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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Car damaged on Eurotunnel


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Hi

 

I recently had a day trip to France using Eurotunnel. When I got on the train, I was directed to park very close to the carriage doors. On the outward leg, at disembarking time, the doors opened and hit my bumper, preventing the door from opening fully. There was some damage to the painted bumper.

 

I contacted their customer services department a day later to report the event and to ask for their comment. The response was that I did not report it at the time and therefore they could not accept any claim, as per their terms and conditions (not strictly true).

 

There was nobody around at the time, there was a man directing traffic at the very end of the train, but as I slowed down to mention the door, he simply waved with more vigour. Other than use the emergency call button I do not believe there was anything I could do. There was no further opportunity to contact a Eurotunnel staff member, not even a building after leaving the train.

 

Are they correct? Does anyone have any advice?

 

Del

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Yes they are correct - as you didn't inform them at the time, there is no proof how the damage was caused. If you reported it at the time they would have been able to inspect the damage.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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There was absolutely nothing stopping you from pulling out of the queue, stopping the car and reporting it there and then, the fact that the guy was waving you on makes no difference, he would have had to deal with you if you had stopped. If you had had a car crash, would you move on because the cars behind you are honking? Of course not.

 

I agree with Barracad, if you didn't report it at the time, there is nothing you can do.

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Others appear to be taking the view that because you failed to act at the time you won't be believed & whilst it's unfortunate that you didn't or weren't able to report the damage at the time you can still submit a claim to Euro-tunnel.

 

They are not idiots & if you explain your very valid reasons they will know if what you say is correct about not being allowed to stop & will consider your claim accordingly.

 

Failing that they may even decide to compensate you just on the basis of the your nuisance factor, or they may not. You have little to lose other than some time & trouble

 

I suspect their reaction will to some extent be dependant on the cost of repair so it's important to get more than 1 estimate which must be from reputable & I suggest well known, garage. Also don't forget to take photo's of the damage

 

I should go for it but I would just add one word of caution. - I have no doubt your story about how the damage occured is true, but if it is not then you could be accused of fraud under the new 2006 Fraud Act

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Well, of course, he can! There is no law stopping him, obviously. However, I would rate his chances at strictly 0 to get anywhere. Fact is, OP could have stopped and didn't, and Eurotunnel's first response clearly shows that they will not consider it on good will alone, so I see little benefit in trying again, IMO it would be a waste of time and energy.

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BW rather than get into a peeing contest I did try to PM you but found you appear to only accept Skype & I don't have a clue how to use that, not having it myself - & being a computer dummy

 

To reiterate if the OP is to be believed then they do have a valid claim & having driven off Euro trains myself I have to agree with the OP that it's impossible to stop unless you want to hold up traffic & have everybody behind you going nuts.

 

So with the greatest of respect BW you dismissed the OP's claim rather out of hand & I was giving him advice based on the circumstances as the OP explained them.

 

I would also mention that whilst more difficult there are thousands of belated damage claims settled every year so I don't agree that it's necessarily a waste of time

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JC, it's not a peeing contest at all and funnily enough, I also based my response on my first-hand experience of Eurotunnel trips (and at one point, I was going over 3 to 4 times a week), and I quite disagree that it is impossible to stop, the quays are more than wide enough and having had to pull out of the queue because of a sick passenger, I can assure you it can be done without major problems to anyone.

 

I didn't dismiss anyone out of hand, far from it, but likewise, I don't believe in sending people on wild goose chases.

 

OP has stated he already had contacted Eurotunnel and they have already turned him down once. I would assume that he in fact already had given them a run-down on how the alleged incident had taken place, so I personally see little merit in explaining it again and firmly believe he would get the same answer.

 

If OP is intent on pursuing this, then I'd say his best bet is to contact his insurance company and see what they reckon his chances are to pursue this. My feeling is that he's wasting his time, no least because of the way the incident is supposed to have happened as well as the non-reporting it there and then.

