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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Mbna 'agreement' - now threat of legal action


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I have had the same MBNA letter for all of my accounts...2 yesterday. It's just a means of reeling you in. You need to CCA them asap. Standard letters and 'rules' available on this site...just search.

 

Good luck!

 

Many thanks for the prompt reply. I will do the same for my other creditors.

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I have had the same MBNA letter for all of my accounts...2 yesterday. It's just a means of reeling you in. You need to CCA them asap. Standard letters and 'rules' available on this site...just search.

 

Good luck!

 

PS When you don't contact them the follow up letter (4 weeks later) will ask you for circa 30% and tell you that this is a partial settlement. They will also threaten to default and sell your account which is why you must act and CCA them now.

 

The letters for the 40% offer also contained threats to sell the account on. I am guessing this is them trying to recover as much as they can and sign people on to enforceable agreements before it all goes wrong for them.

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The letters for the 40% offer also contained threats to sell the account on. I am guessing this is them trying to recover as much as they can and sign people on to enforceable agreements before it all goes wrong for them.

 

If it's the same as mine it will suggest that you borrow off a family member to settle the debt!!

 

You shouldn't respond to these as it's seen as sign that you're both willing to pay and also have the means to pay. CCA them and get a goods night sleep until they manage to produce a properly executed agreement...which won't be for a while...if at all!!

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

MBNA Cards

 

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If it's the same as mine it will suggest that you borrow off a family member to settle the debt!!

 

You shouldn't respond to these as it's seen as sign that you're both willing to pay and also have the means to pay. CCA them and get a goods night sleep until they manage to produce a properly executed agreement...which won't be for a while...if at all!!

 

 

Many thanks. I will definitely do that tomorrow.

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The 40% reduction offers are just a standard template letter. If you read them carefully it says something like 'we will not collect the balance'. They don't mention that you'll think it's been paid in full but they'll be selling the balance onto a DCA.

 

As WelshMam said - don't tell them you'd like to but you don't have the money, or anything similar. You could write and complain about the method used (ie contravening OFT guidelines), but it won't do any good aside from showing that you are willing to keep in contact (good if it ever gets to court). Otherwise, yes, just ignore it.

 

It seems to be nigh on impossible to get on a pp with them. You need to be paying enough to pay the balance off in 120 months, as they of course are goverened by USA laws. Or so they'll tell you. It's complete bow larks. If they wanted to accept a lower offer, as a company they could, they just choose not to.

 

They also don't stop interest/charges for ages despite knowing you are in financial trouble. Complete a**eh**es the lot of them.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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hiya all

 

a newbie that has scanned their mbna agreements, can we all take a peek and see if they can help any of us or if we can help coffeetime

 

cheers angel x

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/188640-received-two-ccas-they.html

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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That's a good point, Welshmam. Thanks. :)

 

Think I'll start making noises to them about my doubts of their documents authenticity - which I was all set to do a month ago before wasting time on a cr*ppy time wasting shark of a lawyer.:rolleyes:

 

That's what I would be inclined to do UD.

 

I tend to keep things vague at first before going in for the kill. So you could even start by simply asking them if they are 100% certain that this is indeed a true copy of your agreement. You will have planted the seeds of doubt and if they come back and say 'yes' (more ammunition) then you can start highighting your specific concerns.

 

Good luck...:D

 

UD, as Welshmam says.. dont spell it out for them. Ask innocuous questions. Let them trip themselves up. Letters by lexis 200 are a good place to start she has a devious way of requesting information :D

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I did all that – asked them outright if the application was copied exactly – they sold me on – think I hit a raw nerve.

I am waiting for 1ST Credit to pick up the baton – my plan now is to tell them that I believe I have been misled and will be reporting them to trading standards and the OFT to investigate – that’s if they want a fight that is.

I think TS is the only realistic option – if they smell fraud then they can prosecute and it’s not a civil matter either it’s a criminal one. Maybe a mass complaint to Cheshire TS will get the ball rolling.

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I did all that – asked them outright if the application was copied exactly – they sold me on – think I hit a raw nerve.

 

I am waiting for 1ST Credit to pick up the baton – my plan now is to tell them that I believe I have been misled and will be reporting them to trading standards and the OFT to investigate – that’s if they want a fight that is.

 

I think TS is the only realistic option – if they smell fraud then they can prosecute and it’s not a civil matter either it’s a criminal one. Maybe a mass complaint to Cheshire TS will get the ball rolling.

 

 

hiya atwozee you know thats not too bad an idea, however, cl finance they would fall under the cheshire ts too do you think or have i got that wrong ? (this is for my ge accounts)

 

cos my letter i got from cl finance was copied for the ts area by my local area....and now they admitted that they had sent me wrong info firstly but now had sent me correct rear of agreement ie application form. but it contains pin info and my card does not support pin and as it was 2005 i smell a bit of concoction to match up previoulsy disputed section which now miracalously matches what i diputed before - if you get my drift!

 

sorry for hijacking your thread underdog

 

also to welshmam,,,i noted your earlier posting about the seed of doubt, i think this is what ive done and not heard from cl finance for quite a few months,,,,however, i always expect a court action letter in the post,,,,

 

so really i do need to follow this up again or should i just go for the kill with their ts area team???

