Capital One card debt (CCA)

[Old Cogger]

Well if you dont know.. how the heck are we supposed to, Lexis

 

So are you still missing section 23 blurry or otherwise:)

 

They are very busy this week, seems they are sending CCA non-copies to ALL AND SUNDRY INCLUDING THOSE WHO DID NOT SPECIFICALY ASK FOR THEM i.e.. application Forms.

 

They must be up to something?????????

[the_shadow]

They are very busy this week, seems they are sending CCA non-copies to ALL AND SUNDRY INCLUDING THOSE WHO DID NOT SPECIFICALY ASK FOR THEM i.e.. application Forms.

 

They must be up to something?????????

 

I wonder if its something to do with the reporting in the states of the quarter end results...

 

I see citibank have made a massive loss (shame ) Bank of America(MBNA) too ...... Dont think crapone have released there results yet, wonder if they are so bad theyre trying to improve final quarter by going after every debt possible and selling for whatever they can get AND writing off the tax.

 

S.

[lexis200]

wish i could tell you lex, but iv been on at them forever, never got copy of agreement, but my claims have moved past the infamous ellie, iv now majored on to James (dingding) Bell. so maybe you still got long way to go- keep at them and formulate claim against them asap-meantime they will maintain that they have supplied whats required under the act, and continue to pass it onto dca's for action.

as for trying to get agreements on lower payments - all these beggars are the same, they pay lip service to wanting to help, but always want it thro a third party. - im still trying to get agreements, all the card co's still keep adding interest and late fees, so as i said earlier, better get in a claim for what they have taken from you and then see whats left that you might owe them.

could be even better if you had ppi on card, - pb

 

I have to say (and don't lynch me for it people!) that I didn't have real issues with any of my creditors with getting reduced payments - that is aside from the fr*(*&(%%& Co-op. **lexis sticks two fingers up in a rather unladylike fashion at the co-op** - I've been paying cap1 the same amount for the past couple of years now, and aside from this ridiculous 'we don't support the plan you were on' rubbish which was plainly their way of lumping as many people as possible with defaults, that side of it has not been an issue.

 

This just seems to be complete luck of the draw. If your letters turn up on the desk of the person in the office holding the brain cell, things are dealt with in a sensible and fair manner. If you hit one of the low-life cretins who can't move from the script in front of them you're screwed.

 

Well if you dont know.. how the heck are we supposed to, Lexis

 

So are you still missing section 23 blurry or otherwise:)

 

Not any more:( In the first actual copy they sent (as opposed to blank t's and c's) the bit on the application that referred you to section 23 was clearly not originally section 23 - it looked like it had been numbered '3', and someone had gone in with a biro to add the '2', resulting in a bizarre blob. On this new and improved copy, the '23' is somehow very clear.

 

Now is it just me or does that seem a little odd considering it would have to have been copied from the same original??? They wouldn't possibly be doing anything naughty would they??

[the_shadow]

Not any more:( In the first actual copy they sent (as opposed to blank t's and c's) the bit on the application that referred you to section 23 was clearly not originally section 23 - it looked like it had been numbered '3', and someone had gone in with a biro to add the '2', resulting in a bizarre blob. On this new and improved copy, the '23' is somehow very clear.

 

Now is it just me or does that seem a little odd considering it would have to have been copied from the same original??? They wouldn't possibly be doing anything naughty would they??

 

I have a quote from their defence against my charges reclaim that my agreement from 2004 only exists in a scanned front page format, they destroyed the backs. I also have a blob as number 23

 

S.

[lexis200]

I like the sound of that shadow!! I think I need some questions answered by them pdq.

 

What's amusing is that had they not sent this latest application I would not have been even thinking about them:rolleyes:

[pawnbrokers]

well for my two pennyworth. this shows us all just how easy it is to move on bad debts that could possibly have no legal foundation.

the toothless oft caN DO NOTHING, these operators can supply toilet paper as proof of agreements, sign themselves off as complied, then sell on the bad non existant debt. our credit cards are a small window to just what these jokers are and have been doing on a much grander scale.

Still these are the professionals - ha:D

[citizenB]

They are sending some to Cabot and some to Lowells:)

[AA99]

We are all emailing the FOS tomorrow, aren't we

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/226293-capital-one-group-fos.html

[Desperate Daniella]

I think we should be writing. I don't trust people to act on emails.

