Carter and split claim for shop direct 'debt'

[KFC]

Hello, can any one help ?

My partner, received a letter Dated 21 Apr 2008 from Bryan Carter saying - You have failed to make repayments

to the above account and will now issue litigation proceedings in the county court. You will recieve the claim form in the next 48 hours direct from the court.

Next she received claim form from the Northampton court, Issue Date 21 Apr 2008.

She was'nt exactly sure what the debt was for, as she has a few, and so sent the form back to them, without checking, making an offer to pay.

The total outstanding balance £609-66

The total amount claimed £ 239

Why make only a partial claim ? Is this right ?

When this is paid will they claim a bit more, each time and so on untill the outstanding balance is paid ?

How many lots of Solicitor's fee etc will ths be ?

I feel like they are just making fools out of us, trying to make as much money out of us as possible !

The allowed time to respond is 14 days after the day of service - the day of service is taken as 5 days after the issue date.

Issue date - 21 Apr 2008

Day of service - 26 Apr 2008

14 days of service - 10 May 2008

If I am correct, then she had untill the 10 May 2008 for Bryan Carter's to be in receipt of this form.

She sent it by Special Delivery on 8 May 2008, they received it on 9 May 2008, we checked ! Post office receipt Barcode- on the Post Office web site and have kept the receipt very safe.

So thinking everything ok ! - Not ! :o

Next, she gets a letter Dated 13 May 2008 form Bryan Carter entitled COUNTY COURT JUDGEMENT, saying they have applied for a county court judgement to be entered against you in respect of the above account etc.

Also, a Judgement for Claimant from the Northampton Court- Dated 13 May 2008 from the Northampton County Court, saying - you have Not Replied to the claim form, (which we did in the allotted time) asking for £50 per month, first payment before 12 june 2008, which we can't afford.

Then, Puzzled, we get another letter from Bryan Carter Dated 14 May 2008 saying they are willing to accept installments of £4-50 per month, (our original offer) first payment must be before 13 June2008, with no mention of the CCJ !

Seems a Bit Strange ? Why twice ?

So what does this mean ? Do we have to pay two amounts to Bryan Carter's ? This is MAD !

Is there four things here,

that they have done very wrongly ?

We have ALL relavent paperwork as proof !

and can post it on this web site.

What should we do next ?

request cca !

What can we do now ?

Any help, much appreciated, thanx

Edited June 4, 2008 by KFC
mistakes

[havinastella]

first thing, Put Bryan Carter into search.

 

Read all the threads about this parasite and when they get up, the people in the know will advise you.

 

Best of luck

 

Jogs

[rogermeard]

They are famous for flouting the regs. they have done the exact same thing to me. See my link..........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/137702-updated-phoenix-nightmare-carters.html?highlight=bryan+carter

[nicklea]

KFC,

 

I know it's a bit late saying this now, but you needed to return the court form to the court not to Bryan Carter.

 

As the previous two posters have said, Bryan Carter are notorious here for doing things wrong and they seem to run away if a case is defended.

 

You need to apply to have the CCJ set aside. They have got this CCJ by default as the court never received your defence. There are plenty of examples here of people who have got CCJs set aside in this situation.

 

So, don't worry (too much!) this can be dealt with. Have a look around the site for threads on setting aside a CCJ and any posts by a poster called pt2537.

 

It would be really helpful if you still have a copy of the blue court form with the particulars of claim (this is the bit that says something like The Claimant claims £xxx because...). It is really important to know what this actually said.

 

Once you've done that then people can give you very specific advice on exactly what to do and how to word your application to the court.

 

Hope this helps

[Dispirited]

Eek - did you send the Court form to BC instead of the court?

 

Firstly, don't pay him anything or offer to pay anything.

 

As for his claim, he is going against County Court regulations by going for his costs only.

 

It is unlawful under section 35 County Courts Act 1984 to split one claim into smaller claims.

 

Also, he is in breach of the Solicitors' code by going for his fees.

 

Have a look at my thread, I'm dealing with BC, also read rogermeard's:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/137702-updated-phoenix-nightmare-carters.html

 

And as already suggested, use the search facility for Bryan Carter - you'll find many more similar cases. The more reading you do on here, the more knowledge you'll gain. Knowledge is power.

[KFC]

Thanks to everyone for your replies, they have been a great help, it's good to know that I'm not alone, I feel alot more confident now and that it's worth fighting them. Without the help, support, and the information on this web site, I just wish that I had seen it a month ago, and I might be in a better position now.

 

 

I think that I am best applying to get the judgement set aside.

