ATOS thread

[F_DCAs]

I had an assessment through ATOS (for ESA) a few weeks ago.

 

Expecting the worst, having already had a first assessment a couple of years before, and being rejected due to a pack of lies, I audio-recorded the whole thing this time around.

 

Now, I have evidence (the device I recorded it on also saves the time and date the recording was taken) that their report is inaccurate and misrepresentational.

 

I'd encourage anyone attending an ATOS assessment to do this (same way that collection agency/bailiff calls should always be recorded). ATOS simply cannot be trusted, and seem to lie incessantly on an even grander scale than bailiffs or debt collectors.

 

I also believe that the government is entirely aware of what ATOS is doing, and is letting it continue. Still, they did lie us into a war, so I'm not surprised they'd persecute the sick and then lie about that as well.

[loopinlouie]

Hear hear, I agree. As soon to be transfered from single parent status to incapacity benefit I expect to have one of these interviews in new year and will also record it.

 

Just one plus I have been anxious about travelling to it as the atos offices were over 30 miles away and cant go out on own, so taxi was going to have to be yes, but found out they have opened up base in my town, thank god.

[honeybee13]

Recording the assessment sounds a great idea. Did you tell them you were recording it?

 

Having had an ATOS assessment myself, I would also recommend not to go alone, if someone you trust will come with you.

[F_DCAs]

No, I didn't tell them. I don't have to. ATOS will give you some lying, fob-off excuse if you told them what you were doing.

 

ATOS now has a reputation for lying, and I think if everyone called in for an assessment did record them, they'd have no credibility to do what they're doing.

 

I record any and every dealing I have with banks, DCAs, companies or otherwise. Being lied to becomes tiring after a while.

Edited December 15, 2009 by F_DCAs

[F_DCAs]

I'd very highly recommend that the assessment is audio-recorded also (dictaphone or mobile in the shirt pocket). I went for an ATOS test a few months ago, and wasn't surprised to find out that they lied completely in their report back to the DWP.

 

5 or 6 NHS professionals - all of whom I have seen more than six times over a piece - were of the opinion that I should not be working.

 

ATOS had other ideas - their doctor (I wasn't even sure he WAS a doctor), who I never saw before, and spent no more than 20 minutes with, seems to be of the contrary opinion.

 

Strange that the DWP would take his less-than-credible word over 5 or 6 doctors, including two specialists - what are the chances of that?

 

(edit)

Edited December 16, 2009 by ErikaPNP
please refer to section 3.12 of the forum rules

[F_DCAs]

I audio-recorded my ATOS interview, and strongly recommend anyone else does the same.

[kurvaface]

 

Strange that the DWP would take his less-than-credible word over 5 or 6 doctors, including two specialists - what are the chances of that?

 

 

 

True, especially when you look at the qualifications and experience of the doctors who typically work there. Put it this way, and with total sympathy for your situation Natalie, just be glad they aren't actually treating anyone.

[george1961]

I know this might not help short term but i would advise as many people as possible to write and complain to atos about their hcps.Try and get your mp involved because the only way atos will be stopped is if enough people complain and take their complaints as far as possible then the government will eventually sit up and take notice.Mp,s wont like having to work for their money so make sure they are involved.

This is happening all over the uk and i dont believe for a minute that its by chance that so many people are getting declined for benefits after visiting an hcp employed by atos.

I think it is time for people to start to fight back , contact everybody you think might help your case ,automaticaly complain against the dr that done your medical get your mp involved.

I get so angry when i read sites like this , that atos seems to have the governments blessing to do this and get away with it.

[F_DCAs]

So, we are to assume that the government doesn't trust NHS professionals. Not if it takes the word of one guy with questionable qualifications over the word of 5 NHS staff, including two specialists.

[F_DCAs]

Agree with that. It's happening on a wider scale than the public are generally aware of.

 

TBH - I hate this government with a passion, and one of the main reasons why is for the sanctimonious, patronising 'It's for the common good' manner it always displays whenever it puts the boot into a group of people - usually those who find it diificult to fight back.

 

They don't play fair, so why should we? Hence the idea of audio-recording to catch them out.

 

I also read that ATOS were prosecuted in America for the same thing. Nice that the government has chosen such a fine, upstanding company to do its dirty work.

[F_DCAs]

Further to what was said before, I believe the government are practicing human rights violation and victimisation by the backdoor on a grand scale in using ATOS.

 

Though we've had a few local newspaper articles regarding ATOS, nothing's been said nationally and the government have not been called out on it to explain this. The issue certainly deserves wider attention than it currently has.

 

As has been said before, I'd be very worried if the shady ATOS doctors were looking after my health - especially when no-one has any clue of what medical credibility they have. Moreso when the DWP and ATOS are less than willing to explain themselves, or what kind of contract they have in place.

