Is this a standard or dodgy CCA request reply from HSBC?

[lisaf]

Yep sure have - not that there's much left to be honest!

Having a bad couple of days! Need to feel inspired again to continue the fight!

 

Lisa x

[underdog13]

So sorry to hear you're having a bad time; my thoughts are with you. I'd have a drink or some choccie (whatever's your fave indulgence), if I were you and kick back for a while.

Hope things improve for you soon.

[lisaf]

Thanks so much Underdog - normally i can handle pretty much anything thrown at me but the last 2 days have been very testing!

Talk about choccie - OH who has been working away most of the week has just walked in and given me a massive bag of pick and mix! Must have read my mind.

Lisa x

[underdog13]

There you go - things are looking up already;) I know how you feel; I think most us feel overburdened sometimes when everything seems to go wrong. Enjoy your weekend, recharge your batteries and come out fighting on Monday:)

[lisaf]

Will do! x

[citizenB]

That's priceless. Well you just came across someone(me) who didn't manage to work that one out on her own, so I guess that makes you a superior intelligence.! LOL

 

 

 

Pipster, I hope you can use the information to your advantage.

 

Lisa.. would the wages department not be able to recall the payment they made incorrectly to your bank ? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of banking procedures can advise you on that one.

[lisaf]

Right! Ready to pick up the fight now! Can anyone else have a peruse over the 'agreement' and let me know what they think?

Haven't heard anything yet from hsbc regarding the latest letter i sent to say that they haven't provided a 'true' copy.

Thanks in advance

LIsa

[lisaf]

Any of the legal bods kind enough to have a look please? Many thanks in advance x

[citizenB]

But the page with your sig is nothing more than a standing order mandate.

 

How do we know that the other pages have anything to do with it, the prescribed terms are not on the sig page and the is no mention of where they are to be found.

 

This has hardly been done in the prescribed format according to the CCA.

 

Theres plenty of space on the page for the terms.

 

The sad thing is there are some judges it seems who would except such a document was enforceable

 

I think the fact that they were phishing for your signature gives the game away here.

 

I am assuming that these are all separate pieces of paper.

 

The part you have signed is just a standing order mandate. Anybody could slot that between sheets of paper claiming you owe them £20million or anything else.

 

CCM is sadly right that some judges will and do enforce rubbish - but this should certainly NOT be enforced, and if I was you I would be challenging them all the way on it.

 

I'll have a read of the rest of the thread and see if there is anything else you can challenge them on should it go to court.

 

Keep the phishing letters - any good judge will know that you don't demand signatures in response to a CCA request, and will have a very good inkling as to why they have done so in this case.

 

SH

 

Lisa, I have brought forward comments made by Creditcardmug and scabhunter.

 

What exactly are you intending to do next ?

[adamski]

Im not 100% sure but what was said here.

 

Has anyone else noticed the fact that 131 payments would take you to 2016, not 2026? Don't know if this makes any difference though.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

From what i have learned is this that makes the agreement unenforcable as the prescribed terms are wrongly calculated there may be other mistakes i.e.e the inerst calculations etc.

 

Were there charges and PPi on the loan?

Edited November 19, 2008 by adamski

[citizenB]

thanks for bringing that one forward adamski.. I missed it.

[lisaf]

Hi Guys - there weren't any charges on the loan and i don't think any ppi, but not 100% certain.

Thanks for all your replies - always appreciated.

Citizen - I sent off the letter to them a few weeks ago telling them they hadn't complied fully but haven't heard anything back as yet.

Lisa x

[DCA-KING]

your bank account numbers on 3rd page

[adamski]

ok

When you get your CCA or SAR you will soon find out if you had charges or PPi where you ever late paying?

[lisaf]

Hi Adamski,

will send off SAR today (know i should have done it a lot sooner). We have missed one payment - about 3 months ago and the last one (November's) we tried to cancel and couldn't and although we had changed OH's wages so they were going into a different account/different bank etc, they didn't do it in time and took the loan money out as soon as his wages went in a few days later!

Pretty sure we didn't have ppi but you never know with this lot, we could have been coerced into anything at that time!

Lisa x

[lisaf]

Would anyone else be so kind as to have a look at the agreement - just to set my mind at rest!

Many many thanks

Lisa x

[lisaf]

Anyone? xxx

[citizenB]

Lisa, I am not too sure what else people can say. There were one or two glaring errors present on the agreement, people have already commented on those for you.

[lisaf]

Hi CitizenB - I know you're right. I think i was just panicking a bit as it's for such a high amount.

I suppose what i'm trying to do is look for some peace of mind to know i'm doing the right thing and that i have a good chance of fighting this!

I really appreciate your help.

Lisa x

[citizenB]

Hi lisa,

 

Without reading back through your thread, have you sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to HSBC ?. If not, that might be the way to go. I found more ammunition to beat up HSBC by asking for all the information they had on OH.

