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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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lowells again


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Thank you so much. I've only been here 5 months. you would think I'd get the hang of it by now :)

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I would change 'demand' to requests.....

 

By virtue of the fact that they sent you a default notice to the wrong address (and you have proof from your SAR that you supplied them with your new address) i'd pretty much say they were in a spot of bother !!

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Not sure if you want to include this too...

 

  • Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

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Not sure if you want to include this too...

 

  • Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

 

 

42man, thanks for that. I will certainly include the above and the extra info in your previous post.

 

fox

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I do not consider this an unreasonable demand given that supplying me with the documents requested will allow me to assess if my case has merit and help resolve matters without the need to involve the court and obviously save costs on both sides.

 

 

Might be worth deleting this as it isn't a case of being 'reasonable' it is a LEGAL request.....in fact change 'demand' to 'legal request'

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Please confirm if you still hold a copy of any signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document and any other document you seek to rely on should court action become necessary.

 

As you haven't issued a court claim as yet, you can't ask them for this....

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Top of the page write REQUEST FOR INFORMATION - Civil Procedure Rules 31.16

 

 

Now I'm confused.

 

should i replace "Letter Before Action" with the above or include it under the main heading??

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Sorry to anyone who reads any of my previous posts. I deleted them to avoid confusion.

 

This is the latest draft after a hell of a lot of input from 42man( got to spread the rep before I can click you again :()

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION- CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 31.16

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

I am in receipt of your letter dated *th February 2009. The contents are noted. In your letter you state that this was your final response. It may be your final response but it isn't mine.

 

 

In your letter dated **th December 2008 you state that a Notice of Assignment dated ** February 2007(which in a letter dated **rd December I informed you I had not received), was sent to me in accordance with section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and as you are relying on the Act to enforce debts you should also be aware of section 196 which I reproduce verbatim below,

 

 

196 Regulations respecting notices

 

 

 




      1. Any notice required or authorised to be served or given by this Act shall be in writing.
      2. Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served on a lessee or mortgagor shall be sufficient, although only addressed to the lessee or mortgagor by that designation, without his name, or generally to the persons interested, without any name, and notwithstanding that any person to be affected by the notice is absent, under disability, unborn, or unascertained.
      3. Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall be sufficiently served if it is left at the last-known place of abode or business in the United Kingdom of the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, or, in case of a notice required or authorised to be served on a lessee or mortgagor, is affixed or left for him on the land or house or building comprised in the lease or mortgage, or, in the case of a mining lease, is left for the lessee at the office or counting-house of the mine.
      4. Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall be sufficiently served, if it is sent by post in a registered letter addressed to the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, by name, at the aforesaid place of abode or business, office, or counting-house, and if that letter is not returned [by the postal operator (within the meaning of the Postal Services Act 2000) concerned] undelivered; and that service shall be deemed to be made at the time at which the registered letter would in the ordinary course be delivered.
      5. The provisions of this section shall extend to notices required to be served by any instrument affecting property executed or coming into operation after the commencement of this Act unless a contrary intention appears.
      6. This section does not apply to notices served in proceedings in the court.
      7.  

         

        (Crown copyright)

         

         

        I specifically refer you to subsection 4 of the above section where it states letters are to be sent by registered post. In your letter dated **th January you stated that the Letter of Assignment was sent to me by second class post. Your own acts render this Letter of Assignment invalid and as such, you had no lawful right to be collecting on the alleged debt. I put you to strict proof the letter was actually sent. By re-sending a Notice of Assignment by registered post does not make a previously unlawful notice, lawful.

         

         

        I refer you to your letter dated **th January 2009 where you state that the default notice was sent to me at (an address I lived at) dated **th May 2004 and also that Capital One did not appear to have received my letter telling them I had moved to( another address). I recently sent Capital One a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and received back various documents including the letter I sent them dated **th February 2004, stating (that address).(copy of letter enclosed) The letter also included a correspondence address (copy enclosed) which Capital One chose not to use apart from one letter dated **th March 2004 which I could not respond to as I had moved again

        Due to Capital One sending a default notice to an address they knew I wasn't at invalidates that notice and makes it unlawful.

         

         

        Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

        Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

         

         

         

        This repudiates your claims in paragraph one of your letter. Therefore you have no lawful reason to be processing my data and my previous demands that you remove and destroy ALL data about me stands. This request is made under section 10 of the Data Protection Act.

         

         

        I make this request pursuant to Civil Procedure Rules 31.16 (pre-action protocols) of you to supply me with a “true copy” of any agreement I signed as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. This request is NOT being made pursuant to sections 77/79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore an unsigned copy OR application form will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. You are legally obliged to comply with the Civil Procedure Rules.

