Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[Mad Nick]

Mad Nick If I understand you I think your wrong as to go into unauthorised debit attracts a much higher rate of interest usually described as the 'purchase rate'

 

As you say you should have any charges which have been added to your account together with any subsequent interest refunded

 

If you HAVE paid the penalty charges, and the interest, then you can claim not only the charges but also the interest. Both the charges & the interest should be added together then contractual compound interest, as per their unauthorised rate, added for them 'borrowing' your money unlawfully........bit of a double whammy

Mmmmmm. Agree that unauthorised > authorised - I've made that point myself re Bank Accounts. Milly's is a credit card account, so I had sort of put that issue on one side, but, of course, it would also depend what her credit limit was.

 

But I still don't see "contractual interest" as something on top of charges + interest on charges. I see at as any interest which they applied iaw with the contract. So that covers the interest on the charges and the interest on the "remaining" balance. My point (and we might well be in violent agreement but just using different terminology) is that the interest on the "remaining" balance would be valid unless, without the charges, the balance would have been in "better" zones (eg credit not authorised overdraft, authorised not unauthorised) and therefore had a lower interest rate applied to it - and so there is some more interest you can claim. Regards, Mad Nick

[millymollymoo]

I can totally see your point about interest since closing the account in Feb 06, but can you be a bit more specific about the relative size of your charges and average balance (how dare I ask a lady such a question) ? Which of these two extremes was your account like :

1. Charges totalling £100 on a balance always >£1,000 debit (like mine)
   
2. Charges totalling £100 on a balance which was sometimes

Under 1, you can claim charges + contractual interest on the charges, but the charges have made no difference to the fact that you would have been charged interest on the remaining balance. Goldfish would be right, for the wrong reasons.

 

Under 2, you can claim charges + contractual interest on the charges, but the charges have led to you paying interest which, but for the charges, you wouldn't have paid. Goldfish would be wrong, and you should write back along those lines, perhaps also asking them to convince you by calculating for you what your balance would have been on Feb 06 had the charges not been levied. Regards, Mad Nick

 

Ello Mad Nick:D

 

Im a lady oh thankyou beats being called 'her'

 

I believe I am number one and possibly two sometimes,as I paid the balances of twice.

 

 

I am claiming contractual in this instance ,the reason is that my payments were used to pay the charges and not the balance, therefore the interest was charged again on the balance instead of it being less if no charge had been there. When I paid them up in Feb2006 they had the lot.

I hope this makes sense!!!!!!!!!

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Mad Nick, My credit limit was £5K. I never went over it though. I was a habitual late payment fee person, because I never checked my statements, just used to pay them every month through internet banking and was a day or two late. I must add though they charged late fees for no reason sometimes, have the proof on some of my statements. I paid them a week early sometimes and they still charged a late fee:confused:

[Mad Nick]

I am claiming contractual in this instance ,the reason is that my payments were used to pay the charges and not the balance, therefore the interest was charged again on the balance instead of it being less if no charge had been there.

You were indeed charged more in £, but it's (presumably) the same % interest as you are already claiming back on the charges. So they're the same thing.

 

Then there's the issue of, without the charges, would your balance have attracted a lower % ? From what you say, yes, but likely to be a small figure and in practice a nightmare to work out accurately (ie avoid challenge). I have the same issue on my not inconsiderable current account overdraft but I have decided to just concentrate on the interest on the charges not the delta interest on the balance had the charges not been levied. HTH. Regards, Mad Nick

[JonCris]

mad nick I don't think there is any disagreement between us but to try & clarify assuming the unlawful charges plus interest HAVE been paid then they should be added together THEN compound contractual interest applied.

 

eg Penalty charges £100, assuming 1 year unauthorised borrowing interest say 25%pa total £125 then add another 25%pa total £156.25

 

If the charges nor interest have NOT been paid then the claim should only consist of the charges & actual interest debited to the account. You may have a claim in 2 parts 1 part where the charges & interest have been paid & another 2nd part in which they have not

[Mad Nick]

JonCris,

 

eg Penalty charges £100, assuming 1 year unauthorised borrowing interest say 25%pa total £125 then add another 25%pa total £156.25

I've highlighted the bit I have a problem with. Aren't we just claiming back what they unlawfully took off us ?

 

If the charges nor interest have NOT been paid then the claim should only consist of the charges & actual interest debited to the account.

If, by "paid", you mean the balance is still in unauthorised overdraft, then I agree with you.