 

DD

[citizenB]

We are all emailing the FOS tomorrow, aren't we

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/226293-capital-one-group-fos.html

 

Yep:D

[AA99]

I think we should be writing. I don't trust people to act on emails.

 

DD

 

 

Hi DD:D The idea was to action this 'en masse' but there is a massive postal strike organised for Thursday, so email 'en masse' on Monday and follow up with a posted hard copy that may or may not arrive in due course

[Desperate Daniella]

That's a very good idea.

 

Have you got the email address to hand? Otherwise I'll dig it out later.

 

DD

[AA99]

I put it in the Group Cap1 thread

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompeyfaith

Good Morning All can i just make a suggesion why not email your letters to the FOS and add a note stating u have done it this way because of the iminant postal strikes but a hard copy is in the post to you PF

 

Yes, good idea pf

 

mailto:complaint.info@fin ancial-ombudsman.org.uk

[AA99]

From the FOS website, how to get your complaint noticed

 

If you are putting things in writing, write "complaint" at the top of your letter. And make sure you include important details like your customer number or your policy or account number.

Keep things brief and to the point. Set out the facts clearly and in a logical order. Say why you're not happy and what you want the business to do about it. This will make it easier for them to look into the problem and sort things out.

Send copies of any relevant paperwork that you believe backs up your case. Keep a copy of any letters between you and the business. You may need to refer to them later.

Don't always expect immediate results – some complaints may take time to investigate properly and resolve.

[lexis200]

:oops:

 

Well I had another look at the forms they sent...and they are exactly the same - the 23 that I was thinking of is still a bizarre symbol then a 3, I was just looking on the wrong page:oops:

 

***lexis walks off whistling and pretending no-one saw her earlier nutty ramblings***

[lexis200]

Hi Chaps:)

 

It's been a while since I've posted on here, but I'll give a quick rundown of what is currently happening.

 

In January (or around then) this was passed to Fredricksons, despite Cap1 not having answered my questions regarding the agreement. I wrote to Freds with this letter

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am in receipt of your letters sent this month, and have noted times and recorded conversations on the phone, up to and including the 3 text messages sent to my home phone today in the space of 22 minutes.

 

As I told the gentleman I spoke to on the phone, I have serious issues with Capital One regarding the enforceability of the 'agreement' they have sent which have not been resolved, and so passing my information on to a debt collection agency is in direct contravention of OFT guidelines on debt collection (2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.).

 

In addition, Capital One have not at any point informed me of your involvement, so obviously I have no intention of paying you anything, not least because my standing order to Capital One is still active and they have not requested I cease paying it.

 

Please note I do not talk about financial matters over the phone and will not entertain further calls. My phone line is private and you may not use it. Do not phone or text again.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

If you choose to ignore this, please be aware I charge £50 for the use of my footpath by uninvited callers, and after police have removed anyone from your company or any company you claim to represent, I will invoice you accordingly.

 

About 2 1/2 weeks ago I had a letter from Freds regarding my 'recent' communication with them. About 10 days after that I had a postcard (in an envelope) stating that they had run a trace check (right, coz they use PI's when they already know where you live) that confirmed I lived where I said I did, and if they did not hear from me they'd look at instigating proceedings. I have written this in response which is going out today.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am in receipt of your letter received recently regarding my 'recent' communication to you. To my knowledge my last letter was received by you on the 29th January 2010 so I feel I must ask exactly how that can be classed as recent.

 

In the letter you received 6 months ago, you were informed of several things, none of which have changed. If you care to read it you will understand I have absolutely no intention of dealing with you. You have been made aware of the issues I have with Capital One and as such you are now in direct contravention of the OFT guidelines on debt collection.

 

In addition to this, your most recent letter threatening legal action is unwarranted. Capital One are still avoiding answering my straightforward questions regarding the highly dubious application form that they have sent on several occasions. If you decide to go ahead and issue proceedings (which incidentally as you are not the owners of the supposed debt you are not at liberty to do) I will of course be issuing you and Capital One with a request under the Civil Procedure Rules requiring sight of documents you would be relying on in court, and I will be demanding a response to the question that Capital One have so far been at great pains to avoid answering. I will also be questioning why you are threatening court action given that I am still making goodwill payments according to the payment plan set up with Capital One, and which are still being taken by them. Unfortunately it appears from your threatening postcard that this is a fact you are unaware of – perhaps as I have already suggested, a little background checking might be in order here.