         

        I have already complained to the Information commissioner and the Financial Ombudsman and I shall be forwarding copies of this letter to them and to Trading standards, The Office of Fair Trading and my MP.

         

         

        It is reasonable, under Civil Procedure rules(pre-action protocols), to give you twenty one days to respond to these requests. Should you choose not to comply, then I will make a copy of this letter to the court to demonstrate my attempts at resolution before commencing litigation.

         

         

         

         

        Yours Faithfully

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        how's it look so far. I'm going to keep researching over the weekend and then send it on Monday

         

        fox


Edited by silverfox1961
Abridged it slightly. easier to read???
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Its still a little long winded-particularly the last bits.

There are 2 paragraphs that you can address simply by saying that Under Civil Procedure Rules (pre action protocols),that you consider such requests to be appropriate.Should they choose not to comply,then you will be making a copy of this letter available to the Court,to demonstrate your early attempts at resolution before commencing litigation.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks for your input Martin.

I do have this nasty habit of using 100 words when 50 will do. I'll take on board your recommendations and see if I can abridge it slightly. I just want to make sure I get my message across.

 

fox

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I have edited post 263 above a little after listening to Martin. I hope it is a bit better now :-|

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You could always send the ODC condensed version.

 

Dear Cretins

 

NOA not properly served.

 

You shouldnt be processing my data

 

Youre stuffed

 

Pay Up

 

Yours etc

 

 

Ahh ODC,

I can always rely on you to be succinct and to the point :)

If only it was that easy.

It's so very hard trying to find words of one or two syllables that our friends in Leeds understand. :D

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Good afternoon to all and sundry and especially those that have helped me with the above letter.

 

Unless anyone else has any comments about the letter (post 263) I'm going to send it( with one or two minor adjustments) tomorrow.

 

I keep reading it and each time I do it boosts my confidence. Wierd?:rolleyes:

 

Thanks everyone

 

fox :D

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Morning everyone.

 

Letter sent half an hour ago. Lets see what they come back with.

 

On to other stuff.

In the covering letter from Cap1 re: my SAR they state that they are continuing to process my data. :confused: As they have sold my account to the Leeds losers, Cap1 shouldn't be doing more to the account.

 

They also sent me a statement summary which shows activity from 2000 to March 04 but then it restarts from April 2008 right up until the beginning of this month. :confused: What's going on here.

 

After reading the screenshots of my account it states returned mail on 29th May 05 yet the default notice that was sent to the wrong address is dated 28th May 05. I'm wondering if it is the default notice that was returned as they haven't included it in my bundle. if that is the case, was the DN improperly served by virtue of it being returned as well as being sent to the wrong address.

 

This also raises another question. If the default notice was dated 28th May 05 it would take a couple of days to get there so how could it be returned on the 29th. They haven't included any other letter which could relate to any date before that.

 

I think another letter to Ellie is in order.

 

I hate being confused:(

 

fox

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Hi Silver,

Maybe you need to hold off sending them anything that would give them a heads up.

Far better to refute any claims with real facts later on, Its not your job to prove them wrong.

 

Fair point.

 

I wasn't going to send Cap1 anything until Lowells got back to me (should have worded it better)

 

If the letter I sent Lowells has the desired effect then I won't need to do anything else.

 

fox

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Morning everyone.

 

Letter sent half an hour ago. Lets see what they come back with.

 

On to other stuff.

In the covering letter from Cap1 re: my SAR they state that they are continuing to process my data. :confused: As they have sold my account to the Leeds losers, Cap1 shouldn't be doing more to the account.

 

They also sent me a statement summary which shows activity from 2000 to March 04 but then it restarts from April 2008 right up until the beginning of this month. :confused: What's going on here.

 

After reading the screenshots of my account it states returned mail on 29th May 05 yet the default notice that was sent to the wrong address is dated 28th May 05. I'm wondering if it is the default notice that was returned as they haven't included it in my bundle. if that is the case, was the DN improperly served by virtue of it being returned as well as being sent to the wrong address.

 

This also raises another question. If the default notice was dated 28th May 05 it would take a couple of days to get there so how could it be returned on the 29th. They haven't included any other letter which could relate to any date before that.

 

I think another letter to Ellie is in order.

 

I hate being confused:(

 

fox

 

I would think that is a text book version of how to fail at serving a DN :)

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hi fiftypence,

I'm going to wait until I get a reply from Lowells (if at all) before I attack Cap1 again. I suspect they haven't sent me all the paperwork.

 

Mind you, reading the screenshots needed a magnifying glass as they put two on each page. Deliberately small?? still trying to understand all of the codes even with the booklet of terms supplied :confused:

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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