 

When you have terminal cancer cases being kicked off the sick, purely for political expediency or profits in the coffers of an evasive private conglomerate, it's not just unfeeling cost-cutting - it's pure evil.

 

And it's worse still in that the people who this system was supposed to root out, are left alone.

Edited December 17, 2009 by F_DCAs

[george1961]

Iam fighting my own case against atos just now.

My case against their hcp is rock solid so it will be interesting to see what their reply is.

In-between my fight against them i have found information that might force them to change the way they do the medicals but i dont want to say too much too soon (its possibly a legal issue).

When i get the reply from them i will let you know how i got on. I am actually interested to see if they will still back their doctor so as soon as i find out i will let you all know.The one good thing to come out of this is that i am actually training to become a volunteer in an advice centre.If i can help one other person to fight atos/dwp then it will be worth it

[F_DCAs]

Ideally, I'd prefer it if it went back to the old DWP appraisal system, whereby the word of one doctor was enough. Now, I've found that it's completely irrelevant no matter how many doctors or specialists are involved, and that's an absolutely scandalous state of affairs.

 

By using ATOS to do what the DWP should be doing, the government is also acknowledging that it has mismanaged the DWP (as well as the NHS) to the point where it doesn't trust the DWP either.

 

And if the government trusts both the NHS or DWP so little, then why have the NHS or DWP around at all - if the word of a shady (and at best elusive and secretive!) private conglomerate triumphs over all?

[ErikaPNP]

There are far too many member's threads being hijacked in regard to ATOS. Whilst the benefit of others' experiences/opinions can be beneficial, it can also be detrimental, particularly where people are already worried about their upcoming assessments. For this reason, this new thread has been created from some merging other posts to discuss ATOS, as an issue seperately.

 

Please bear in mind that we all have our own experiences and opinions, and although this can be a highly charged issue, we have to be mindful of what we post in an open forum. Please ensure the site rules are read before posting.

 

There is also a petition which some of you may be interested in.

[F_DCAs]

Agreed. Sorry about that - just I had an ATOS assessment (as previously stated), which I'm very sore about, and think that the matter does deserve attention. No harm meant to anyone on these boards, and I apologise if any has been caused by this.

[ErikaPNP]

It's no problem. Easy to get carried away when you have a bad experience with a company - and you naturally want to warn people. Whilst it is absolutely fine to discuss our own experiences, it's not fair to other posters when their threads are taken over by this. This always happens with ATOS threads, which makes one thing clear:

 

ATOS needs it's own thread, where the issues which go along with it can be discussed and experiences shared, without detracting from the OP in other threads.

[Stirling2005]

I know of a chap who told them beforehand he had 28" biceps yet when he attended their blood pressure cuff thing would not go around his arm. They are no more than quacks. He has been awaiting an MRI scan for 9 months as they dont have machine his shoulders will fit in now this ultimate humiliation. He remains haviong fits/blackouts and the 'medical assessment' was nothing of the sort and served no helpful purpose beyond no doubt the DWP hoping to starve him out. He cannot drive HGV's as he is having the fits....

Edited December 21, 2009 by ErikaPNP
please refer to section 3.12 of the forum rules

[george1961]

Is this the atos thread ?

If it is could anybody show me how i can find the information about atos being fined in America.

Thanks

[Stirling2005]

ATOS just part of problem. Update from 21st December - ATOS info had apparently not been received so DWP mandatory interview lot placed him in work focused interview group. They arranged a taxi which arrived 30 minutes early today. Chap could not get in as he was too big taxi firm left him at roadside in cold. Over 45 minutes later mandatory interview lot on partners phone quizing her as to him whereabouts. On going outside she found him collapsed on the grass. He had been lying there all that time. No further taxi had called. A strong complaint to mandatory interview lot revealed he should have been placed in support group as unfit to work yet 27 days later the info had seemingly not been passed on. Article 3 of human rights act clearly states "No one shall be subjected to torture or degrading treatment or punishment". It is hard to see what more he could have done to assist matters and this has hardly helped him get better.

[bygsign]

hello all,

have just been through the mill with this atos medical and then tribunal rubbish, as my condition has worsened since the last medical which i failed? passed? i dunno? i'm in a position where i have to make another claim for exactly the same benefit (ESA) which i was claiming a year ago before some doctor claimed (amongst other things) that i suffered from giggleing as a side effect of the medication? i know! strange! without explaining my personal problems too much you can guess what other rubbish they put!

i went to a tribunal, i was tough, and when i got there they claimed the doctor didn't say half the things he wrote down on the report, and didn't believe that what i told the doctor was definately not what he put in his report!

