What to do when the debt collectors start bugging you...... What they won't tell you!

[nuke em]

What won't they tell me ?.... Read On

 

 

The process of confiscation and illegal siezsure of money and property starts with the banks' illegal creation of money and ends with the bottom feeders - the debt collectors who prey on those who are down and out. The debt collectors, comprised of lawyers and debt collection agents feed on the accounts that have been written off by the banks. The debt collection process starts from the banks' own collection departments as soon as the accounts becomes delinquent. The banks' own collection agents start sending written notices and reminders to let you know that you have missed a few payments or soon after, they let you know that your account is past overdue. They still have to do this inspite of the fact that the banks actually never loaned you any money and the loan was nothing but a [problem], a fraudulent scheme to turn you into a debt slave and then confiscate your property despite the fact that they never really risked or lost any money in the process. They had to go through the charade not because they have lost any money or that they could lose the money because you cannot pay your so-called debts, but the real reason is: they don't want to blow their cover! So they go on pretending, threatening you in the process, that they will report the matter to the credit bureau and thus ruin your credit, or that they are going to take legal action against you. Usually it's all smoke. Other than the fact that they will report you to the credit bureau, if they haven't done it already, they don't normally take anyone to court just yet. Debt collectors cannot take you to court simply because you do not have a contract with them and they do not own the accounts.

 

The next step is the bank writing off the over due account, usually after six months. The reason is, it is very expensive and time consuming for the banks to do debt collection themselves and therefore they prefer to throw the account into the "pile", or the over due account database just like garbage being thrown overboard from a ship, where the bottom-feeding creatures feast on the garbage. Once the account is in the database and fully accessible to the debt collectors, they sign in on the account one at a time and start their dirty work. Some credit card companies like MBNAA employ its own army of debt collection agents and staff lawyers who do nothing but debt collection work. These corporations seldom initially use outside collection agents to do the dirty work, they prefer to do it themselves. Most banks however simply assign the debt collection work to the debt collection agencies. Some collection agencies actually buy or trade accounts. .. imagine that!!

 

What to do when the debt collectors start bugging you.

 

Number one is: never, never ignore them, especially when the banks etc start the collection process. You meet them head on by replying to their collection letters. Do not reply to them over the phone, this is useless, unless you are able to record your conversation with them. First thing to do is dispute the amount in writing, never admit that you owe them anything because you really don't. Because they never really gave you any valuable consideration, they never could have lost anything; you have to ask them for a proof of loss; you also ask them for a certified or notarised copy of the contract between you and the bank; ask them to return the original promissory note or loan application they got from you. Chances are they do not have it. (The Consumer Credit Act is often used here, prescribed terms etc - see other caggers posts for more info on the CCA)

Why ?

 

Because the contract does not exist; or they may have already sold your contract to others in the form of asset-backed securities or other derivatives. There is no contract. What they call a contract is the loan application they took from you. That is not a valid contract. A valid contract must be signed by two parties; the bank never signed anything with you. There is no such thing as a unilateral contract. In the case of a credit card agreement, the contract is the credit card holder agreement is nothing but an agreement between you and the bank which enables them to charge you an annual fee for using the card. But as far as loans are concerned, there is no such thing as a loan contract. Because if there is, it would not be hard to show that they have breached the contract for non-disclosure of material fact, or the fact that they have not loaned you any money.

 

It is very important for you to do these initial steps because you are establishing for yourself the evidence that you can use in a court of law should the banks or their agents (lawyers) decide to escalate the matter and take you to court. The idea is to accumulate enough evidence that the banks have failed or refused to provide you with any verifiable evidence that you owed them anything. Once they failed to produce the evidence you need, that in itself should discharge their claim - they have no claim.

 

Once you have the evidence that the principal or the creditor has no verifiable claim, their lawyers and debt collection agents would not have any verifiable evidence either and therefore these third parties or agents have no legal standing to bother you. The biblical principle that says: "no man is greater than his master" applies here. If the principal has no claim, no one else have any claim, simple as that, so do not be afraid of them.

 

PS:- Banks = Loan Companies = Credit card Companies = all the same types of Corporate Entities in the above

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[Blondmusic]

What a fantastic read. Power to the people!!

 

By the way i love the picture of your German Shepherd. I have a German Shepherd pup who is 7 months old and she is gorgeous.

[lickthewallfatboy]

What to do when the debt collectors start bugging you.

 

Number one is: never, never ignore them, especially when the banks etc start the collection process. You meet them head on by replying to their collection letters.

 

 

oh,I don't know......

 

I've demoralised and seen off at least 3 using just this method

[nuke em]

oh,I don't know......

 

I've demoralised and seen off at least 3 using just this method

 

 

... you mean by ignoring them ? or by hitting them head on?

[nuke em]

What a fantastic read. Power to the people!!

 

By the way i love the picture of your German Shepherd. I have a German Shepherd pup who is 7 months old and she is gorgeous.