You may have a claim in 2 parts 1 part where the charges & interest have been paid & another 2nd part in which they have not

Not sure I understood.

 

Regards, Mad Nick

[JonCris]

Me neither so lets give up before I turn to drink.................or worse

 

Regards Jon

[photoman]

Sorry to Butt in here guys, but I think you might all find this VERY interesting !!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-467620.html

[e28bigalbexley]

[TideTurner]

WOW - this appears to be recognition that since no claims have been defended, the Banks have failed to come up with a defence. I did read in November that the Courts are inundated with bank claims and were getting a bit fed up with them.

[bill-k]

Me neither so lets give up before I turn to drink.................or worse

 

Regards Jon

 

Sorry - been away for a bit

 

Skimming through the above, I'm wondering whether the confusion here is between claiming back the apportioned interest that Milly was charged on the penalties - or claiming contractual interest on the whole of her claim for penalty charges. This does cause confusion.

 

If the good lady is claiming back the apportioned interest, then she will have to enter on her spready the details of interest and balance for each and every month she had the account, since the first penalty charge. The spready will then work out how much interest she was charged on those penalties, and then it will work out how much contractual interest she can now add to her claim with respect to that apportioned interest. However, unless she has a helluva lot of such charges, then this often doesn't amount to very much in relation to the claim as a whole, and IMO it may well not be worth the effort (or the argument !!!)

 

If, however, the honourable member is only talking about claiming back:

a. the penalty charges, and

b. contractual interest on all of those,

 

then somebody better go and yank JonCris out of the pub !!

 

Madame simply punches the charges into her spready. Then punches in the date of claim and the current contractual interest rate, et voilá - Robert is then indeed your dad's brother !!

 

Unless I (quite possibly) didn't see it, it seems that we oughtta get that straight, first.

 

Can you tell us, that, Milly ?

[bill-k]

Sorry to Butt in here guys, but I think you might all find this VERY interesting !!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-467620.html

 

Yeah - this looks really good. Keep spreading the word and the link everybody !!

[bill-k]

Just wondering if anyone can clarify the contractual interest situation.I have read all the threads and can't seem to find a clear direction.

 

 

I obviously would like to claim the contractual rate this as I was overdrawn for most of charges. However there seem to be several different opinions on this, some claim the max rate charged (34%), some the lowest (18%), some the current (18.8%) and others variable throughout the term.

 

I understand there is no concrete answer, just want to well advised direction if possible.

 

Can the contractual rate be used when unfair charges were placed when I was not in overdraft? Also is it correct to charge them that rate up to the date of the prelim letter or should it be when the balance reached zero? (if it has). Any help greatly appreciated thanks

 

Sorry if you got ignored, Agar !

 

It is generally accepted, I believe, that the contractual rate applied is the rate currently being charged by the bank, and this may be charged on all the penalties you are claiming - from the date of the very first one right up until the date of your claim (and even eventual settlement).

 

I always recommend claiming the higher ("unauthorised") rate primarily, but claim lower rate(s) and Statutory "in the alternative" if/when you file a claim in court. My post just above might also help you.

 

Bill.

[nevos]

Hi BillK: Thanks for your reply.

 

Which link bounced? The www.yourname.go2.to? this was just an example and nothing behind it. IF anyone would like the free website then just pm me your choice of name. I will set it up with a control panel you can even ftp within the panel and add goodies like chat room, create email etc. I can create a subdomain unless you have a domain name already, then you need to point to our server takes a day or two to propergate. Subdomian is instant.

 

Bill: Did you manage to look at janq's spreadies?

[bill-k]

Hi BillK: Thanks for your reply.

 

Which link bounced? The www.yourname.go2.to? this was just an example and nothing behind it. IF anyone would like the free website then just pm me your choice of name. I will set it up with a control panel you can even ftp within the panel and add goodies like chat room, create email etc. I can create a subdomain unless you have a domain name already, then you need to point to our server takes a day or two to propergate. Subdomian is instant.

 

Bill: Did you manage to look at janq's spreadies?

 

LOL - What a jerk !!! So it is !! It just goes to show I'll click anything that looks like a freebie. Serves me right if I get lumbered with every toolbar and virus that's going !! I'll PM you about it, thanks. My fileshare facility is playing up at the mo, so I'm v. interested.

 

Yeah I looked at JQ's spreadies. Although they're entitled "Compounded Monthly" they're not actually calculating compound interest. They simply add up the interest charged on a cumulative monthly basis. Good for the use they were intended, I reckon, but not really for calculating contractual interest on our penalties here. They could be adapted though, and I'd be glad to do so if Jan wanted me to, as they're another format of spready that people might like to use.

