Question re- Northampton bulk clearing centre and CPR rules

[blind-as-a-bat]

actually Last of the Mohicans, i may be wrong, but i think the creditor in the Wilson case appealed on your theory, that by denying them the right to there goods due to a wrongly filled out agreemant was a breach of there humen right's, or at least one of the lords brought the subject up

 

The lords disagreed hence the quote

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] and in particular Sir Andrew Morritt’s, comment in paragraph 26

 

26. ……….” In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;”

 

so the theory may work the other way round if the debtor was to plead it in abbsence of the correct documents, as that would imply it was a breach of the debtors human rights

[Last of the Mohicans]

actually Last of the Mohicans, i may be wrong, but i think the creditor in the Wilson case appealed on your theory, that by denying them the right to there goods due to a wrongly filled out agreemant was a breach of there humen right's, or at least one of the lords brought the subject up

 

The lords disagreed hence the quote

 

 

so the theory may work the other way round if the debtor was to plead it in abbsence of the correct documents, as that would imply it was a breach of the debtors human rights

 

 

Well, sauce for the goose and all that

 

I think the Government might possibly be able to say that a CCJ does not affect your property - but a charging order, designed specifically to deprive you of your home, or at the very least, equity that you may have in it, if based on and stemming directly from a CCJ which itself is based on no evidence being put before the Court cannot in any way shape of form be allowed under the Convention.

Its a clear case of deprivation, or reducing your right to enjoyment, and freedom to sell your property without penalty.

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Subbing to this one........thats what Marlin/Phoenix have done with us.....threatened a charging order and issued claim via Northhampton bulk centre, but when I asked for doccuments they say they have "asked for them from the original creditor"...so that means they have issued proceedings without having any doccumentation to hand, to make sure the claim will stand up in court etc.....Just getting AQ ready to hand in to court on thursday...am very interested in this issue as when we see Judge I could use this......specially as they want to go for charging order...

[Last of the Mohicans]

Subbing to this one........thats what Marlin/Phoenix have done with us.....threatened a charging order and issued claim via Northhampton bulk centre, but when I asked for doccuments they say they have "asked for them from the original creditor"...so that means they have issued proceedings without having any doccumentation to hand, to make sure the claim will stand up in court etc.....Just getting AQ ready to hand in to court on thursday...am very interested in this issue as when we see Judge I could use this......specially as they want to go for charging order...

 

I think it's a sound argument with which to attack the Government for allowing the abuse, and *after you have defeated the CCJ* for beginning a prosecution against the DCA.

 

Thats my thoughts, and I'm being very serious about them. I would be delighted to see the monkeys at Cabot et al answering charges brought against them under the ECoHR - but I think they saw it coming myself. I mean, that must be why the put "(Europe)" in their name...

 

 

Edit: found this on the Liberty site: Your Rights

If you consider your human rights under the Convention have been breached and you have not been able to gain satisfaction in the English courts then you can still petition the European Court of Human Rights. This has to be done within six months of the final decision complained of. The procedure is mainly in writing, and only a very limited form of Legal Aid may be available to assist you. Should the Court eventually find the UK Government in breach of your rights under the Convention it can order the Government to pay you compensation and your legal costs and the Government has a duty to change English law to bring it into line with the Convention.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Last of the Mohicans

[plucked chick]

Hi, Am going to post the reply (hopefully!!!? if I can work photobucket) that I received from The Ministry of Justice after asking my MP what rules the courts are using to give charging orders on unsecured debt. From what I deduce from the letter is that there is nothing decided yet? or am I being hopeful? I will try and look back to a really useful video that someone on the list did unless anyone has a good link to it as it attached so small you cannot read it.

[Last of the Mohicans]

Hi, Am going to post the reply (hopefully!!!? if I can work photobucket) that I received from The Ministry of Justice after asking my MP what rules the courts are using to give charging orders on unsecured debt. From what I deduce from the letter is that there is nothing decided yet? or am I being hopeful? I will try and look back to a really useful video that someone on the list did unless anyone has a good link to it as it attached so small you cannot read it.

 

Would love to see that PC - if you need any help posting via Photobucket PM me.

[plucked chick]

By jove I think I might have done it?

[Last of the Mohicans]

By jove I think I might have done it?

 

 

typical parlimentary hogwash unfortunately.

 

If you have a mind, you should write back saying

 

Dear Useless MP,

 

You have neither addressed my points properly, nor had them answered in any way by the Government. I demand that you write again to the Baroness Scotland and have her answer precisely and without prevarication the points that I raised with you.

In case you have forgotten, the points are:

 

(points)

 

I would be grateful if you would forestall my approaching the local media with this matter by having a full and frank response covering all points succinctly and fully delivered to me within 21 days at the latest, or before any decision as noted in your reply is taken, whichever is the sooner.

