Ending a tenants Tennancy Correctly Help Needed

[Planner]

Hi, We issued the s21 notice giving the tennants 2 months notice to leave, and we also issued S8 on 26th June again asking them to leave our house, however today they have wrote a letter stating they are looking for another property and need time, and if we eneter the house or change the locks they will take action against myself and and wife. They are correct. This would be illegal eviction which is a criminal offence and carries a custodial sentance and/or a significant fine.

 

As we just went them out we were thinking of giving them 1 month from todays date ( in writing ) to leave on 17th Aug 09...

 

they have also inform us that we are putting to much pressure on them to leave and will take legal action if we don`t stop? Then you must stop immediatley.

 

We think its the best way forward is to give the extra month so they can find another property, but warn them we will apply to the court after the 17th Aug 09 to have them removed. I disagree

 

is this the correct way forward ?????????????? No

 

cheers

 

You need to begin court proceedings immediatley, otherwise a month from now you are going to find yourself in the exact same situation with still no way to get them out. Begin the court process, and at least you will have this to fall back on if your letter faiols. Keep all correspondance from now on in writing. You must not try and enter the property or attempt to change the locks.

 

Assuming you have served the s.21 and s.8 correctly (any deposit paid protected in a TDS scheme?) then it will take a number of months, as there are kids present, theres a reasonable chance that once the court order is granted , the court will give them a further 42 days before they have to move. If they dont comply with the court order, then you will have to get the baliffs to remove them, which could be a further month. Worst case scenario is therefore a further 3 to 4 months.

[jackieandwayne]

And Ripped off, it sounds like you now have a house load of right whatnots here and they clearly know their rights. Be very careful that you don't leave yourself wide open to these accusations of harassment. They only have to go to the LA homeless unit or worse, Shelter, and all of a sudden you will find yourself the villain in this.

 

And if i were you, if you intend to go ahead with this inspection make sure its not just you and your wife - you don't know these people so you cannot assume your safety. Take your copper friend with you. I'm being serious - you never know what is likely to happen when tensions run high and people feel backed into a corner. You are angry, they are angry - you won't make it any better, and as the damage is revealed during the visit, you are going to get angrier still. Think about it.

 

Do you know what? I'd forget the inspection, it could now be seen as harassment. I'd just progress your S21 into Court, today, send a registered letter to them to let them know you have done so. This has gone way beyond any damage limitation and you need to have your house back. Do you know how to progress your notice into Court? Post back if not, and I'll run you through it.

 

If you are going to let again, please come on here and ask for advice every step of the way, or at least get yourself a good book about landlords etc. so this never happens to you again.

[rippedoff15]

Hi,

 

we are not completing the inspection today, however we will start court action by N5 or N119 not sure which form, they stated that their solicitor would inform us when they intend to leave ? but they do not want me to file court action they just want more time to find another house but not sure if we beleave them now as they inform British Gas they were not living thereand left in may 09, and new accounts set up by someone who we do not know. If we file Monday and inform them of our action this may get them out. but is it better to wait 2 weeks and let the dust settle as we do not want accusations of harassment.

 

cheers

[jackieandwayne]

Ripped off - you are being too soft. Pooh about their solicitor he can tell you what he wants, it means nothing. Just as the tenants will tell you anything to get rid of you. No more chances, tomorrow get your paperwork into Court (not sure of the dates but they do shut for a summer recess quite soon).

 

You need to decide now which Notice you are going on. S8 or S21? What is the expiry date on the S8? and do you have proof of service? And please tell that you used Ground 8 on the Section 8?

 

Planner, please correct me if I am wrong - go on S21 accelerated or not and you cannot get a Money Judgement within it, or go on S8 for arrears and get a Money Judgement as part of the order.

 

You need N5 (claim form for possession of property) AND N119 (particulars of claim) to start with anyway, so you can get cracking now by pulling these documents off the HMCS website, and whilst at it get N5b as well, in case we are going to use that. There are explanatory notes available as well, you should read these, study the forms, until you know exactly what you are doing and why.

 

You should consider what, at this stage, is most important to you - the rent arrears or getting the property back and ready to relet. I mean, money judgement or not, do you really think these people will pay? On the other hand, it might stop them getting another private let and causing another landlord a headache like this. This has to be your call.

