Is this the help the government is offering people in financial difficulty? What a joke

[alfwithhair]

Have any of you read this

 

While Gordon Brown mouths platitudes about helping people, he is plotting a stealth tax on those in debt

 

BBC NEWS | UK | Court fees plan 'tax on debtors'

 

That will help peoples difficulties immensly.

Well done as usual, you've been a great help

Edited January 24, 2009 by alfwithhair

[angry cat]

Disgusting, saw that on ceefax!

 

AC

[beachcomber60]

Absolute disgrace ! !

 

Been put in this position through no fault of ours (directors closed business without paying a penny to the employees rather then use an agreed overdraft)

 

Just who is here to help those in financial hardship?

 

Quicker Brown gets voted out the better

 

Sorry, going on a bit here - cornflakes time then a lettter to my MP (Tory)

[mr.ton]

This is Gordon Browns last slap in the face to those of us in debt.

He is effectivley punishing those who he sees are to blame for the problems his government are in.

Thankfully..like with everything from this wretched government - its nothing but a gimmick that will never see the light of day.

It will just be yet more money to payback at £1 per month once all outgoings have been taken into account

It will never see the light of day anyway & is just a vindictive act from a government in its last full year in power.

[Viscount Stair]

I suppose it's how the bank bail out is getting funded. I heard this on the radio and the words "stealth tax" were being used there too.

[Misterzeus]

Isn't that what Labour's good at - making the most vulnerable suffer!

 

Disgusting tactics - even for the Labour Party!

 

Mrs Z

[sosumi]

I saw this about 5am. A very dark start to the day. I went back to bed.

Had a sleep. Woke up and decided.

The Labour Party has now lost my vote.

[womble72]

There is a small artical in the sun newspaper called Debt Free Hike !

 

It is classed as a recession tax ! Stealth Tax.

 

What a bloody joke the Labour party is and they lump a 233% on a court order !

 

Let me just see how a person in serious debt can afford to pay that ?

 

umm- no they cant !

This will increase people going banckrupt at this rate and blimey this will end up being the only option at this rate.

 

It also claims the ministry of justice has said there would be help for the hard up ?

Hard up thats why we are going to court in the first place !

 

The government are out of touch and this country will be bankrupt in the end at this rate.

 

Thats my rant over for today !

[mr.ton]

The Labour Party has now lost my vote.

 

They have lost everyone's vote now i suspect.

[sosumi]

Banks lie cheat and gamble away billions -

Government regulation?

Tax the poor.

Nice one:mad:

[deepdebt]

I saw this about 5am. A very dark start to the day. I went back to bed.

Had a sleep. Woke up and decided.

The Labour Party has now lost my vote.

 

I agree with sosumi, lost my vote to, the final insult.

[deepdebt]

Banks lie cheat and gamble away billions -

Government regulation?

Tax the poor.

Nice one:mad:

 

We are the easy targets!

 

The big guys can defend any actions so lets pick of the little guys again!

[Werner M]

.......absolutely Disgusting !!!!!!!no More Votes From Me!!!!.....wm.

[mr.ton]

The thing is...the "poor people" are now fighting back & government is in a state of panic over this

[Bookworm]

I'm sorry, but can we lose the big hysteria "oooh, stealth tax" here for one moment and actually look at what the article actually means?

 

According to the Independent, the cost of a debtor being summoned to discuss their finances would go up from £30 to £100 under the new pricing scheme.

In other words, the cost to the CLAIMANT to file at court would go up. The debtor will only face those costs if he LOSES. The BBC is presenting a slant which is disgraceful.

 

The court fee charged when a debtor is ordered to attend goes up from £45 to £50.

Again. Doom and gloom bias. A debtor is not "ordered" to attend, we all know that in fact, you can in fact lose by default. And you will only get charged the fee if you lose.

 

Meanwhile, this:

The MoJ has expanded free legal representation in county courts for households at risk of repossession,

is just mentioned at the end of the article where by then you are so whipped up into a frenzy of indignation that you won't notice the very real important fact: If in danger of repossession, you could now get free legal representation in a county court, giving you that chance to walk out without having lost your home.

 

Think on that. ;-)

[Surfer01]

It is getting to stage now where you do not know who to believe as papers tend to sensationalise issues but do not look at the true facts. The BBC now twists headlines to suit their ratings and misleads people etc. This is like the news in many third world countries like Zimbabwe. When will it all end?