SO WHAT I'M PLANNING THIS TIME IS TAKING MY MP3 PLAYER IN AND MAKING A RECORDING OF THE MEDICAL

as i understand it is illegal to record someone without their knowledge? i am planning on making this fact very clear to them, i put it on the form, and i'm going to make them sign a written statement that they have no problems with me using the recording as further later evidence.

ANYBODY TRIED ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE?

and anybody got any idea of what kind of reaction i should get off them!

 

i remember clearly the doctor pointing out that it wasn't upto them the outcome of the medical, it was the computer system, when you been to a tribunal it makes you think about a law degree and why you was honest?

never give up!

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Edited January 20, 2010 by ErikaPNP
please adhere to the forum rules

[F_DCAs]

Pesonally, I would just go ahead and record without telling them.

 

What are they going to do?

 

Fine you? Because of ATOS, your income's just been seriously impeded.

 

Or jail you? The prisons are full up already.

 

ATOS don't play fair - as you've found out - so why should anyone who has to deal with them?

Edited January 20, 2010 by F_DCAs

[honeybee13]

From threads on the employment forum, I don't think recording the meeting is a problem. Employment tribunals have accepted transcripts of meetings, when they were made by the appellant.

[george1961]

My wife had to go for a medical the other day.

When we arrived we were told that there was a 40 min delay,i told the receptionist that i dad parked the car in a parking bay for two hours and going by the delay i would end up getting a ticket, she told me i could go out and put extra money in the meter but i told her no and if she wanted us to stay then she could give me the money , she then said she could re-arrange the medical but i told her we wouldnt be comeing back,she went and spoke to her supervisor who then said we would get the medical on time (and we did)

When we went into the medical i asked the hcp if she was a qualified dr and she said no she was a nurse, i then asked her what her qualifications were and she explained she was trained by atos.

I then told her i would be taking notes and querying any of the questions she asked my wife.

She let for about 15 mins and came back with a note,she went on to tell me about the data protection act but i told her i knew about it.

I also informed her that i had an outstanding complaint against an atos hcp and i would be obtaining a copy of her report to make sure she put down what my wife told her as this was one of the problems people have with atos.

I have to admit that she was very plesant and it seemed if she understood my wifes condition.

It will be interesting to see what she has put down in the report as i warned her if her report in anyway is false i would be taking it further.

She knows i took notes on my wifes responses to her questions so there cant be any mistakes.I will wait and see how it goes and i will keep you all informed.

Cheers George

[bygsign]

yep, i got a bit into this last night, apparently ATOS have some rules, that with agreement with the courts, the only way you can record the evidence and use it as evidence is to use a dual tape recorder of their specification (and a better spec than the police use", that has been aproved by a sound engineer, no more than 30 minutes before the interview? well if your interview is delayed 45 mins, this is not possible! so have found this link DWP ESA Medical Examinations where some guy has been documenting all his experiences over the last year, he even by the looks of things got offered £100 by ATOS to keep his mouth shut! but like myself, it's obvious he's got nothing to loose, so is now pushing to take this to the high court in london!

what he's done is real clever, but to be honest, theres a few golden nuggets in there, that if everyone was to put on their medical assesment forms would cause them so much work!

sending a cover letter stating "please provide the name of the qualified health proffesional who will review the imformation i have provided to decide on a face to face meeting" "and that i may wish to independantly check with the GMC that the individual is qualified"

"i must stress the the importance that in order for a valid assesment to be made the qualified healthcare proffesional must contact my gp and consultant" the crux of this is they have a contract with the DWP to reply within 2 days, and answer in 20 days, which they never do! and hence breaking the contract before they started!

the other point to make, is that if at any point an ATOS employee terms you as a "customer" ask them their name and write a letter of complaint as they have a legal and contractual obligation to refer to you as "claimant" or "patient" even more proof that they have no clue what they are doing!

be warned too! if you don't play their game, they can mark you down just for being uncooperative!

am just about to start the letter to the upper tribunal now, but they seem to be in the same boat as atos when it comes to being economical with the truth!

all of this makes me feel quite sick, but best advice seems to be take someone with you, and make them feel as intimidated as you do! i can imagine they hate nothing more than someones mom peering over their shoulder checking all the answers they put?

good luck all!

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[Slightly foxed]

I read this here: BBC - Ouch! (disability) - Messageboard Ouch! Talk - Failed ESA medical!

"ATOS's official criteria is that you may not record anything unless you have professional equipment, using dual decks, calibrated by a professional sound engineer directly before the exam (as said, this is more exacting than the police use) and if they notice you using any other form of recording device, they will stop the interview (and, unofficially, mark you down as refusing to cooperate)." Apparently someone did just that and you can read what happened on the Benefits and Work site. I haven't read it myself as I'm no longer a paid up subscriber to that site. I'd still record it secretly, if only for my own satisfaction.