to the other hearings and was shocked that ALL the other managers in the area are scared for their jobs.

 

the director admitted he would have used personal improvement plans to sort the situation, because they work.

 

 

A letter with the outcome is on its way. Fingers crossed

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