 

In light of the above, and given that you have no actual basis for legal action, any further letters received from you will be noted and filed but not responded to. If you ignore this please not I will be issuing an admin charge of £10 for each letter I receive.

 

I would also like to re-iterate that both you and Capital One have been informed that you are not to use my phone line, so do not send further text messages and do not phone again. I told you not to do this back in January but clearly you have now decided to ignore that instruction. My phone line utilises a Truecall system. If you phone be aware you will not get through as the unit simply tells your agents their call is not wanted and hangs up, but that every call and text you make is recorded by the unit and I will have no hesitation in using the data I collect in formal complaints regarding your company.

 

With that in mind, you may wish to have a chat with the lady I did speak to on the 28th July 2010 at 12.46 before 'zapping' your number, as I have recorded her talking to me about details on the account after I refused to go through security. Perhaps a little basic training for your staff would be in order as certainly she seemed unaware/unconcerned about breaking Data Protection laws. Equally she was not worried about any level of professionalism or common courtesy when speaking to me as she was initially simply bored, uninterested and poorly informed, but she then decided to step it up to plain rude when she hung up on me, which obviously I also have recorded.

 

I suggest you return this account to Capital One so that they can answer the many questions and complaints that they have so far avoided.

 

I trust this makes my position very clear.

 

Today though I've got a letter through from Bryan Carter. I've heard the name but not had dealings with them before. They state

 

We write with regard to this outstanding debt.

 

Payment must be made in full within the next fourteen days failing which we will recommend to our client that proceedings be issue without further notice.

 

Should proceedings be issued, additional charges will be added to the existing balance as shown below.

 

If you dispute liability for this debt please state your reasons in writing and supply us with documents in support of your defence to any claim.

 

Before the account is referred to us to litigate you still have an opportunity to contact Fredrickson with your payment proposals. In order to avoid further action you should telephone them immediately on xxx.

 

This is a serious matter and you may wish to seek independent legal advice.

 

Should I be concerned about this or is this a standard rent-a-sol outfit?

 

My initial reaction is to inform them that I believe the agreement is a Blue Peter job, something which I have on many occasions bought up with Cap1, including asking them if I could view it, only to be ignored or fobbed off, and that until that question is answered the account is in dispute and my formal complaint has not been addressed.

 

Basically the situation as it stands is that Cap1 were, and still are being paid the amount I was paying on the payment plan agreed to about 3 years ago. After I started getting argumentative about the agreement, they passed me onto Freds and the only written contact I've had with them up until now (from either side) has been the letter sent in Jan. Aside from the two letters sent in the last couple of weeks they've not contacted me by mail as requested, although they've tried a few times by phone in the last couple of weeks (the only one I picked up entailed me not going through security but the 'lady' I spoke to telling me about the account anyway).

 

So, Cap1 have sent what appears to be a very very dubious agreement which they will not confirm is two sides of the same original document, I have many times questioned the legitimacy of this agreement, even saying I'll go and view it at their offices at my expense, they've ignored these requests and questions. They've also sent one of their '28 day' DNs and terminated off the back of it (not likely to do me much/any good I know, but technically it's a flawed DN). Despite not having missed a single payment to Cap1, and despite Cap1 not querying it still going to them rather than Freds, Freds say I've not paid or made any attempts to pay. Having not contacted me for 6 months, Freds have in the space of 2 1/2 weeks gone from 'please contact us' to litigation threats (which incidentally I thought had to come from the owner of the debt??). Have they, or Bryan Carter got a leg to stand on here? If they have, how impressed would the courts be if they continue given that I have always replied to letters and have not missed any payments in the last 3 odd years?

 

Sorry for the mammoth post - when I get a new face on the scene I like to work out whether I should be worrying about it or not!

[citizenB]

Hi Lexis, BC has started litigation against quite a few peeps at the moment.. so I sugggest you take it seriously. Although he has been known to back down fairly swiftly at the first sign of someone knowing what they are doing.