 

Thanks!, i have 2 German Shepherds, had them both since pups. One is my avitar, the other is in the bottom of my posts as part of my signiture.

They both do what they are told upon command !!!

[lickthewallfatboy]

... you mean by ignoring them ? or by hitting them head on?

 

 

plain ignoring them

 

they just vanished like early morning mist......

[nuke em]

plain ignoring them

 

they just vanished like early morning mist......

 

i guess by you ignoring them, what you are doing is NOT agreeing to CONTRACT with them.... that's fine.

 

my whole post comes from the point of Contracts

[izzitme101]

 

aimed at the u.s system, but they are the same the world over really.

[nuke em]

Oh yes ... i know all about Private for Profit central banks... like ours, The Fed & the European Central bank etc

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[Lenny1245]

surely they don't just go away?

 

L x

[lickthewallfatboy]

i guess by you ignoring them, what you are doing is NOT agreeing to CONTRACT with them.... that's fine.

 

my whole post comes from the point of Contracts

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at TBH

 

they just send letters over a period of months demanding monies for which there are no valid agreements,I laugh at them before filing them away via the shredder

[PriorityOne]

surely they don't just go away?

 

L x

 

It depends on the company... and/or how sure they are that you're the person they're looking for...

[nuke em]

surely they don't just go away?

 

L x

 

If you mean the Debt collectors, yes if you handle them correctly by way of serving them the correct Notices, after all they are nothing but 3rd party interlopers and if you mean the Original "Creditor" , yes again if you serve them with the correct Notices ( all of which you create by the way, YOU put them on Notice)

 

You see for them not to go away, they need to go to court. Thats fine if they go to court on your terms, ie Contract Law & the Notices you have sent them. however if they get you in there on their BS terms you more than likely will loose.( it a game, and a rigged one at that)

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[nuke em]

I'm not sure what you're getting at TBH

 

they just send letters over a period of months demanding monies for which there are no valid agreements,I laugh at them before filing them away via the shredder

 

We are saying the same thing:-

Agreement = Contract.

No agreement = No Valid Contract.

 

Contracts also can be invalid for many reasons. Examples are non-disclosure or Not been signed by 2 physical Beings.

Corporations can't sign Contracts as they are just legal fictions - only humans, as in flesh n Blood, The spirit within etc can sign. As in "Wet" Signatures, as in both parties using a real pen!

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[zazen.warrior]

Where did you find this?

[nuke em]

Find what ? my original post or my last post , post number 14 ?

[PriorityOne]

No disrespect Nuk'em, but if you attempted to argue some of these points before a Judge... you may be laughed out the building. They either have valid documentation or then don't... but I certainly wouldn't feel happy telling a Judge that an enforceable CCA wasn't really enforceable based on what you've said here (which reads like a cheap Americanised sales pitch). Also, banks don't don't write off the account after 6 months... Some may well sell an account on quickly, but not in my experience.

 

If you successfully take on a company based on what you've said though.... then please share it.

 

Edited July 29, 2009 by PriorityOne

[Kraken1]

That is a giggle. Love the big capitals. Very middle-ages monk.

 

"Corporations can't sign Contracts as they are just legal fictions"

 

Really? I must email the college of law and tell them; they told me different...

 

"A valid contract must be signed by two parties"

 

This is a scream, this is. I shall point this out to my newsagent next time he tries to charge me for a mars bar.

 

"There is no such thing as a unilateral contract"

 

Damn. I'm not going to get a refund on those carbolic smoke balls then?

 

"there is no such thing as a loan contract. Because if there is, it would not be hard to show that they have breached the contract for non-disclosure of material fact, or the fact that they have not loaned you any money."

 

Cripes. Better get on to the bank. Does this mean I need to give my car back because I paid for it with money that didn't exist and wasn't given to me?

[nuke em]

That is a giggle. Love the big capitals. Very middle-ages monk. Just me being creative. haha! but there is a point, and the point is that all of this pre-dates all the current Statutes and Acts as it is based on Maritime Law ...the Bills of Exchange of 1862 ( if memory serves) & the Uniform Commercial Code (Maritime Law is what our courts, without Juries (Courts de facto) operate under, Not the law of the land, which is Common Law)

 

 

Really? I must email the college of law and tell them; they told me different... Please do 'cos what they should have told you that a Human signs ON BEHALF of the Corporation, as in the Agent or Authorised representative of that Corporation. You might consider changing your Law College.. just a thought!

 

 

 

This is a scream, this is. I shall point this out to my newsagent next time he tries to charge me for a mars bar. - No need to scream, You entered into a verbal Tacit agreement when you asked your newsagent for a Mars bar in exchange for your 50p coin. And Agreement = Contract

 

 

 

Damn. I'm not going to get a refund on those carbolic smoke balls then? I have no idea what you are talking about here, but Remember what Shakespeare said about the lawyers

 

 

 

Cripes. Better get on to the bank. Does this mean I need to give my car back because I paid for it with money that didn't exist and wasn't given to me ? I wouldnt do that, You agreed to take on the servicing of a debt on a monthly basis in exchange for the provision of a car to your goodself. ie There is/was an agreement which = contract.... as something of substance ( a car, which took effort to create) was provided to you in exchange for you agreeing to redeem back debt notes ( thats currency to you and me) back to the originator.