 

Can this be done on the grounds that Bryan Carter has split the claim, or the fact they have mislead us.

 

Also we believe they don't have the relavant paperwork and credit agreement etc, so should we formally request cca ?

 

Copies of Bryan Carter's letters etc are attatched :

bc1 first letter.pdf

bc2 Claim Form.pdf

bc3 ccj letter.pdf

bc4 ccj.pdf

bc5 offer letter.pdf

Edited June 4, 2008 by KFC
removed info from attachments

[KFC]

I have just noticed something else on the Claim form in the particulars of Claim it says £522.66(the debt) but then, in Bryan Carter's letters, the balance on the letter dated 21 Apr 2008 is £587.66, a rise of £65, on their next letter it has gone up £22 to £609.66 !

Where does this amount come from, are they just awarding themselves what they like, when they like ?

 

Also, the total amount on the claim form is £239.00, the total for claimant on the Judgement is £261.00, should'nt these amounts be the same, as it is the total being claimed, that's another £22 ! seems to be a pattern here !

 

So am I right in thinking, that is £109 on top of his Solicitor's costs of £50 on the claim form.

 

Also the Particulars of the Claim on the Claim Form seem a bit strange !

 

UNBELIEVABLE !

 

Also I are 99% sure that this debt is for a catalogue, that she has NOT signed a Credit Agreement !

 

Does this help my case against them ?

[drob]

Yes, you need to apply to have this Judgement set aside

 

Follow this link for Information on having a judgement set aside

 

http://www.bdl.org.uk/images/12_how_...unty_court.pdf

 

If after you have read the above information you can find the appropiate court form by following the link.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n244_0400.pdf

[KFC]

Hi to everyone,

 

Been busy tryin to get my head round all this stuff.... there's so much to read.... gettin a handle on how the system works now... I think !

 

My head hurts !

[KFC]

Thanks Drob,

 

Can I just print off a copy and send it to the court, or should I get one from the court ?

 

How do I pay the Fee, £75 is'nt it, when is it payable ?

[nicklea]

Yes you can just print it off.

 

Send a cheque with the form. You can also claim exemption if you are on benefits or a very low wage - see form ex160a on the hmcs website

[KFC]

Ok thanks nicklea,

 

So to set aside the ccj, I have to fill out form n244.

 

 

Do I fill this part out ?

 

Ques (1) Do I tick at a hearing ?

Ques (2) Time estimate ?

 

 

or just fill out part A, B and C ?

 

 

How should I defend,

 

I was gonna put :- Debt details not recognized, BC have very vague details of debt. (they dont have any cca, original account number etc)

 

Also on Claim form, the Claimant is Cyclone, who appears to be a non-existent DCA, which is part of Bryan Carters, same registered office as Fredricksons (7/10 Chandos Street, London).

 

Do Cyclone have a valid Consumer Credit licence ?

 

We have recorded calls to BC, with them refusing to tell us who Cyclone is, we asked how could they be acting on their behalf if they dont know, and how can you not know as you have them on claim form ?

 

Should I cca them as well ?

Edited June 4, 2008 by KFC
need to remove personal info included by mistake

[KFC]

 

Cyclone asset management Ltd does NOT have a Credit Licience !

 

 

Their licence expired Dec 2006 !

 

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974, states that they must have a licence.

 

 

Does this mean... that anyone who has had any dealings with them after this date could also use this as a defence against the claim, since it is a Criminal offence ?

 

 

This is a quote from the Office of Fair Trading :-

 

 

Unlicenced trading is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine, imprisonment or both. You must not trade before your licence is issued, or carry out activities under a category ot does not cover.

 

Cyclone is not listed in any telephone listings.

 

 

So who are we going to send to Prison then, Bryan Carter ? Ha Ha !

 

 

 

In various Recorded calls to Bryan Carter's, they refuse to say who Cyclone is, even though it is the Claimant on the Court Claim form !

 

 

 

We asked for an address... Carter's said... I don't know who they are !

 

 

We then asked them, how can you be acting on their behalf if you don't know who they are,... no answer !..... they then said... in terms of Cyclone, don't worry about that, it's in terms of Choice Catalogue, we need to get payment on this account.

 

Still asking them about Cyclone,... Bryan Carter's said... we have the account now...You can't Contact them for Anything !... you have to go through us.

 

 

We then asked, is Cyclone part of Bryan Carter's or Crellins group of companies ?... answer... no, we are Bryan Carter's... a Solicitors.

 

 

 

:DThat seemed to get them going a bit ! Ha Ha !