 

Oops, sorry I have just seen that you have sent SAR. Wait until that arrives and go through it with a fine tooth comb.

[lisaf]

Sorry to sound thick CB but what more info will i glean from an SAR? Although i have sent it off as i am intrigued!

Thanks again for replying

Lisa x

[citizenB]

Sorry to sound thick CB but what more info will i glean from an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)? Although i have sent it off as i am intrigued!

Thanks again for replying

Lisa x

 

 

Lisa, you say in your first post that this was a managed loan.

 

From the paperwork in the SAR you should be able to work out, how they have come to the conclusion that you had sufficient funding to repay this.

 

For example. My OH was told an overdraft agreement was being cancelled and HSBC's plan was to rollup his HSBC credit card and the overdraft balance into a personal loan. Not only did they screw up by applying a PPI (he is disabled and only works for about 12 hours a week,therefore PPI not applicable) but they "manipulated" income and expenditure figures to ensure there was sufficient funds to pay just the HSBC loan. They also included my income (but not expenditure) for a loan that I was not party to.

 

HSBC fooolishly included the advisor's figures on how they had manipulated those figures. Something I wouldnt have had from a CCA request.

 

It was also discovered that there was no agreement for the Credit card they had rolled up into the loan. No agreement - no debt.

[lisaf]

Oh I see! Thanks so much CB - i am soo interested to see what they have on me as it incorporated 2 overdrafts and OH's credit card. He is also self-employed which would make any ppi invalid!

Lisa x

[lisaf]

((((bump)))))

[hsbcfiddled]

((((bump)))))

 

Ok Lisaf. I have found your thread - read through it - and taken a look at your agreement.

I must say that the quality of people putting in comments and advice are of the highest standard (names that have helped me) and you dont really need my 'penny worth' but all the same thank you for asking.

 

So heres my thoughts.

I noted the end date of 2026 (highlighted by FB) and thought 'my god'.

Adamski pointed out that their may be other interest calculations wrong if they have the end date 10 years out.

 

First look at the agreement - and it doesnt look like mine- in type format or in resembelance.

My agreement :They produced two- One from local branch which they crossed out printed monthly figures and wrote in 4 weekly figures to align with my 4 weekly pay- The other agreement came from head office was same details with no alterations.

Changing the monthly payment dates did not then calculate correctly with the interest rate advised on the agreement, or the printed monthly payments.

The agreement had not been dated by me- therefore my rights to cancel would not have a start or end date.

Finally I noticed that it was not my normal signature.

 

In conclusion re your agreement. I dont know. It certainly doesnt resemble what I expected to see. End date is wrong- Interest MAY therefore be wrong- but more likely a typing error of 2026 instead of 2016- but then has the document been drawn up correctly?

 

Even so all is not lost, a few answers required please;

Have you had bank charges- if so were they absorbed into your overdraft and subsequently the ML?

 

Did you send them the letter (from Scabhunter) informing that the ML was disputed by you?

Have you sent the letter re CCA 1974 (from 42man)?

Have they replied to either?

 

I have been helping a friend with his Barclay loan -They sent out an agreement and it looked very similar to what you have.

Well we called their bluff and stated that we didnt believe it was a copy of the actual agreement. That was in January 2008.

We offered on several occasions to attend the local branch to view the original because we didnt believe they held it.

I then in June 2008 (i think) went along with my friend to his local branch and met the Manager (its amazing how poor their knowledge of the CCA1974 is) he kindly showed me the agreement. "Drat" I hear you say (or something stronger).

However this agreement was was a computerised file in Glasgow records (i seem to remember).

I told the manager that the file scanned onto a computer didnt prove that they had retained the original- The original has to be provided in court- NOT A COPY.

We continued to call their bluff and my friend moved his pay to another bank or BS because like you they snatched it -even if you put it in there for other purposes.

In September my friend got a letter infoming him that 'after an extensive search they could not locate the original document'

They still sent him letters telling him that he hadnt made payments blah, blah, blah. That has now ceased since he sent them a copy of the letter.

 

I believe, and if you think about it, in some cases originals may have been destroyed because banks may rely on scans/photocopies of originals because knobody was likely to challenge them. Well not until it all kicked off with the charges. However it cannot be all agreements destroyed, because my own case does disproves my theory.

So not all because HSBC had mine, but they have certainly 'lost' others, and Barclays didnt have my friends. So theres hope.

It must cost a fortune in the storage of piles and piles of documents- Costing them money.

 

For now I think I said enough- until I have read your replies.

 

A little more advice though:

Have another read through your thread there is excellent advice contributed and further ideas of how to 'muddy the waters' and the more mud you can throw at them, the more chance some of it will stick!

Like Barclays they may not have the original at all.

 

One more question;

Part of the ML is regular (annually minimum one would expect) reviews of your situation. Did you have one? I probably know the answer, but please tell me anyway.

 

hsbcfiddled

Edited December 9, 2008 by hsbcfiddled
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