 

Litigation can be started by the solicitors acting on behalf of the owner of the account, be that the original creditor or if it has been assigned, the assignee.

 

Do BC say they are acting on behalf of Capital One ?

 

Right, just reread the post above and see that they are acting on behalf of Fredericksons.

 

Does this mean the account has been assigned and were you advised of this. Any assignment should have been sent to you via registered post (now recorced delivery). It has to be accurate in both sum and dates.

 

Strange though that you have continued to pay Capital One and they have said nothing, dont you think ?

 

I would say that any Judge would not look kindly on BC if this does go to litigation.

Edited August 6, 2010 by citizenB

[lexis200]

Hi CB, thanks for getting back to me.

 

Well that's a bit of a bummer. Yes, it is on behalf of Cap1, but I have to contact Freds??

 

So should I get a letter out to them regarding the agreement being a very dubious one, the payments having been made and Cap1 refusing to be reasonable in answering my question re. the agreement?

 

Thanks x

[citizenB]

Hi Lexis,

 

I think what you need to know is who actually owns the account. If the account has NOT been assigned then Fredericksons cannot take court action in their own name. The claimant would be Capital One.

 

But yes, I would respond to Carter saying that Capital One are well aware of the dispute, you have maintained payments to Capital One despite the account being in dispute.

 

I would also point them in the direction of the OFT censure of Mackenzie Hall, even enclose a copy of it for them. It specifically states what the OFT consider to be a dispute

 

I would address your letter to BC and copy it to Capital One.. as far as you are concerned.. Fredericksons doesnt exist.

[lexis200]

That's great CB, thanks so much.

 

I'll get onto it over the weekend and send something out on Monday. If it all goes pear shaped I'll have to have a re-think as I'm 99% sure the stress of court would end with me in hospital again (happens every time I get stressed as I have basically no immune system, when I get run down I get very ill). Really don't want to go down that road...

[pawnbrokers]

lex, keep strong, mostly this is smoke and mirrors, but you must always keep the right side of the legalities - i cannot see how anyone who is being paid something while an account is in dispute could put it into court, the outcome would be pointless as the court would laugh and at worse award amounts of even less than yu may be paying now -

my feeling is the the current breed of letters from DCA's is to try to utilise a ruling thats not about lots of cases, by pretending it is - so have faith im sure you will find they will huff n puff, but with the help you have been given - they will never blow your house down - good luck - pb

[lexis200]

Thanks pawnbrokers:)

 

I'm sure it'll work out in the end, but it's the getting there that's the pain in my bum:rolleyes: I've not been scuppered by any of the creditors yet though so here's hoping this doesn't break my streak!

[citizenB]

Lexis, whilst there are many Bryan Carter threads on the forum.. this one will show how silly the man is. He is now asking for more time to get paperwork which he should have had in order to start the claim in the first place... sigh...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?269811-Bryan-Carter-advice-needed-asap-please/page5

[pawnbrokers]

Lexis, whilst there are many Bryan Carter threads on the forum.. this one will show how silly the man is. He is now asking for more time to get paperwork which he should have had in order to start the claim in the first place... sigh...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?269811-Bryan-Carter-advice-needed-asap-please/page5

 

This really only shows how little regard the DCA's have when dealing with people. Im certain that the percentages of success to failure rates, brought about by this type of action is prooving too good for the DCA's to worry about the few who know a bit more, so onwards and forever upwards lex - PB

[AA99]

Hi Lexis:) Still subbing;)

 

You have been well-advised on here naturally about these buffoons. I have also a mountain of DCA letters and to be honest do not know who 'owns' most of my original accounts:confused: I have now been battling with them all for 2 years in September so the filing is enormous:p However, I have left most of my accounts with my final word of either not having an enforceable CCA or my original hardship offer of an affordable repayment amount. They chose to refuse it and to be honest, some of the balances were so small, they would have been paid off by now.

 

There were a couple who accepted £20 p.m. then rejected £1 p.m. so stopped paying. Now they're all billing me for their charges every month or else I haven't had from anyone:?

 

Even in court, I can only offer blood, sweat or tears. That's a worrying scenario but am not going to let it make either of us physically and mentally ill anymore, so you also try not to worry too much. You have friends here;)