i'am a landlord - got £6000 Electricity bill for 6yrs when i/tenants did not inform company of tenancies **WON they gave up**

[shining Light]

"Though it is sensible to give a meter reading to your supplier when you move in there is no compulsion to do this - it is up to the supplier to read meters and to confirm the occupier."

 

Madness! How will any supplier know when there has been a change of residence? Not giving a meter reading when moving out/moving in is what causes so many problems such as this. Personally, I give readings every 2 mths and don't have any problems, I can also see if my acct is in credit or debit and adjust accordingly.

 

Also, no company is going to leave a property 6 yrs without reading a meter. If after several attempts they have been unable to gain access to a meter, a card will normally be left asking for an appt and eventually, if there is still no response, I believe the company can enter a property with a warrant. I'm sure I will be corrected if this is not the case.

 

Unfortunately a common problem, particularly with rented properties is for the occupants to avoid everything and then move out, leaving someone else to sort out the mess.

 

Certainly if I were a landlord I would personally notify the gas, electric & phone company of every change of tenancy, it's called "covering your a**e.

Edited December 15, 2009 by shining Light

[nottslad]

hurrah someone sees the (shining) light!!!

 

If the supplier were to make these visits all the time, the cost would undoubtedly be passed onto the consumer making bills for all more expensive.

 

The retail arm of EON uk (the guys who sell gas and electric to residential and sme properties) are due to make a profit in the uk for the first time this year (other areas of the business have made profits e.g. distribution through selling on to other suppliers) and at the end of the day, energy suppliers are commercial enterprises just like your internet or mobile phone company.

 

They exist to make a profit, whilst the old days of pre-privtisation may have seemed better in many ways, you cant deny that problems still happened, as they did. I can remember the old East Midlands Electricity Board days and it was just as bad, if not worse as the industry wasn't as closely regulated, people were being disconnected more frequently for a start.

 

Yes, energy bills are high, I have to pay them myself lol.

 

HPMum have you spoken to your supplier regarding the billing code yet? I really do feel that it wont apply here as they were billing the occupier or the customer, even though they didnt have the name. If they haven't attempted to even read the meter then the code will apply, as this is a regulatory requirement, and if you request a copy of the dataflows D10 and D0004 then this will confirm whether the meter was read or not. a D0004 is a piece of information received from the Data Collector giving a reason where there is no read availabale, and a D10 gives the details of any meter reads.

 

Shining light, with your point about forcing access to read a meter, this is very rare with electricity unless tampering is suspected, however it does happen with gas

[pelham9]

Shining Light,

 

Madness! How will any supplier know when there has been a change of residence?

 

By having proper systems in place and interpreting the signs and above all investigating. If they did this as a routine the Billing Code would never be invoked.

 

Let us see what happens when neither the new (Jones) nor the old (Smith) occupant informs the utility of a takeover. They are not as sensible as you or I and it does not occur to them that it would be wise to do so - it may be that for Jones it is his first move from the family home where he had no reason to understand utilities meters etc and he continues to use the utilities without reponsibility (!) as previously.

 

The next bill will be addressed to Smith. Jones who is now the occupant will send it back marked 'not at this address' because he knows it is illegal to open a post to someone else. Immediately the utility knows there is a problem and this should then trigger enquiries by phone, letter to the occupant or dare I say it a visit to the property i.e. the situation needs to be investigated. But the only system they appear to have for returned mail is the shredder. If Jones bins the bill or ignores it the bill will not be paid and this is another trigger for investigation. They assume that Smith has not paid this bill and their systems miss the possibility that there has been an occupancy changeover. Instead reminders and eventually enforcemrnt procedings are taken against Smith who knows nothing about the unpaid bills. Eventually the utility will realise there is a problem and deal with it blaming everybody but themseves.

 

I am not suggesting that it is not sensible for Smith and then Jones to inform the supplier of the occupancy changeover but the utilities have no right to expect them to do so and must have adequate systems to deal with the difficulties of deened contracts. There has been no attempt to educate the public on how to deal with the supplier since deemed contracts were allowed - previously it was impossible to get a supply without termination and a new contract. Naturally you and I would inform the utilities as a matter of course of the changeover and the meter readings but remember that we are sensible enough to write a coherent post whereas many customers cannot even read and meter reading is difficult. Like you I send meter readings at quarterly intervals on-line. Unlike you I pay quarterly in arrears as I do not find that the convenience of DDs and the discount adequately compensates for financing their cash flow.