 

 

 

Is'nt this just plain Fraud ?

 

Are'nt they Obtaining Money by Deception ?

 

Can Criminal Charges be brought against them ?

 

 

Anyway, we sent an email with all proof to The Office of Fair Trading (OFT)... Hope Prosecution Follows !

 

 

Fat Chance.... me thinks ! ... they are too slippery for that !

 

 

 

 

All Connected !

 

 

Bryan Carter's = Fredricksons International = Cyclone = any others ?

 

 

Cyclone Asset Management Ltd - registered office 7/10 Chandos St, London

 

Fredricksons International Ltd - registered office 7/110 Chandos St, London

 

Bryan Carter & Co - Address Same as Fredricksons International Ltd, Weybridge, Surrey.

[KFC]

Hi Everyone ! Seems like everyone's on holiday !

 

 

I'm just about to fill out forn N244 to have CCJ set aside.

 

 

Is this how to fill it out ??

 

 

Fill top right box, Claim No. In the Northampton Court ??

 

 

Part A (1) - Your Full Name.

Part A (2) - CCJ be Set Aside.

Part A (3) - because :-

 

(1) I do not acknowledge or recognise the debt to the claimant.

 

(2)The claimant did not send any correspondence or serve a Default notice before filing claim number XXXXXXXX.

 

(3)The claimant (Cyclone Asset Management Ltd) does not Possess a Credit Licence.

 

(4)The Particulars of Claim are vague and insuffient.

 

(5)I was mislead by Bryan Carter & Co, the Claimants Solicitors.

 

Tick part B..... evidence in part C in support of my application.

SIGN in the signiture box.

Fill out Address

 

 

PART C

No correspondence from Cyclone has ever been delivered to me whatsoever prior to litigation proceedings being issued, and I put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

No Credit Agreement exists between me and the claimant or has ever existed, and I put the claimant to strict proof thereof. In the absence of a signed agreement containing the prescribed terms in schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, the Court shall not make an Enforcement Order by virtue of sec.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act. 1974.

 

It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and I put the claimant to strict proof that the said document was ever delivered to me. In the absence of a Default Notice, the claimant had no right to bring claim number XXXXXXXX by virtue of sec. 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. 1974.

 

No letter of assignment or letter before action was sent to me, contrary to Civil Proceedure Rules.

 

The claimant's Consumer Credit Licence expired December 2006, a criminal offence.

The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to the alleged debt.

 

I could not defend myself, because Bryan Carter Solicitors & Co, withheld information and have deliberately mislead me, they would not explain who Cyclone Asset Management Ltd where, they refused to give their address or any contact details. I have trancripts and recorded telephone calls to Bryan Carter's as evidence to prove this complete with times and dates etc.

 

Also they have split the claim, (see Particulars of Claim XXXXXXXX), which is not allowed under sec. 35 County Corts Act. 1984, Division of causes of Action. It is unlawful to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing about two of more actions in one or more of the County Courts.

 

On this basis, I respectfully request that the Judgement given claim number XXXXXXXX, be Set Aside.

 

Is this ok ??

 

Need to send off asap, any help appreciated, thanks.

Edited September 12, 2008 by KFC
removal of personal info and seperate onto paragraphs

[drowning in debt]

Hi!

Sorry can't help with your set aside application questions, but it would be a good idea to edit your post so you didn't show claim number.

 

Hope you get the answers you need soon.

[KFC]

bump

[Dispirited]

Bump

[nicklea]

It may be worth saying at the top that you did respond with a defence but, because you were not aware of the correct procedures you sent the defence to the Claimant instead of the court.

 

 

It may also be better to space out the paragraphs - this makes it easier to read.

 

Apart from that, seems fine

[KFC]

Already sent it off... I got a reply from Northampton Court saying :-

 

:grin:It Transfered to XXXXXX Court to deal with the defendants application to set aside judgement.

 

That Court will send you and other parties notice of the time and place of hearing.

 

Waiting for Local Court to reply now.... for what happens next.

 

 

 

I want to Counterclaim them, can I just send details and fee to local court and just get it attatched to application ?

 

Or is it too late. can it be done seperately afterwards ?

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think they will turn up to hearing... but if they do, how they gonna explain that Cyclone, the claimant (who is connected to Bryan Carters) has got NO Credit License !

 

A criminal offfence !

 

Also I got various telephone recordings of them saying they dont know who the claimant is... and refusing to give any contact details etc....

 

They also say "You can't contact them for anything... you have to deal through us !"