 

PS: I'm not logged on Skype either, I don't know why it keeps on showing it. ;-)

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Thta's all very well BW but who does he report the incident to the guy directing traffic - I doubt the guy would be even prepared to take the OP's details let alone even listen to his complaint

 

Of course they denied liability - don't they all - that doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid claim which if the cost of repair justifies they can pursue

 

As for wild goose chases clearly (& unless I'm wrong) you haven't worked in RTA claims

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Oh, that's an easy one, and again, I am speaking from experience: When you pull out of the queue and stop, even if you thought that there was only one chap around, all of a sudden, there'll be a dozen of staff by your car, and if you're unlucky, a couple of CRS with them!

 

RTA - not UK ones, no. From all over the world, yes. Claims, repats, the lot. My bedtime stories would scare a regular loss-adjuster from now to Halloween. ;-)

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Thanks for the responses.

 

My view at the time, and the reason I did not simply remain in the same spot was thay any damage was not going to disappear - I didn't even check it myself until I parked elsewhere (and there was part of their door trim lodged in the bumper). If a heavy stainless steel door makes contact with a painted bumper it will undoubtedly do some damage, no matter how sensitive the sensor is. I am actually surprised a warning signal wasn't sent to the train crew.

 

The guy at the end of the train did not appear to be the "right" person to report anything to - I did not stop on the platform as I thought there would be an office further on - there is on the ferry, and there is at nearly all train termini. Not on Eurotunnel I found out.

 

As to the question regarding the car crash - if it was possible to move the car and it prevented traffic hold up then yes I would move the car out of the way (assuming no injuries).

 

At the end of the day it is some scratched paintwork -probably not worth the effort of pursuing -I didn't even try to make a claim, I just asked for Eurotunnel's comment, and then they went completely defensive.

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I don't believe it:eek: you actually have bits of their train & they are dismissing your claim out of hand:evil:

 

Have you told them - if not I should do so when at the same asking them to reconsider their current stance. - Having what is physical evidence tends to support you allegation:D

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Tha car is an automatic and was in Park with the handbrake on - it physically cannot move until the ignition is switched on.

 

The doors are actually closed before you drive up to them - i.e. when the carriage in front is full they close both the back door of the front carriage and the front door of your carriage. They then direct you to roll forward, forward, forward and stop - so that there is about an inch to spare at the front, and 3/4 of a car length at the back of the carriage. In this case, the loader had a second look once I stopped, but decided that it was ok and didn't ask me to reverse. A simple misjudgement, but not mine.

 

The residue on my bumper was part of their door trim - a rubber or plastic coated edge. When I mentioned this they stated tha their doors had a stainless steel edge. I thought I was going mad, but my passengers have confirmed that there was a black edge strip on the doors. The mark has washed off, so I have no remaining evidence, but they did lie to me.

 

The other thing that gets me is tah they have CCTV in the carriages in case of operational problems - I would have thought htatthe door had a sensor that gave a warning somewhere and then the crew could simply look at their screen and see a problem. (It really wouldn't surprise me if they did.)

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OPs very 1st thread quote: 'there was some damage to the painted bumper'.

OPs thread 22.24 quote: 'The mark has washed off'

Wish my car damages just washed away, im sorry if the car was hit by the train door and there very heavy... you would have stopped to inspect the damage and report it accordingly.

!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor

7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager

 

4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )

Partner... 23 Years social services depts

 

All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.

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The damage to the bumper is some deep scratches in the paintwork. The material left by the door was resudue from the door trim, either rubber or paint (and not a large amount at that). When I say washed off, I mean it came off in the rain and wet roads. The damage itself did not wash off.

 

The doors had a sensor that prvented them from opening fully when they hit the obstruction. The door rested against the bumper - it is the delay in the sensing and the door stopping that caused teh scratches. Without the sensor there would have been a "crunch."

 

I would have reported it, but I was not to know tha the guy at the end of the train was the last possible contact with Eurotunnel. I was looking for a reception desk/ticket office/customer service type of building that they have at the exits to the ferry (ok, so it is an entrance but accessible from the exits).

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