Inside a DCA!

[JonCris]

The FOS will want any complaints procedure exhausted before investigating - that isn't just complaints about DCA's.

 

The charge is £450 to investigate, but is applied by the FOS member - (the DCA, in this case) the FOS is free to complainants.

 

The FOS will refuse the complaint if you haven't followed the companies internal complaints process, as they "haven't had the opportunity to respond in full".

 

I would say enter in to correspondance the DCA surrounding the issue, then make a complaint in writing when they don't respond favourably - not stating your case early on may be detrimental to the outcome later. Again, if you haven't stated your complaint to the DCA effectively, but add to it later when/if the FOS get involved, the FOS will say the company hasn't had the opportunity to respond and refuse the complaint.

 

The reason I asked that is that I believe not many people being pestered by these DCA's realise that they have a complaints procedure at all and certainly don't know that they can go to the FOS in the first place.

 

OTB; is this a delibrate ploy to avoid formal complaints and where does the FOS fit in to your "procedure/process" posts, regarding roles within the DCA and methods of collection, etc?

 

Correct car - but it should also be noted that the reasons why many complainants add to their original claimant - is that the DCA's don't suspend action & in fact some sell the account on whilst investigations are ongoing

[onthebrink]

Yes... FOS do expect the Complaints Procedure to be exhausted before they'll get involved. That doesn't stop the FOS contacting the DCA to get "a wriggle on" though, if it drags on too long.... I have one going through at the moment. In my case, FOS contacted the DCA ages ago, giving them a fair chance to put things right (as if). Needless to say, they didn't/couldn't/haven't... which is why I've written to FOS again (with a ref. number this time).

 

I'm assuming this is the point when the charge could come into it.... when the DCA will be given an opportunity to give me what I'm after (wise), or face a full investigation (unwise).

 

Meanwhile, I wait with baited breath.... :grin:

 

All DCAs have their own complanits procedure which normally is started upon receipt of a formal compliant in writing. The complaint is normally dealt with by a supervisor and can range from abuse to a debtor to failure to provide information. The process is taken seriously but wil not prevent enforcement action continuing, so you could still be getting calls/letters while the complaint is investigated. DCAs do not normally have a time limit on responding to a formal complaint but it should take no longer than 28 days, and that's normally the complex cases. To be honest, ehether they take it seriously really comes down to the complaint. If you saying a debt collector 'threatened me with...?' then it is unlikely to be a positive outcome for the debtor.

The whole point creditors use DCAs is because they are prepared to say things a high street bank just couldn't say (because of customer/media relations, I mean, they are unlikely to be seen as 'the singing bank' if they are threatening their customers with bailiff action!). You would be surprised how much DCAs recovery for their clients by using such tactics, back on topic though.

 

A complaint to the FoS normally starts with a basic request to the DCA for a response to the complaint...' Mr X has complained about Y event, what have/are you doing to resolve this'. Communication between the DCA and the FoS is normally done in a non-confrontational way (the old 'lets work together to resolve this'), and more to confirm the DCA has acted 'reasonable'. I have never read a FoS complaints enquiry letter that has ever quoted the law, or regulation. Their letters, for example, don't have comments like, 'under s77/78 you are required to....you have failed to conform to s77/78, etc.

When it comes to the charges imposed on DCAs, in my experience this normally only occurs if the FoS have to send an investigator to the DCAs office with the power to read, recover and remove data or information relating to the complaint. The DCA is normally given advanced notice of any such visit.

And you do have to have exhausted the DCAs complaints process before the FoS will get involved (just like TS), but to be honest the FoS will in the first instance be looking to see if the DCAs response was 'reasonable'.

[onthebrink]

OTB.

 

just a question 4 u but will give u a bit of back round first.

 

Have a acc with littlewoods and they passed it to In house who were told were to go due to the letter being recieved by my after i had CCAd littlewoods.

 

Now i have not had any demand letters other than statements from littlewoods or the in house DCAs since october of last year.

 

NDR have not contacted me since i told them were to go. littlewoods last corresponded with me in Dec with there statement which i recieved in january.

