Gazza112 Vs Halifax Credit Card

[Gazza112]

Did you at any time make a formal CCA request together with the statutory fee of £1.00??

 

Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for looking at my post, yes i sent them a formal CCA request with a statutory £1.00 fee.

The replied sending me a copy off the application form plus made up terms and conditions from Bank of Scotland.

 

Gaz

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

So What you have is a ''reconstituted'' agreement I think, this app form is it signed and dated?

For a recon there must be the following details, your name and address at the inception of the

account, ditto for the creditor.

The Ts&Cs at the inception any amendments and the Ts&Cs at the closure of the account.

Can you post up a redacted copy of the app form pls.

[Dotty50]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159662-Gazza112-Vs-Halifax-Credit-Card&p=1801614&viewfull=1#post1801614

 

It's here brig and apparently it is as bad as it looks!

[ncm-000]

Your user name here is not known to them is it, as long as you don't leave account numbers

names and other personal identifiers visible there is not likely to be a problem.

Giving the name of DCAs and Creditors will help you get you the correct advice from those

experienced in dealing with particular organisations.

 

This does not take into account that I am paranoid, I much prefer to keep the other accounts under wraps and stick to general advice.

 

I am sure you will have noticed I do ask rather a lot of generic questions rather than specific ones to each problem.

 

I do not think the DCAs are stupid at all. I think they hold the punters in utter contempt and are quite happy to break all the rules knowing that their chances of anything other than a slapped wrist are minute.

Should they get a real slap then thy shrug their shoulders and carry on regardless. For every upheld complaint I guess there are 1000's of confused punters paying up and lining their pockets.

[Dotty50]

You are right to be wary ncm, there was a case a while ago and I think it was Restons who turned up to court with copies of the caggers thread!

 

But I agree with Brig that asking general questions won't necessarily work for you because no one will know who you are dealing with and may give you duff information. Some DCA's can be more aggressive but there are others that will run away if you show any sign of knowing your stuff!

 

I would be surprised if the DCA's trawl the forums initially but may look at new cases that go into the legal forum when a claim has been issued so that is the time to be wary and not give too much info regarding the amount of the claim, which may make it instantly recognisable.

[dx100uk]

and they LOST!

 

dx

[Dotty50]

Hi DX

 

Lost or won, my point was that they DO read the forums, which was what ncm was concerned about.

 

But in order to get the best advice, we do need to name and shame.

[dx100uk]

yes the real point......................

 

dx

[Gazza112]

So What you have is a ''reconstituted'' agreement I think, this app form is it signed and dated?

For a recon there must be the following details, your name and address at the inception of the

account, ditto for the creditor.

The Ts&Cs at the inception any amendments and the Ts&Cs at the closure of the account.

Can you post up a redacted copy of the app form pls.

 

Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Gaz,

 

They are so dopey they think they can swap BoS agreements, forms, etc., with Halifax ones and we won't notice. I once asked for my BoS agreement and they sent a Halifax application form.

 

Obviously they just can't get the staff these days ......

 

DDx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

This is definitely wrong a Formal Complaint to The Data Controller now is the way to go, they cannot manipulate data in this way.

[Gazza112]

Hi Brigadier

 

Thanks for looking at this for me, is there a template letter i could use so i can send to the data controller.

I was also going to send the DCA a letter telling them that they have failed to produce the information that i originally asked for i.e copy of my agreement.

 

Gaz

[Gazza112]

Hi desperate Daneiella

 

Yes, they do seem a bit dopey as i cant see how they can use an application with another account number trying to say that this is your agreement and send me a made up agreement with another company and account number. lol.

 

Gaz

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'll put a letter together for you in a while Gaz.

[Desperate Daniella]

I got a letter from another outfit today telling me they had replied to my letter three months before I actually sent it.

[Gazza112]

Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for helping me in this matter.

I was going to send the DCA this letter.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form plus another companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending this information out is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

What do you think, or should i stay silent in replying to there letter.

 

Gaz

[ncm-000]

Question for the 'big guns'

 

The above looks detailed and impressive.

 

But, is it up to 'Gaz' to tell the DCA where the problems are, or should he simply tell them that what they have sent is unacceptable as there are omissions from the statutory requirements and let the DCA sort out the problems.

 

I.e. is it up to the alleged debtor to do the DCAs work for them?

[Bazooka Boo]

I.e. is it up to the alleged debtor to do the DCAs work for them?

 

No NEVER!

 

This includes answering any of their 'phishing' letters that claim that if you don't contact them they will just 'assume' you are the person they are looking for and will commence with their powerless harassment strategy.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

 

Ok Gazza,

 

To The Data Controller

HBOS

 

Formal Complaint.

Ref: use theirs.

 

Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to my recent request made for information under sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, having reviewed the documents supplied I have concluded that the documents DO NOT Satisfy my Lawful Request under the Act.

 

If the documents are intended to represent a ''reconstituted agreement'' they fail immediately as they are Bank of Scotland ''terms and conditions'' not those of Halifax that owned the account in question, therefore the agreement is rejected and remains in dispute.

 

I am sure the bank is fully aware as to what MUST be included in a document or documents to form ''reconstituted agreement, so I will not waste further time in explaining this.

 

There is a further point also that invalidates the ''reconstituted agreement'' and that is the agreement being pursued for payment is number xxxxxxxx where as the ''application'' form supplied as being relevant to this account is numbered xxxxxxxxxx.

 

For clarification the data supplied by HBOS is rejected as flawed at best and as a work of fiction intended to deceive at worst, therefore ALL liability for this aaccount is denied.

 

This letter is sent by RM recorded/signed for delivery and its receipt WILL be checked.

 

get that away on Monday Gazza.

[Gazza112]

Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for your time in helping me with this matter, the letter looks great to send them.

I'll get it in the post first thing tomorrow.

 

Gaz

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for your time in helping me with this matter, the letter looks great to send them.

I'll get it in the post first thing tomorrow.

 

Gaz

 

You're welcome Gaz please let me know the result!

[Gazza112]

Hi All

 

Just received a reply from the letter Brigadier kindly sorted out for me.

It's just a standard letter i think they send out for delaying tack ticks that they do.

 

 

Gaz

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Gaz, yep standard letter, the have up to 56 days to produce a response.

[Gazza112]

Hi All

 

Just an update on this thread.

Received a letter from 1st Credit today, i think there a bit annoyed in receiving the letter i sent them a couple off weeks back.

Here's the letter i received today.

 

 

 

Gaz

[Bazooka Boo]

This has been dragging on for nearly five years now, if they had anything then they would have taken action sooner.