 

Also now start getting together the tenancy agreement, the proof of service for whichever NOSP you are going on, the NOSP, a rent statement, and copies of any correspondence you have had with them. If you have kept some form of diary then get that ready as it can go in your court bundle as well. Remember these people are going to see this.

 

A letter needs to be prepared and should be sent by both first class and registered. It should be factual about what is happening, and you should make no reference to anything else - their problems are not yours, and you should not be getting stressed about them. This tenant is big enough to know her rights, (I think she's been to Shelter) so she will also know where she can go to get help with housing.

 

"Dear so and so

 

PENDING COURT ACTION FOR POSSESSION

TENANTED ADDRESS

 

I write to inform you that I have today filed an application with xxxx County Court for possession of xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

You will recieve documents from the Court in due course advising you of the date and time of the hearing.

 

In the meantime, I would advise you to take legal advice from CAB, Shelter, Local Authority.

 

Yours"

 

That's all you need to say at this stage, and of course include this letter in your court bundle. It shows the judge that, even though you don't have to, you have been mindful of them (advised them to take legal advice) therefore you must be a decent landlord.

 

Anyway, I'm glad you're not going back to the house, not worth getting a broken nose really is it? Stay away now, what happens happens, and is out of your control. I promise you that you are not harassing them by taking them to Court. That is the correct procedure. But I will warn you, if you attend ahearing, the judge at the very least is going to look at you over the top of his glasses - because of the length of time it has taken you to go down the proper route, and he will want to know why. It probably won't affect his judgement, but it will make you feel a bit uncomfortable - so be prepared for it.

 

Anyway, there's how to get started, and what to do so far (oh, you also need £150 for your court fee, you can get this back in the judgement).

 

I'll keep watching and hopefully planner will just check what I said about the notices. See, even I get confused with it and I've done this for 27 years!

[Planner]

 

I'll keep watching and hopefully planner will just check what I said about the notices. See, even I get confused with it and I've done this for 27 years!

 

As you have been doing it for 27 years (I would have two years old at the time!) I will say you are correct!

[jackieandwayne]

Thank gawd and thank you! I am blonde you see and that always has to be considered!

[jackieandwayne]

Ok then ripped off, you have a choice now, and need to decide which notice to go on - and that is whether you just want possession or want the money judgement as well.

[MRSWESTHAM]

Hi Ya

 

Just bored at work flicking through other peoples problems seeing if can help at all, sure I cant on this one other than to say i cannot believe how little rights you have as a landlady! Its really really unfair that you are having to go through all this when they are sitting pretty in YOUR house for Free:(

 

I really hope you get this sorted soon.

 

Mrs W:cool:

[rippedoff15]

Hi All,

 

After another night of worry, the tennat has paid no rent again i feel lke going around to the house and banging my front door, there she is new car !! and refusing to pay rent stating she has no money. she is also refusing to let my inspect every time we ask in writing she states it is not a good time? and then states if we enter the house she will report me to the police.

 

If i call today as the rent was due last week is this classed as harassment ?? iam sitting here panicking as we have to pay the mortgage on 2 houses now and she is sitting there rent free and are we are now at boiling point

 

please help

[Planner]

 

please help

 

Theres no magic bullet on this one. You must begin legal proceedings as outlined by Kentish Lass. The longer you wait, the longer she will be living rent free.

[jackieandwayne]

Rippedoff, which Notice are you going on? no more wasting time over this, you need to get your application into court now without anymore delay.

 

If you are floundering about with how to do it, say so, and we will help you.

 

And, however much this is making your blood boil, calm down, and do not go near that property whilst you are angry like this - you'll embarass yourself, possibly end up thumping someone, or worse getting thumped yourself, and whatever you do, don't you just know it, it'll only be a matter of time before it all becomes your fault. And that is how the police will see it as well.

 

Please tell me where you have got to with your notices, and then we can help you get this resolved quickly. The more you delay, the more money you will be owed, and the more damage may be done to your property. I dread to think what is going on in there, which Is why I suggested speaking to your friendly beat officer to see if he can help you.

 

Please post back,.

[rippedoff15]

We have started the legal route but it p*** me off that she living their free and we are now paying 2 mortgages, which we can not afford to do at the present time. last nite we drove past the house and they they now pitched up a tent in the garden where 3 guys are living its madnes.

