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Do i need a telly licence


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hi

just been reading someone`s telly licence nightmare and i`m wondering if i need a licence

i`ve been smug about my setup but now i`m not so sure

i`ve got one of those computer grapics cards with two outputs so i invested in a 42 inch plazma monitor and linked it to my computer and i watch the progs i want using the internet,i do not have a tv card in the computer so it all comes down the wire`s via internet explorer as i have no wireless reciever therefore no means of picking up tv signals that way i`ve assumed i do not need a licence,does anyone know if this is correct

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SOUNDS ok to me, but I am no expert, if you havnt got a tv card and the tv isnt connected via an ariel or satellite servive then this should be ok, but you are in for a world of harrassment from tv licensing

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oh i`ve had the letters but kind folks that they are they make it plain who`s sent them so you can just bin them without the effort of opening :)

Then the man came and i told him i`ve got a monitor not a telly,he wasn`t satisfied so i let him in to look,he stood about 15 feet away went hmmm ok then and off he went, it could have been a tv but he didn`t examine closer and i did`nt give him any info he didn`t ask for mind you having three dogs trying to batter the kitchen door down to get to him might of helped not that they`d of done anything exept lick him to death but he didn`t know that :grin: not heard anything since and its been nine months

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its good for lots of things,no accidental watching of crap that means no soaps and above all no news and i`ve extended that to no newspapers,its hard to do but worth it when ya get used to it.the banks fell apart,my flat lost 15% of its value and i knew nothing about it till weeks later and by that time there`s no point in worrying and as for disasters.what disasters,my world has far less probs than it used to have,they say ignorance is bliss and it is regarding stuff that knowing about or not will not make a blind bit of difference too

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I have only a PC in the house with no TV card, no TV what so ever.

 

The TV man visited and advised that the licence is for 'broadcasting and/or receiving equipment' not just for Tv (radio for example) i was given a warning and then had to purchase licence.

 

Note: As i download and watch programmes via the internet - he stated as such i needed a licence - as i was 'receiving'

 

(If this is not the case can you let me know as it will save £10 odd pounds a month as i do not own or watch terrestrial TV and may ask for my monies back!!)

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I have only a PC in the house with no TV card, no TV what so ever.

Then you most definitey DO NOT need a licence!

 

The TV man visited and advised that the licence is for 'broadcasting and/or receiving equipment' not just for Tv (radio for example) i was given a warning and then had to purchase licence.

It is not an offence to own receiving equipment. Nor do you need a licence for radio.

Note: As i download and watch programmes via the internet - he stated as such i needed a licence - as i was 'receiving'

The "TV man" is nothing more than a salesman and in this case has deceived you into buying a licence you simply do not need.

(If this is not the case can you let me know as it will save £10 odd pounds a month as i do not own or watch terrestrial TV and may ask for my monies back!!)

Yes, stop paying and demand a refund. No doubt you will receive lots of threatograms from TVL, but you can safely ignore these. BTW, nobody has to let a TVL employee into their home, no matter what they say, unless they have a warrant (very rare)

..

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I have only a PC in the house with no TV card, no TV what so ever.

 

The TV man visited and advised that the licence is for 'broadcasting and/or receiving equipment' not just for Tv (radio for example) i was given a warning and then had to purchase licence.

 

Note: As i download and watch programmes via the internet - he stated as such i needed a licence - as i was 'receiving'

 

(If this is not the case can you let me know as it will save £10 odd pounds a month as i do not own or watch terrestrial TV and may ask for my monies back!!)

 

i think your mistake was telling them you download tv progs and watch them,but saying that you have nothing thats used for the purpose of watching tv so i`d imagine you should not need a licence

i certainly would not buy one with your setup and i short of telling them how would they know ? its like needing a licence to watch dvd`s

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From their site;

 

"You need a TV Licence to use any television receiving equipment such as a TV set, digital box, DVD or video recorder, PC, laptop or mobile phone to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV"

 

Many sites run the odd live feed parallel with television programmes nowadays so I'd be careful. Though there's not a TV receiving card in your equipment, if you can stream TV via your broadband / internet connection, I'm sure any clued up TV Licencing officer would point this out.