 

Problems with new builds are even worse because the systems are not in place to do the necessary checks. New builds often have plot number addresses which will be replaced by a Royal Mail postal address hopefully before a new occupant takes over. The utilities have contracted with the distributor to use a particular meter and it beats me how thay can supply that meter for years without a bill being sent to the correct postal address ( bills returned 'no such address' ) without their computers making a fuss which must be investigated. There are many other problems associated with the supply to newbuilds and you need to read around on this forum to realise how bad the situation is.

 

Is it the responsibilty of customers builders and even the Royal Mail to ensure that they do not make such errors? - I think not.

[shining Light]

Pelham9, you have some valid points but all the same, everybody knows gas and electric are not "Free" so if you have lived in a property for 2 or 3 months and not received a bill then surely anybody with an ounce of common sense would query it? And if you have been receiving bills in another name that is another clue that something is wrong (I do believe however that most gas/electric bills do not have the suppliers name on the envelope so they wouldn't know who to send it back to unless they opened it).

 

Energy companies generally sub contract the meter reading process to other companies who will make many attempts to read the meter. If unsuccessful they generally have dedicated staff who will call "out of hours" to read the meter, ie early morning, evenings and the w/e and if that doesn't work, a card is left requesting or even making an appointed time for a visit. This cost is then passed onto the supplier and probably their customers too. What else can they do?

 

Unfortunately today, it seems people never want to accept any responsibilty for their actions or lack of (and i'm not just referring to energy problems), its always easier to do nothing and then blame the other party when things go "pear shaped."

[HP Mum]

hi

I just thought I would add an update on this situation.

 

It is still on going !!

 

Letters have been going backwards and forwards for 6 months.

 

At times I have felt like pulling my hair out.

For example: I found one 2-year contract (the 1st) and supplied it to the supplier. They then wrote a stroppy letter reminding me that they had received nothing. I wrote back advising them of the details on the delivery.

 

I received another letter with a few other threats, to which I replied. I then received an extremely stroppy letter saying that at no such time have they ever received a copy of this tenancy contract I keep mentioning, yet in the next paragraph they mention the name of the tenant...

 

They maintained that they had records of a tenant, but only for part of the period I was saying the property was rented and they wanted me to be held liable for the alleged questionable period. They then sent another bill, suddenly showing an end reading after a 1 year tenancy and generated a new bill using this "newly found" reading. Of course I sent another reminder letter with proof of delivery etc.

 

Then I got an apology....from someone else (prob the boss of the previous person assigned to deal with me) ... and conflicting info saying they had taken no readings for 4 years!!!

 

I then got a bill through the door addressed to the tenant in the contract who had left 5 years ago !! with an imaginary end reading !! And another revised bill addressed to me, with an imaginary start and end reading, and which also failed to take into account any payments I had made.

Absolutely unbelievable.

 

This whole scenario has been very interesting to see how the supplier has kept changing stories and not answering my questions. At first they said they had no readings. Then they said they had some and gave dates. Then those dates changed.

 

They kept sending threats of disconnection. And each time I would write back and point out their discrepancies. Plus, I kept giving them current meter readings so that I could be seen to be a responsible consumer .

 

I got busy with moving and life and trying to search for old docs in boxes in cramped storage was not high on my list of priorities... However, during the move I finally found some crumpled old TAs that I didn't even know I had. They didn't cover all the periods - there are some void periods where the property was empty - but I sent them off and am still waiting to hear back...

 

I haven't bothered to dig out old bank statements to prove receipt of funds etc, but am now wondering if they will ask for this too ?? Or are those details covered by data protection (mine & tenants) ?

 

It will now be interesting to see how the supplier responds.

[HP Mum]

Hah Hah - they have given up ***WON ***

 

Finally after 8 months of letter writing and trying to get to the bottom of all the facts and figures, they have taken a business decision to wipe out all the old debts on the property account and... I don't have to pay anything. Yippee. Persistence pays.

 

Lesson learnt though: I made sure I and the clerk took readings at start of recent tenancy !!

[kiptower]

great news HP mum

[Surfer01]

Hopefully, in future, you will make a note to advise the tenant in writing preferably on the tenancy agreement, that they are responsibile for all utility charges and that as part of their tenancy they need to notify you who the supplier is for telephone, electric, gas and water and this has to be done within "x" number of weeks after moving into the property. Also take readings on the day they move in. Probably save you a lot of hassle in the future.

[verycatchy7939]

this so simple to sort out, just provide the details of your tennacy and when you took over supply, eg you legal tennacy agreement.They will them estimate a start read and bill up to your up to date read. Then ask them to send the other bill to your landlord who has a responsiblity under law to tell them whne it was his responsiblity, when empty and when it was occuiped and by whom. this scernio is is covered in the utlities act 1999, that defulated to european regulations in 2001.