 

- they also say they have purchased it.. is that Allowed for a Solicitor to Purchase a debt...

 

Surely they admitting they are acting as a Debt Collectors ?

 

Is it best to send it and all relevant information to local trading standards ? Solicitors regulators etc... anyone else ???

 

 

:grin:

[NailPost]

These are important actions you are taking so take it nice and slow. Setting the ccj aside is the first step. You will probably find that to be relatively easy because Carters are notorious for running away when someone stands up for themselves. You would be justified in asking the court to order Carters to pay your costs.

 

Once that has been achieved you can go after Carter big time for the mess they have caused. You must realise that although they claim to be solicitors they are not. They are a branch of a firm of solicitors called Crellins Carter but there are no solicitors based at the deHavilland Drive address - have you noticed their hours of business 8am-8pm and open at weekends. Unheard of in solicitorland! They are directly connected to Fredrickson International who are of course debt collectors. Crellins Carter would claim they are unaware of what is being said and done in their name but they trouser fees from FI for allowing the use of the letterhead which makes them just as liable for the actions of their "clients"

 

When you start making these they will be to several dfifferent agencies including the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Services Ombudsman and the Solicitors Regulation Authority. You could even throw in the Information Commissioner in for good measure if the cretins have lodged negative information on your credit files.

 

You may find their actions less than nothing but if no one complains then nothing will ever be done about these parasites.

 

Keep in touch -there's plenty of good help on these boards

Edited June 19, 2008 by NailPost
typo

[pt2537]

good advice Nailpost,

 

id add to that, throw a complaint to you MP, and the ministry of justice too in fact i would complain to everyone who will listen

 

the Law society would also be on my list

 

with regards to setting aside the judgment, you are correct that the splitting the cause of action is relevent, it is unlawful and contrary to s35 County Courts Act 1984. you need to show that you have a reasonable prospect of defending the claim for the court to consider setting the judgment aside, and from what i can see you do have that here

 

[KFC]

Just an update !

 

Court Hearing transfered to XXXXXXXXX County Court on 9 Sept 2008.

 

See what happens... post on here straight afterwards.

[tifo]

The total outstanding balance £609-66

The total amount claimed £ 239

 

Why make only a partial claim ? Is this right ?

When this is paid will they claim a bit more, each time and so on untill the outstanding balance is paid

 

County Courts Act s.35 ..

 

35 Division of causes of action

 

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.

 

 

So, you could pay the amount they ask and they wouldn't be able to make any further claims for that account. Especially useful when the debt amount is large and Bryan Carter (or anyone else) issue a claim for their costs only of around £250.

[KFC]

JUDGEMENT SET ASIDE !!!

 

 

First step over !

 

 

Still a total novice at this, and would'nt have got this far without the help from this site , - THANK YOU ALL !

 

 

My partner and I both went to court, she was being sick, with nerves.

So I gave the Court Usher a note when we reported in, asking if she could be accompanied in the hearing. - Note as follows,

 

 

Respectful Request

 

 

Claim Number XXXXXX on XX September 2008 at XX.30 am

 

 

Would it be possible for Miss XXXX XXXX, to be accompanied in the hearing ?

 

She is recovering from thyrotoxycosis, a Hyper Active Thyroid.

 

Applicable symptoms include : Nervous/Emotional Panic/Anxiety Attacks Poor Concentration Palpitations/Heart Problems Unsteady/Jittery etc.

 

Attached was Bupa web site symptom info and a prescription copy to back it up.

 

 

 

This worked and we both went in !

 

 

 

The judge, she was very unemotional, like a robot, acting as if she was above everyone/everything, just as you'd expect !

 

She read out the particulars of the claim and asked how do you answer, we said that it was nonsense and denied the claims.

 

She was'nt interested in the facts that, they had sent no correspondence provious to the claim, or no default notice being served, no letter before action, Letter of assignment, the split claim and that the claimant has no credit licence, etc.

 

 

All she seemed bothered about, was the Credit Agreement.

 

 

After a few questions, like why have you waited until now, she said, ok I will grant this to be set aside.

 

 

Phew !

 

 

She then asked, how long will it take you to make/submit a proper defence ?

 

 

Before we could really say anything, she said, "normally 14 days is allowed" , so we agreed.

 

 

Later that afternoon, I thought it best to send Carters a CPR information request, I know it should have been done before !

 

 

Do we get any comfirmation from the court ?

 

 

So what happens next ?

[The GodMother]

u will recieve a letter from the courts and that will tell u everything.

 

U then need to submitt a defence or even skeleton defence based on the evidence.