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Many sites run the odd live feed parallel with television programmes nowadays so I'd be careful. Though there's not a TV receiving card in your equipment, if you can stream TV via your broadband / internet connection, I'm sure any clued up TV Licencing officer would point this out.

Nope. The offence is watching or recording television programmes as they are being broadcast. Even if there is a live parallel stream, TVL still have to prove the offence took place.

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Fair enough. And I've just had a friend point out that if you own a TV set fully capable of receiving broadcasts but choose to ensure it's always completely unplugged and never switched on then you're not required to pay for a licence either.

 

The key word is 'use' on their website then i guess!

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If you have a working TV set but only use it to watch DVDs or play games etc, it is still a wise precaution to remove any aerial leads and to de-tune the channels. This is because under the Communications Act, an offence is committed by using or installing to use a TV to receive programmes as they are being broadcast.

 

Unplugging the aerial and de-tuning the set means the TV is no longer installed for that purpose.

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i'm afraid to say that is not enough, you would have to the remove the tuner/receiver part of the television, which then it would be a Video Monitor , eg, input via scart etc

 

the offence is "to install a TV receiver and that It is capable of receiving TV broadcasts etc"

which in laymans terms "is to plug it in" it does not nead an aerial connected

 

if you read the WTA "wireless telegraphy act 1949 and amendments" it is clearly defined,

 

this argument and the myths behind it have been around for years

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i'm afraid to say that is not enough, you would have to the remove the tuner/receiver part of the television, which then it would be a Video Monitor , eg, input via scart etc

 

the offence is "to install a TV receiver and that It is capable of receiving TV broadcasts etc"

which in laymans terms "is to plug it in" it does not nead an aerial connected

 

if you read the WTA "wireless telegraphy act 1949 and amendments" it is clearly defined,

 

this argument and the myths behind it have been around for years

I'm afraid that you are wrong!

I will try and find the details, but I have seen a letter from TVL answering this very point on another forum. I repeat that if the aerial is disconnected and the channels are de-tuned, then the set is no longer capable of receiving broadcasts. You cannot be expected to damage your TV set.

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Robin, no ofence intended, but

 

I do hold other licence's for transmitting radio and TV, and part of obtaining those is an exam in licensing regulations, and have been in the communications industry for 40+ years i can assure you its correct, having worked with the POST OFFICE, DTI, RADIO AGENCY and OFCOM all which have controlled the "WTA 1949"

 

the offence of "NO TV LICENCE" for a device, is commited if you INSTALL a device that is "CAPABLE of RECEIVNG A TV TRANSMISSION" detunning ( no channels stored etc ) removing aerial etc does not the remove the fact of "BEING CAPABLE"

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Kiptower, with respect to your experience, you are still wrong. In order to install a TV set to watch programmes as they are being broadcast, one must tune it in. Therefore it can reasonably be argued that if the set is not tuned in it is not installed for that purpose - hence no licence required.

 

I have managed to find three letters from TVL confirming the position:

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Note the law is crystal clear on this.

 

You need a licence to install and use equipment to receive television shows as they are broadcast.

 

This means if you just rely on iplayer to watch shows afterwards then you do not need a licence as you are not receiving them as they are broadcast. Likewise, if you have a set but do not use it to receive live TV then you do not need a licence.

 

As it is a criminal offence to break this law the prosecution have to prove you have. Hence TVL have to prove that you have used your TV equipment to receive broadcasts live... Regardless, if you are not doing so you have no case to prove and so you do not need a licence, since it is not against the law to do that and they need to prove the breach beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

You do not need to prove you do not use TV - they need to prove you are.

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

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Once my youngest left home my TV never got switched on - I figured because I never watched it I didn't need a license. Unfortunately the man from the TV Licensing wasn't of the same opinion. In spite of the TV being unplugged - no batteries in the remote - the aerial being unplugged and the digi box disappearing under said youngsters arm. I was told that if I had taken the plug off the TV then he would have accepted that I didn't watch it but because the tv had a plug on it was deemed capable of receiving therefore I had to cough up for the licence and it would be back dated to when the old one expired, but I would be given the benefit of the doubt and not fined if I paid with in a set period. - I paid up!