 

we feel like taking a baseball bat to the owners brand new car lol, my mate who is a copper confirmed its going to take months the legal way and could take 3 to 4 months their must be a quicker way

 

cheers

[jackieandwayne]

Yep, there is a much quicker way, illegal eviction - and its the quickest way to a hefty fine and/or prison sentence for you as well.

 

As to the time, if you have submitted your paperwork, you should get a court hearing/date I would estimate now, about early September. Then you will be given a date for possession, and if you respond to the defence and request for 6 weeks hardship that will undoubtedly be made, then you must make sure you tell the judge what is going on. I don't think the judge will grant it to them given the circumstances - he may say well, youv'e had penty of time in the property, so I will allow two weeks only.

 

Check the property safely (take a copper with you) on the date of possession and if they are still there, then straight into Court for a warrant. That will probably take 2 weeks.

 

Can't you get this copper friend to check out who these people in the tent are? Are you sure its not just her children camping out in the garden like kids do? Anyway, should you be correct, I bet the neighbours don't like it either so have you had a word with the neighbours? Encourage them to report to the LA and police about the gypsy encampment that has started in the garden! It will be investigated.

 

Just try and stay calm, I know its very difficult but nothing will be gained by you losing your rag with them.

[rippedoff15]

100% not kids in the garden they were drinking beer smoking and all about 30 years old.

[jackieandwayne]

Oh good god ripped off! Smoking what one has to ask! Quick word in your copper friends ear.

 

Look, I don't want to worry you any more than necessary, but your mate will confirm this - if there is drug dealing/use going on landlords risk having a crack house closure (Closing Order - that's the nickname) placed on their property. A very very good reason to get the police on side officially.

 

I know this is dreadful for you, I can have a short fuse sometimes myself, and this would probably turn me into a hit woman. But, now that you have started the ball rolling with the Court, there will be an end to this, and you tearing your hair out over it will only harm you and won't change the pace at which the law goes.

 

Just keep posting, tell me what tricks you think they are up to, I'll try and tell you how to deal with those - but most of all stay safe - and that includes your rep as a landlord as well.

 

It will all come out in the wash and you will get back on your feet again

[fro]

I feel your pain and anger - I watched a film like this years ago and I actually think people who watched that film are shown how to live rent free.

 

I felt so much anger watching it because the guy who owns the property actually have serious financial problems and the so called law of the land is unreasonably on the tenants side.

 

A friend of mine is going through the same situation with a tenant, which leads me to think people are out there looking to exploit.

 

I don't know anything about the things but I often hear adverts on the radio - about tenants not paying - call dawkins bailiffs

 

I hope you sort it out soon,

[jackieandwayne]

Yes but Fro, before the tenant was protected fully by the law, we had characters like Rachman, who would actually assault and terrify a tenant who wouldn't move out etc, including pregnant women, disabled people, all class of vulnerable person. These people were all protected tenants, which meant their rent was controlled. Rachman couldn;t have this as he wanted to turn his properties in West London into bedsit land for immigrants and they had no protection re the rent. He forced decent people out by any means he could, and filled the properties with people who had then to pay whatever he demanded, and god help them if they didn;t pay. He epitomoses the bad landlord. And don;t forget that other chap, Nicholas van something or other, more recently, I believe he was a nightmare to tenants as well, and this despite having laws in place to protect them.

 

That's a very extreme example, but if you read some of the threads in this particular forum, you can easily see both sides of the picture - tenants are still treated badly, in many cases illegally, and I will always help those in that situation where I can. On the other hand, because tenants now have all these rights thelandlord has to make sure he respects those rights, and I know that many tenants have no intention of paying etc etc, take the pee, wreck houses.

 

Its very difficult all round, I agree, and not a field I would want to venture into. I'll stick with the social housing for now thank you - at least I can control the tenants with the many tools the government has given us over the years!

 

But poor rippedoff is having a rotten time, I think this is his first let, and he has got the worst tenant he could have wished for - one who is a slob, has no intention other than freeloading and to boot is wrecking his investment (home) - and no - he cannot go round there kicking up a stink, because if he does he'll be accused of harassment or illegal eviction, and in his case i reckon he risks getting into fisticuffs as well. I hope this won't put him off letting again, and that next time he does he'll be a little more prepared for what can go wrong - he can't say he hasn't had the experience of a bad tenant really can he? It'll make him wiser next time about who he chooses as a tenant. And that in itself can be a difficult task!