 

something ive learned again today huge thanks,,,, see my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/160682-debenhams-sold-c-l.html

 

laters angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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UD, as Welshmam says.. dont spell it out for them. Ask innocuous questions. Let them trip themselves up. Letters by lexis 200 are a good place to start she has a devious way of requesting information :D

 

Thanks, CitB - I will have a look at Lexis' devious missives:)

 

Just kidding Lexis; you do write exceedingly good letters:D

Edited by underdog13
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I did all that – asked them outright if the application was copied exactly – they sold me on – think I hit a raw nerve.

 

I am waiting for 1ST Credit to pick up the baton – my plan now is to tell them that I believe I have been misled and will be reporting them to trading standards and the OFT to investigate – that’s if they want a fight that is.

 

I think TS is the only realistic option – if they smell fraud then they can prosecute and it’s not a civil matter either it’s a criminal one. Maybe a mass complaint to Cheshire TS will get the ball rolling.

 

Thanks for that Atwozee - that's interesting to know. Who did you address your query to? I was wondering whether to contact MBNA's solicitors.

 

Great idea about the mass complaint - it must be harder to ignore dozens if not hundreds of people, surely?

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hiya atwozee you know thats not too bad an idea, however, cl finance they would fall under the cheshire ts too do you think or have i got that wrong ? (this is for my ge accounts)

 

cos my letter i got from cl finance was copied for the ts area by my local area....and now they admitted that they had sent me wrong info firstly but now had sent me correct rear of agreement ie application form. but it contains pin info and my card does not support pin and as it was 2005 i smell a bit of concoction to match up previoulsy disputed section which now miracalously matches what i diputed before - if you get my drift!

 

sorry for hijacking your thread underdog

 

also to welshmam,,,i noted your earlier posting about the seed of doubt, i think this is what ive done and not heard from cl finance for quite a few months,,,,however, i always expect a court action letter in the post,,,,

 

so really i do need to follow this up again or should i just go for the kill with their ts area team???

 

something ive learned again today huge thanks,,,, see my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/160682-debenhams-sold-c-l.html

 

laters angel x

 

It's no hi-jack, Angel - this is very relevant to my case; and to all of us on here, I think:)

 

It's really helpful to hear how others proceed and what results they get - so please everyone, continue to post on this thread:)

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Maybe a mass complaint to Cheshire TS will get the ball rolling.

 

Oh I agree, however being the largest employer in Cheshire.. I doubt TS will do anyrhing. In fact, I made my first complaint to them as have others and they just knock it back to local TS who of course, have no idea.

 

Thanks, CitB - I will have a look at Lexis' devious missives:)

 

Just kidding Lexis; you do write exceedingly good letters:D

 

I understand she bakes exceedingly good cakes as well UD :p

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Got some developments that I am cautiously optimistic about:)

 

Have been in contact with a new lawyer - this one actually seems genuine, unlike the last shower; at least he's willing to talk to me without a fee upfront! Have heard some very good things about this guy, so here's hoping...

 

He has confirmed that if we can prove MBNA's (alleged:rolleyes:) cut and pasting, then they are guilty of financial fraud:D.

 

He suggests forming an action group and bringing a group action/defence - well we're halfway there with that; anyone interested in the group action?

 

He advises that it would be useful to acquire the services of a copy document technician - any one have any contacts, relatives, friends in the copy document field?

 

Further suggests requiring the company to hand over all paperwork regarding the development of its T+Cs over the years - it was possibly outsourced to a large firm of lawyers who are not going to mess around falsifying their files.

Find out whether each version of the T+C as used has to be registered with FSA [or someone] or some body keeps track of these changes.

Does anyone have copies of their application forms/agreements, or T&Cs - even blank historic ones? I know Blue squirrel has copies of his agreements, but does anyone else?

I have some historic T&Cs, how about anyone else?

I'm going to talk further with the solicitor, tomorrow if poss.

Any takers?:D

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Hiya Underdog,

 

Nice to see you got some movement on this regarding a solicitor, seems to me that solicitors have not got the -alls to take on a big financial institution

 

I tried getting one yesterday without luck even though my case is now pretty solid regarding the fraudulent DN.

 

im gona be sending a few letters and try and find out why solicitors are not willing to enforce the cca 1974 for consumers.

 

I think its also a good idea to start a GLO on MBNA too as they are the biggest credit card provider buying up all the books from other providers and not insuring in that process that they have all relevant documents.

 

There must be many thousands of people in the uk that will now find themselves in financial difficulties and then find that they have a battle on there hands regarding lack of documentation.

 

MBNA,s fraudulent activity's are widespread i believe.

 

The fact that MBNA call sidestep all Protocols, CPR, CCA etc and railroad a claim to get a CCJ really gets me.

 

PF

 

When i am done with them its not gona stop there i will be actively seeking recourse.

Finally if you succeed with your claim please consider a donation to consumer action group as those donations keep this site alive.

 R.I.P BOB aka ROOSTER-UK you have always been a Gent on these boards and you will be remembered for that.

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