Should you fail to do so, I will feel obliged to contact such media as I see fit and advertise your ineffectuality over this important issue.

 

Yours disgustedly,

[plucked chick]

The MP first wrote to the Attorney General who "passed the buck" to the Ministry of Justice as they did now know??????????????in the letter to the MP it quotes "I apologise for the delay in informing you of the whereabouts of your letter. I have been having difficulties finding out who is responsible for the issues you raised as I have also been in contact with H.M. Treasure and the Departmenht for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR)." also "The matter raised in your letter fall within the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice...............blah blah" In other words nobody knows only that no decision has been made. No wonder the judges don't know either. When I went to Court for the Egg Loan the Judge actually asked me if I knew if the new Charging Order combining with CCJs was coming in????? The Solicitor for the other side didn't know either. So why are they getting away with doing it? its maddening. Thanks for the quotes for the honourable member of parliament which I will be using.

[Last of the Mohicans]

The MP first wrote to the Attorney General who "passed the buck" to the Ministry of Justice as they did now know??????????????in the letter to the MP it quotes "I apologise for the delay in informing you of the whereabouts of your letter. I have been having difficulties finding out who is responsible for the issues you raised as I have also been in contact with H.M. Treasure and the Departmenht for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR)." also "The matter raised in your letter fall within the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice...............blah blah" In other words nobody knows only that no decision has been made. No wonder the judges don't know either. When I went to Court for the Egg Loan the Judge actually asked me if I knew if the new Charging Order combining with CCJs was coming in????? The Solicitor for the other side didn't know either. So why are they getting away with doing it? its maddening. Thanks for the quotes for the honourable member of parliament which I will be using.

 

Why are they getting away with it? BECAUSE WE LET THEM!

 

However, you've been to the head of the fountain now - and in fairness your MP does sound as if he's done the leg work - but the charge of being innefectual stands.

I'd modify the first parra to thank him for his efforts "so far", but then continue with the demand that he gets his finger out and demands the answers that both YOU and HE are entitled to.

He's copping out and buying favours by allowing himself to be patted on the tush and told to run along - thats not what he's there for, even if he thinks it is.

[plucked chick]

Agreed, how does one fight against this certainly the law is an "ass" with an r in there somewhere is a very true saying. I have been given a court date between June 20th and July 20th for my fight against Drydens (Egg) who after my AQ have said they are following CPR rules by negotiating WITHOUT PREJUDICE of course offering me to pay off now (an amount which they know I cannot possibly get my hands on) and the other "negotiation" is almost the same amount that I owe but at a monthly amount that they know I cannot afford (they have had my expenditure form four times now) PLUS a voluntary charging order on my property. It does show what the courts are up against doesn't it? as they can now say "we have followed CPR rules now" as they hadn't before. Needless to say what my reply will be?????????????

[popeye1]

In the defence , do we the ask the DCA for proof and date of receiving the docs from the OC

[jason_mnm]

any updates since March 2009?????????????????????

[DizzieDiva2010]

Thats exactly right...one of the reasons they use Northampton is precisely so they don't have to file and serve documents in support of their claim, they hope and expect the claim wont be defended, and they simply apply for default judgement.

 

However the fact that they did not have the relevant documents to hand at the time of making the claim is a blatent abuse of the court process, and means they had "no cause for action" under the CPR

 

I have had a CCS from Northampton Bulk Centre POC state my agreement number, amount owed but no documents.

I sent CPR 31.14 to Restons Solicitors and the reply is as attached:

[straftat]

this issue of unclear Poc should form the first part of any defense

 

In my case last month the judge argued with the DCAs solicitor fir a good 10 mins about unclear POC

 

the dca solicitor claimed that they didnt need to be specific because it was filed online and quoted that section above

 

judge said bollox , how can I defend when it doesn't state the claim properly and any documents needed can be mentioned and indexed later or something like that

 

He through out their application to stike out my embarrased defense and awarded me 100 quid for them wasting my time

[pt2537]

well, the bulk centre website actually says that, if you cannot properly particularise your claim in 1024 characters then you should not use the bulk centre but should use the normal local court to issue the claim

[citizenB]

I have had a CCS from Northampton Bulk Centre POC state my agreement number, amount owed but no documents.

 

I sent CPR 31.14 to Restons Solicitors and the reply is as attached:

 

Dizzie, your thumbnail is very tiny. Do you have your own thread, if so please pop a link here. Also have a read of the two following threads

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/255329-cpr-18-cpr-31-a.html

 

HTH

[DizzieDiva2010]

Dizzie, your thumbnail is very tiny. Do you have your own thread, if so please pop a link here. Also have a read of the two following threads

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/255329-cpr-18-cpr-31-a.html

 

HTH

 

Hi yes i have my own thread please look at Dizziediva2010