 

But I also have to say there are many very good private landlords out there as well, and good tenants too.

 

Swings and roundabouts, but then aren't all businesses?

[rippedoff15]

Good News the tenant has called me today stating she has found another rented house ( feel sorry for her new landlord ) and as soon as the other house is ready she will move.

 

But once she has moved we are going to take photos of the damage which confirms doors are broke, carpets removed, part decorated we have been told that we can report her to the police and take action to reclaim the cost to put the house right and not forgetting s the £2,000.oo in rent arrears

 

fingers crossed

[jackieandwayne]

I'm pleased to hear this, but then how many times have you been told this before? Carry on with your court action just to cover your back and make her realise you mean it now. And anyway, if you don't do this, think she has moved out, enter the property, she can still come back and say you have entered her home illegally. She's a crafty mare who knows her rights, so hey, as well as screw you for the rent, wreck your home, why not have you for illegal eviction as well? You need that possession order so that you can't be bitten on the backside after the event.

 

If she really intends to move out she needs to give you notice in writing. Until you get that the periodic tenancy still runs and she is liable for the rent.

 

I see no reason why you cannot report her to the police for criminal damage - but actually, is the deposit in a scheme? (Please tell me you protected it?!) Because that is the place to get that sorted out. (Take some advice from your friend about what the police can do re criminal damage, but its worth having a go, if only to prevent her doing this to some other poor landlord.)

 

Which Notice did you go on in the end? S21 or S8?

 

Chin up, you are getting there, and it will all come right in the end.

[rippedoff15]

At last the tennant has left today, we drove past the huse and the white van man was loading goods. we waited until the hosue was empty called the police who came to the house they went in first as the house was left open, we informed the council that we have now taken the house back as the tennants and done a runner. both police and council told us to change the locks so we have.

 

on the downside the house is damaged all carpets have panit & oil on them doors moissing kitchen units damaged and lots of rubbish, they have even left a skip on the drive full to the top and not paid to have it removed.

 

So far £2k is arrears and the cost to put the house back, the tennant refused to give a fowarding address but we now know where hahaha so we can chase the outstanding money.

 

cheers

[Planner]

At last the tennant has left today, we drove past the huse and the white van man was loading goods. we waited until the hosue was empty called the police who came to the house they went in first as the house was left open, we informed the council that we have now taken the house back as the tennants and done a runner. both police and council told us to change the locks so we have.

 

on the downside the house is damaged all carpets have panit & oil on them doors moissing kitchen units damaged and lots of rubbish, they have even left a skip on the drive full to the top and not paid to have it removed.

 

So far £2k is arrears and the cost to put the house back, the tennant refused to give a fowarding address but we now know where hahaha so we can chase the outstanding money.

 

cheers

 

Good news.

 

Ive heard horror stories before where locks have been changed after the LL believed a troublesome tenants has moved out, only to find themselves in hot water when the tenants try to get back in a couple of days later to find they have been illegally evicted. Theres lots of stories about it on the landlord zone forums is you care to have a peak.

 

Lets hope that isnt the situation here. If you rent your property out again, do it by the book.

[Kentish Lass]

It is painfully obvious from reading this thread that rippedoff15 does not have a clue regarding the legal requirements and procedures involved in letting a property. Lots of help has been given here, but most of the time it seemed the good advice was simply ignored. I think you have been extremely lucky here in that the tenants did move out. You laid yourself open to a very serious charge and large fine for illegal eviction by changing the locks without having an order of the court awarding you possession.

 

Read up on what you are supposed to do. Use jackieandwayne's list of questions or have your tenants properly referenced and checked before giving a tenancy. Make sure you protect the deposit and notify the tenants of the details within 14 days. Read up about the notices required to let your tenants know that you are seeking possession - and remember what Planner said - a notice is only a notice. If your tenants do not leave at the end of the AST, or at the end of the 2 month's notice during a periodic tenancy, you HAVE TO GET A COURT ORDER to recover your property.

 

And breath a sigh of relief now.....

[jackieandwayne]

Really pleased to hear this, and I bet you know now what you should do in future! Fingers crossed for you for the next one.