[nevos]

BillK

 

Nevos - the free website you mention would be ideal for this stuff, if that's possible. I'll follow your link.

Im wondering if I can create a site for all to use so everyone has the user name and password identical CAG admin could then choose any uploads for their site if they feel they are of use. (Had a thought on this: until i can add a gateway for file upload then members could email the files to be uploaded to start with, I will put a link for that upload).

Im happy to provide commercial web sites from £5 per month for CAG members and even donate 50% of the proceeds to CAG.

 

Have created a site to test out CAG Members

Perhaps a MOD could comment on this idea in case it is not acceptable to CAG admin, thanks!

 

[bill-k]

Yep, the link works, Nevos - takes us to the Welcome page.

 

What's next ?

[e28bigalbexley]

Ooooooh tangerine and blue my youngest's football team colours,

 

More importantly how did you do that? is it difficult can i pm you(seriously).

 

AL:)

[millymollymoo]

Sorry - been away for a bit

 

Skimming through the above, I'm wondering whether the confusion here is between claiming back the apportioned interest that Milly was charged on the penalties - or claiming contractual interest on the whole of her claim for penalty charges. This does cause confusion.

 

If the good lady is claiming back the apportioned interest, then she will have to enter on her spready the details of interest and balance for each and every month she had the account, since the first penalty charge. The spready will then work out how much interest she was charged on those penalties, and then it will work out how much contractual interest she can now add to her claim with respect to that apportioned interest. However, unless she has a helluva lot of such charges, then this often doesn't amount to very much in relation to the claim as a whole, and IMO it may well not be worth the effort (or the argument !!!)

 

If, however, the honourable member is only talking about claiming back:

a. the penalty charges, and

b. contractual interest on all of those,

 

then somebody better go and yank JonCris out of the pub !!

 

Madame simply punches the charges into her spready. Then punches in the date of claim and the current contractual interest rate, et voilá - Robert is then indeed your dad's brother !!

 

Unless I (quite possibly) didn't see it, it seems that we oughtta get that straight, first.

 

Can you tell us, that, Milly ?

 

 

Ello bill-k:)

Correct one is just the penalty charges and then the spready works out the contractual interest on all those. Vamp's spready no 13.

 

 

Madame.... you cheeky ape!!!

[nevos]

Hi Bill-K

 

A couple of things I would like admin to endorse the idea, I dont want to stand on anyones toeas here.

 

If admin think it is a reasonable idea then, I need to install a gateway for folks to upload files or for now, files can be emailed to me and I will upload them with links to the various areas like spreadsheets folder etc...

 

Waiting for a green light however, I will develop the site more with some ideas.

 

[TideTurner]

Guys, get your lips around this post!

 

KAZZAW v Lloyds Asset Card - EVERYONE READ POST 15 !!!!!!

 

General Form of Judgment or Order

 

To the Claimant

 

kazzaw

 

 

Before District Judge ................. sitting at Lincoln County Court.

 

EX PARTE

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The Court of its own motion is considering striking the Defence out as an abuse of process on the basis that it has settled all previous claims of this nature. If the Defendant objects to this course of action it is to file at Court within 14 days, a Schedule setting out a list of all claims it has pursued to trial and all claims it has settled.

 

Dated 28 December 2006

[natwesttookmymoney]

Wooooooow!

That would be a true beaut.

Oh yum yum.

Oh gobble gobble.

I am so happy I could evacuate.

That is absolutely fantastic.

 

I wonder if they'll reply?

 

W

[MilkTrayMan]

Morning All!

A very nice development indeed!!!

What type of Court issued the Order though?

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that if it was only a Small Claims Court, then it DOESN'T form a legal precedent for other Claims?!

[JonCris]

Correct it will be a County Court which will NOT set a precedent but you can quote it in any litigation, when the case is settled, YOUR bringing against the bank or card companies.

 

Of course the court can ignore it but on the other hand they may be minded to issue a simular order (particularly in the case of Lloyds) with a view to saving court time

[MilkTrayMan]

Hi JonCris,

Thanks for confirming to me what I already thought!

But doesn't this make the likelyhood of the Banks ever defending a probable losing Test Case, which would surely help our cause more, seem even more remote?

...and just encourage them to carry on with the same old type of "discouragement" which they are engaging in already?!

...Albeit to an earlier point, than that which they have done previously with some Claimants, within the Court process?!!