 

hope this clears your confusion

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[nuke em]

No disrespect Nuk'em, but if you attempted to argue some of these points before a Judge...The point P1, is to not get into a court in the first place,Games are played on Courts, By going to court you are consenting to their Juristiction so dont Contract with the Court unless you have the upper hand, its best to come at this from purely a commercial/contracts basis you may be laughed out the building. They either have valid documentation (upon proof of claim what is "Valid documentation? or then don't... but I certainly wouldn't feel happy telling a Judge that an enforceable CCA wasn't really enforceable based on what you've said here, Fair enough if you use Acts & Statutes, but if you use Contract Law well thats a whole differnt ball game! (which reads like a cheap Americanised sales pitch So i am a Cheap American, what of it? ....oh ok i'm not). Also, banks don't don't write off the account after 6 months.They do as far as claiming 100% of the amount Bad Debt Relief is concerned but they will never tell you that!.. Some may well sell an account on quickly, but not in my experience.

 

If you successfully take on a company based on what you've said though.... then please share it. Oh i will, worry ye not, happy to but not before i have my Estoppel in place.

 

The thing to remember is that not having an enforceable CCA just means that it cant be enforced by a court, it does not mean that the alledged liability ( as far the the OC is concerned) is wiped out, (its true the OC might not choose to go after it) or that it wont be passed on to A N Other DCA in an endless cycle of crapola and harrasment

 

 

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Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[pt2537]

That is a giggle. Love the big capitals. Very middle-ages monk.

 

 

 

Really? I must email the college of law and tell them; they told me different...

 

 

 

This is a scream, this is. I shall point this out to my newsagent next time he tries to charge me for a mars bar.

 

 

 

Damn. I'm not going to get a refund on those carbolic smoke balls then?

 

 

 

Cripes. Better get on to the bank. Does this mean I need to give my car back because I paid for it with money that didn't exist and wasn't given to me?

PMSL,

 

thats the best laugh ive had all day,

 

Cheers Kraken

[nuke em]

PMSL,

 

thats the best laugh ive had all day,

 

Cheers Kraken

 

 

Want to laugh even more PT , go back and check out my responces to Krak:) it's a gas

Edited July 29, 2009 by nuke em

[PriorityOne]

Nuke 'em

 

You believe in what your saying and that's fine....

 

From my own perspective, I've never been dragged in front of a court; various creditors and/or DCAs backed down way before then because of the arguments that were used. I've also been involved in some extremely difficult battles over the years due to the sums involved.

 

No disrespect (once again) but if you were to enter a courtroom and spout about some the things you've mentioned so far, I suspect that they'd be treated like the rantings of a raving lunatic. We're dealing with the big players here Nuke 'em (banks); they have more power than we do and plenty of ways of getting their views upheld due to their connections with Government.

 

Just because going to court isn't on your agenda, doesn't mean it's not on theres. Do you really think that anyone in power (as such) is really going to listen to you when you're talking about things that go directly against their interests ?

Edited July 29, 2009 by PriorityOne

[nuke em]

Nuke 'em

 

You believe in what your saying and that's fine.... why...., thank you

 

From my own perspective, I've never been dragged in front of a court; various creditors and/or DCAs backed down way before then because of the arguments that were used. I've also been involved in some extremely difficult battles over the years due to the sums involved. OK so Creditors have backed down because you had them over a barrel with uneforceable "agreements" that's fine P1 , i have no issues with that .good on you.. but just suppose they repealed the whole of the consumer credit act, then what, where is your argument then ? ( far fetched i know, of course they could bring in a new Act which nullifys the protection bit of the old Act:!: .. BUT... Repeal contract laws which apply the world over. Never gonna happen)

 

No disrespect (once again) but if you were to enter a courtroom and spout about some the things you've mentioned so far . There you go again about courtrooms,my point is that you only go to court if YOU are the plaintiff, you need to line you duck in a row BEFORE any court case ever occurs. I suspect that they'd be treated like the rantings of a raving lunatic. Well thats what they would want you to believe as well. Do more research here P1, many people have done so and won ( using Contract Law)! We're dealing with the big players here Nuke 'em (banks); oooh scary they have more power than we do and plenty of ways of getting their views upheld due to their connections with Government. Maybe true so why then do you do what you do in regards to this if their actions concerns you?

 

Do you really think that anyone in power (as such) is really going to listen to you when you're talking about things that go directly against their interests? No of course i dont but if some people have their own individual victories on an individual basis then that's cool , who needs the publicity !

 

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[zazen.warrior]

Where did you find this?

 

I meant where did you find your original post?