RBS admit no CCA - what do I do?

[Duffychick]

Hi all,

 

I think this is a bit of a moral question really.

RBS have admitted they have no CCA and that they wouldn't be unable to enforce any non payment of debt (just under £2k) in court.

My OH, whose card it is, says great one less bill but I'm not so sure. I am bit more moral than him;) so wondered if it would be best to do a full and final offer?

If it is, is there a good way to work out what we should offer - obviously taking into account the lack of funds or should we just keep paying on an installment plan. I don't really want to do this as it just carries it on and on.

 

All opinions welcome!

[PGH7447]

only you can decide what is right, you could offer a full and final or carry on as you are or Stop

[MrMT]

I'm not sure if you're aware but if this debt has been sold on, chances are the bank have got their money from the tax man so you'll be giving them a further profit if you were to pay.

 

Secondly, debts are bought for a fraction of the amount so again, paying a DCA means they make a nice healthy profit.

 

So who's morally guilty now?

 

If you have to make an offer, start at the 5-8% they bought it for.

 

(Please don't take my opinion as legal advice)

[Duffychick]

Thanks PGH and MrMT

 

The debt hasn't been sold on and I have to say that RBS have been great with us every step of the way. They are one of the ones I would be inclined to pay - unlike Sharklycard and MBNA!

 

Will have a good think but it would be great to clear one off of the list and off of the credit file records.

[BankFodder]

Thanks PGH and MrMT

 

The debt hasn't been sold on and I have to say that RBS have been great with us every step of the way. They are one of the ones I would be inclined to pay - unlike Sharklycard and MBNA!

 

Will have a good think but it would be great to clear one off of the list and off of the credit file records.

Don't expect that it will come off your credit file record.

If you want to be moral about this - then good for you. People should take a lesson.

However, I think that it is reasonable to expect an reciprocal attitude from them.

I suggest that you talk to them about a FF settlement but that part of the deal will be that they must remove all trace of any CRA entries relating to the matter. You would want this in writing as a matter of contract with a stipulated binding time for the CRA entries to be removed. And that you will want a letter confirming that the matter has been cleared completely and that there is nothing outstanding.

If necessary you should discuss putting the money in escrow with their solicitors against their undertaking.

Do nothing on trust.

[Duffychick]

Thank you Bank Fodder.

 

I think I will write to them as you say but is it best to make an offer (say 5% as per MrMT's post above) or ask them to give me a figure that I can then "haggle" with.

Is there a letter here with all the info you've mentioned?

 

DC

[BankFodder]

It is up to you as to what satisfies your sense of morality.

However, I would have thought that if there was a prospect of a CRA cleanup too, you should be thinking of quite a bit more

[Duffychick]

I hadn't thought of it like that, will have a think and get letter done. If I have success I will let you know.

 

thanks for the replies:)

[Worried6]

Hi Duffychick

 

I hope you don't mind if I ask a question about dealing with RBS - I have recently asked them for a copy CCA and have received an application form in response. I haven't taken it any further yet. Your thread caught my eye and I wondered what led up to them admitting to you they had no CCA.

Did you go through a process of sending a CCA request etc?

Any advice welcomed.

 

Thanks

W6

[hammyhound]

OH got a similar letter saying they had "misfiled" his agreement. He had already stopped paying them. A word of warning though they did default him so it is entirely up to you.

 

HH

[Duffychick]

Hi W6 and hammyhound,

 

Sounds like we got the same "misfiled" letter, we were doing a DMP and then OH's work dried up. He's self employed and I can't work as am full time carer for our disabled son.

After finding this site (than god!) I decided to CCA all 10 of our debtors. That's when we got the response from RBS. Mint (same people really) sent a copy of the application form as a CCA which it isn't.

We've already stopped paying too and to be honest I'm not that bothered about credit file being bad for 6 years - I know that sounds flippant but lessons learned and all that.

I was just going thru the paperwork to work out how much to offer as FF and noticed that when we applied for the PPI to be refunded as mis-sold they said they had checked the CCA!!!!! Not feeling so moral about paying them back now:D

[volvo]

Hi

 

To be fair to RBS, I sent a total of 13 CCA requests to various creditors and RBS acknowledged within 2 weeks and said that as they did not have the agreement they were considering the balance as zero. With no damage by them to my credit file.