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TVL have often misled the PUBLIC and by the way that letter was 1998, there have been updates in 2003 and 2004, however there have been cases that went to court and TVL lost, several in Wales where there was no TV coverage, period, and they lost, because the TV could not receive a signal.

Most recently made TV’s are processor controlled and if you know how to get into the advanced engineering menu’s it very easy to turn off the tuner section, once done no matter what aerial or modulated signal you input to the aerial socket it wont tune, by definition it would no longer be a TV receiver, and would not need a license whilst in that mode.

I don’t recommend you dive in and try it yourself; it’s for the TV experts / engineers.

The problem is if you tell TVL I don’t use it for TV reception they will send someone round, it wont be the basic guy who knocks on your door asking if you have a license, ( yes people do try it on, and remove the aerial , detune the set for the visit etc ) he will know what to look for, he may have already made several visits without knocking, and used basic detection kit, its not that hard to detect a TV when its on , TV radiate on IF frequencies, and by tuning detection device you can infact calculate what channels was being watched, if it was done from inside a vehicle to detect it they will have the screen capture dated and timed.

yes a lot of sites say they are just empty vans and they cant detect anything, very much a myth, however it doesn’t mean them vans with TVL splashed all over it do have kit in them (often they are scare tactics) but beware they do have a lot of covert vehicles which are multi purpose, not just TV detection, from time to time Ofcom do show some of they Hi-Tec in the vehicles @ Amateur Radio Rallies just to show they can do it.

And on a personal note I think the license is no more than a stealth tax, the more the public fight against it the better.

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Once my youngest left home my TV never got switched on - I figured because I never watched it I didn't need a license. Unfortunately the man from the TV Licensing wasn't of the same opinion. In spite of the TV being unplugged - no batteries in the remote - the aerial being unplugged and the digi box disappearing under said youngsters arm. I was told that if I had taken the plug off the TV then he would have accepted that I didn't watch it but because the tv had a plug on it was deemed capable of receiving therefore I had to cough up for the licence and it would be back dated to when the old one expired, but I would be given the benefit of the doubt and not fined if I paid with in a set period. - I paid up!

That is wrong - he essentially sold you a licence (yes, they are salesmen since they have no powers of enforcement other than any other member of the public) which you did not need, since you were not using the TV to receive (which is the key point - you need to RECEIVE to commit the crime) TV signals as they were broadcast.

 

Note that a TV solely playing videos recorded from TV on other premises does not need a licence but if you watch live broadcasts on your PC through BBC Iplayer then you do, even if you do not own a TV.

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

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hows this for complicating matters then ;

the only channel that does not run live feeds is the bbc and as they are the one`s the licence fee is for surely a licence is not neccesary

it seems to me that it is down to the individual enforcement person to try and get you to pay even if you dont have to

Lets face it the whole thing is a con if you have sky or cable you already pay the people who send you the progs tis upto sky or cable to get the licence as they are the one`s reciving the original broardcast and i`d imagine watching either of them there is a delay,maybe its only milliseconds but that would mean the feeds are not live as such,not law maybe,but should be.

and one more point

i had a computer before they used to send live feeds or any tv through the net and they have foisted it upon me so i cant see how they can demand money for a service you did not ask for but can pick up.i`d imagine they`d have to prove you use it and to do that someone would have to come and check your internet history and there`s no way thats happening

when the man comes say "i dont have a tv,video,cable,sattelite or set top box of any description" your not lying if you just watch on your computer

or better still dont answer the door to people you dont want to just get a camera and link it to your not tv :)

Dont think there`s a law that says you have to answer the door is there ?

S.C

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Actually, the BBC news channel is available live on the internet and if you watch it, you do require a licence. However, I imagine it would be difficult for TVL to prove. As Forestchav said, it is TVL who must prove that you watched.

 

Unfortunately, the delay you speak of does not remove the need for a licence. Under the law, they are still considered live broadcasts.

 

No, you are under no obligation to answer your door and more importantly, you certainly do not have to let any TVL employee in (unless they have a warrant). My understanding is that TVL warrants are incredibly rare - single figures per year.

 

Kiptower, TV detection equipment does exist, but TVL never use it: its all scare tactics. As I understand it, there has yet to be a court case where someone has been prosecuted using evidence from detection equipment.

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