[Werner M]

....maybe and only maybe ,with a Government that has never been in power .....(even the thought of it frightens me) ......WM.

[Viscount Stair]

Bookworm: the reality is that a lot of judgments are entered entirely by default against the most vulnerable - just because those of us here are fighting back does not mean that everyone does. The court fees paid by claimants will in a very large number of cases will be added straight onto the debts owed by many.

 

There was a more reasoned and in-depth discussion of this on Law in Action before Christmas (sadly, I have deleted the podcast) and even the judges' spokesman who was interviewed was concerned about the consequences if this very proposal (then out to consultation) went ahead.

 

As for the free representation, I will - quite frankly - believe it when (or if) it actually happens and proves effective in any way. Until then, I will file it with the Homeowners Mortgage Support Scheme and other initiatives that have been announced with great fanfare and had little or no effect in practice.

 

There was a recent short debate about the repossession problem in Westminster Hall recently in which Vince Cable (who, though I am not a Lib Dem, strikes me as one person who grasps the issues very clearly) asked a series of very pertinent questions about shortcomings in the various initiatives that have been announced and got answers from the Minister that were long on rhetoric and short on substance.

 

This is not a party political point I am making: I am a card carrying member of the Plague On All Their Houses Party. I fully recognise that it is considerably easier for Vince Cable to ask the right questions than it would have been for him to provide answers if the roles had been reversed.

 

However, it strikes me as entirely fair to contrast the unimaginable sums of money being pumped in to the banking system with the cheese paring attitude being taken to funding of the court system.

 

It also strikes me as fair to contrast the limitless guarantees given to those who might otherwise have lost money in Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley and Icesave with the complete indifference that was shown to those who did lose money they could ill-afford in Farepak.

 

Maybe the best thing to come out of this recession is that it is affecting the articulate, pushy middle classes (among which I have realistically to count myself) and we now realise what people without that advantage in life have gone through before. The acid test will be if those of us in the first cateogry remember to do something about those in the second while we are at it.

[Bookworm]

Oh, I don't disagree with you, Viscount (or may I just call you Stair? ), but what gets my goat is the way the media twist things any way that suits them to dramatise things.

 

Incidentally, the court fees structure was altered and the fees increased in November 07, with in particular the addition of the hearing fee, and I don't remember seeing such an uproar in the media then. Then again, it wouldn't have made such alarmist news then when the debt levels hadn't reached critical point yet.

[PGH7447]

and another article in the papers toay just to wind people up is the one about a bank taking its high perfomers away on an all expenses paid trip to a sunny shore, and then changing its mind due to bad press being percieved but still giving its employees £2000 in holiday vouchers.

 

well why not they only lost a few BILLION:mad: and send the economy into freefall

[Viscount Stair]

Fair points, Bookworm (and VS does for most others )

 

I think you happened to tread on a landmine that was there for the triggering, so no offence meant.

 

I think you do have a point about the media agenda: the BBC seemed almost smugly triumphant in proclaiming that the recession was now "official" and their Business Editor is a little too reliant on the "I have learned" gambit.

 

You are right in saying that restructuring court fees is nothing new and complaints about court fees aren't new either: the barons at Runnymede were as worried about the selling of justice as its delay or denial.

 

I do stand by what I said about the difference being that things are now biting on the middle classes and that it is incumbent on us to do something about it not just for ourselves.

 

The government listened about the extension of bailliffs' powers and it should have done on this too.

[Fuzzgin]

I'm scared that if people listen to all this the Tories will get it. I'm not a fan of New Labour but I'm terrified of the Tories getting in. The party of business despite headline grabbing words is no friend to the debtor.

[palomino]

Again. Doom and gloom bias. A debtor is not "ordered" to attend, we all know that in fact, you can in fact lose by default. And you will only get charged the fee if you lose.

 

Sorry mate, you're wrong. A debtor can be ordered to court to complete one of these http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex140_0403.pdf.

[womble72]

Quick question regarding http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...ex140_0403.pdf.

 

At what stage of court procedings would you need to fill the form in.

[palomino]

The creditor obtained a court order for me to appear to complete the form under oath. Completing the form was the proceedings.

 

In my case it was quite apparent I had nothing to offer and nothing further happened.