 

They were even very good when i was on reduced repayments with them for a number of years and they never ever sold it on.

 

Oh, how i wish the other 12 had acted in the same manner, Cabot, Lowell, Bryan Carter etc.,

 

VOLVO

[Duffychick]

Hi Volvo,

 

RBS have been the same with us, always good on reduced payments, never sold debt on and never hassled us. It's one of the reasons why I would consider offering them a F+F amount. Thought I'd go through everything we've paid and ofset that against what we've actually spent and see if we can agree a decent figure. I know for sure that the others wont be getting the same sort of offer!

Mind you I'm actually missing Barclaycard's phone calls - don't think they love me anymore;)

[Pinky69]

I offered them nothing and they wrote it off anyway, which is probably why they are now broke:lol:

[Worried6]

Hi Again

 

You always get your eyes opened with these companies.

I have a couple of RBS credit cards (RBS, Mint, Tesco) and they have all responded to my CCA request with a copy of an application form. I am not going to rush into anything with them yet.

I am definately going to request refund of PPI and charges over the last 6 years.

Good Luch & thanks

W6

[Duffychick]

Hi W6,

 

Just remember that if you go down the route of saying that the agreements unenforceable due to no CCA I don't think that you can then ask them for money back for mis-sold PPI and excessive charges.

I know it sticks in the throat but I think you have to choose one or the other:oops:

[hammyhound]

Lucky for us we don't have PPI on anything so it doesn't matter to us but for some people the PPI element might just right off their balance.

 

HH

[master woody]

In basic terms it puts you in the driving seat.

 

Time to play hard ball,

 

Firstly stop paying, this get thier attention

 

don't talk to them over the phone

 

Then say Give me a 80% discount and remove the defualt or I'm not paying a thing ever again (see letter template and amend)

 

If a was the dca I'd bit your hand off, they know if you stop paying theirs nothing they can you.

 

I Prefer geting a full and final, just gives you the peace of mind that the case is closed. Other will disagree and say you owe them nothing, the choice is yours ....

[Duffychick]

Hi master woody,

 

I think I would prefer a F+F too but won't pay until get an agreement with the figure and the credit file cleared. Also need to save up the pennies to pay it!

 

1 down 9 to go

[lilly white]

Please please do not let this opportunity go you do not know what is around the corner

 

Go for a full final now offer 20%

 

or go for reduce amount over a time period.

 

However get it nail you might regretted in the future

 

All in writing Morals are Morals but that is all

 

All imho

 

Best regards lillwhite

[Duffychick]

thanks lilly white,

 

we've kind of made the decision to do a F+F to get rid of it as long as they put it in writing that nothing will be sent to CRA. i'm pretty sure that as there's no CCA they can't do that anyway as it's on the CCA that you agree to it.

think that makes sense:)

 

will update with their response

[peter1234]

hi

out of interest when did you take the card out

[Duffychick]

Hi andbrat,

 

The card is very old hasn't been used for a long time - probably 2002ish

[Duffychick]

Well, we sent the F+F settlement offer (admittedly a small amount but all we can afford) and now have a response.

The letter has come from good old D L Munn, Recoveries Manager, Collections and says:

"I write to advise you that the Bank is not prepared to accept your offer of £xx.xx in full and final settlement. The full outstanding balance is required to settle the account.

If you are unable to pay the full amount, please continue to make reduced payments of £xx.xx per month for the next three months when a full review will be required.

I trust this clarifies the matter."

 

Now is it me or are they not reading their previous correspondence that clearly states they can't find the CCA and are aware it can't be enforced in court?

 

Obviously we wont be paying anything but do I need to respond to this letter at all? I'm thinking not but any other ideas or opinions would be most welcome.

 

Thanks

 

DC

[spartathisis]

Iv had correspondence from said d munn, or is that d muppet? You see what you get for trying to fair and reasonable to these dimwits.

 

I would be tempted to ask said munn how they expect to enforce the debt when they have admitted they dont have a CCA?

 

You may find the admission of a lack of CCA came from another department and has not been put on the system.