 

what is the possibility that the acc has been passed to a non in house DCA and if so how long would it usually take for a DCA to contact me?

 

If it had they would have contacted you by now. You should have a look and see if you account is in default. I would suspect it is, and the in-house DCA have put enforcement on 'suspend' or 'hold', and the account is just generating statements. At some point the account will automatically be passed for determination, and it is at that point it will be passed to an external DCA. When that will happen, not sure, but no less than 90 days from the date of you last contracted payment.

[The GodMother]

If it had they would have contacted you by now. You should have a look and see if you account is in default. I would suspect it is, and the in-house DCA have put enforcement on 'suspend' or 'hold', and the account is just generating statements. At some point the account will automatically be passed for determination, and it is at that point it will be passed to an external DCA. When that will happen, not sure, but no less than 90 days from the date of you last contracted payment.

 

OTB thanks for that.

 

So from what your saying the last contract payment then 90 days later, at least, they pass you to a DCA.

 

Well my last contract payment NOT including the CCA request money was the begining of September and the letter from NDR was dated exactly 2 weeks and 6 days later.

 

The CCA request was sent the begining of October and cashed the 8th October. So this is defently out side of the standard 90 days as it is nearly 7 months since last payment and 6 mths since CCA payment.

 

Chrissi

[onthebrink]

OTB thanks for that.

 

So from what your saying the last contract payment then 90 days later, at least, they pass you to a DCA.

 

Well my last contract payment NOT including the CCA request money was the begining of September and the letter from NDR was dated exactly 2 weeks and 6 days later.

 

The CCA request was sent the begining of October and cashed the 8th October. So this is defently out side of the standard 90 days as it is nearly 7 months since last payment and 6 mths since CCA payment.

 

Chrissi

 

So it would appear they have decided not to 'enforce' the debt as they don't have a valid CCA.

 

I would just have the standard letter ('when the OC provides a valid CCA I'll respond to your demand') on hand if they do pass it to a DCA.

[The GodMother]

well i have not heard from anyone regarding this money at all.

[car2403]

well i have not heard from anyone regarding this money at all.

 

Don't worry - only another 5yrs and 5 months until it's statute barred!

 

Then the real fun will begin, as those "specialist DCA's" start coming out of the woodwork!

[fuzzybobble]

By the time the "specialist" DCA's come out of the woodwork, I'll be 5 and a bit years wiser to all this. Got them all on the run around after just over a year, so another 5 and they deffo won't have a hope in hell.

 

The only way any of them will see another penny from me, is if I decide to send one with unpaid postage, so it costs them a quid to get it.

[PriorityOne]

 

When it comes to the charges imposed on DCAs, in my experience this normally only occurs if the FoS have to send an investigator to the DCAs office with the power to read, recover and remove data or information relating to the complaint. The DCA is normally given advanced notice of any such visit.

And you do have to have exhausted the DCAs complaints process before the FoS will get involved (just like TS), but to be honest the FoS will in the first instance be looking to see if the DCAs response was 'reasonable'.

 

The OC has (unlawfully) amalgamated 3 accounts into 1 and then sold that account on to the DCA under the same one account number. The DCA were stupid enough to send me a copy of a letter from the OC detailing this .... which is why I think "someone" may be in a mess now.... either the OC/DCA, or both.

 

I'm not sure "reasonable" comes into it in this case.... I doubt the DCA does either, which is why they can't/won't give me a final, written response to my complaint.

[The GodMother]

I love that idea Fuzzy.

 

remember to use the biggest envelope you can find asweel as it will cost them more. Maybe you should add the odd house brick to.

[car2403]

The only way any of them will see another penny from me, is if I decide to send one with unpaid postage, so it costs them a quid to get it.

 

Genius! Ideas like that should be capable of patent, IMHO...

[lizzy40]

Going off track - When a defaulted account is in the hands of a dca does the collected money get passed back to the original creditor?

[onthebrink]

Going off track - When a defaulted account is in the hands of a dca does the collected money get passed back to the original creditor?

 

Yes, less a % fee, but all monies you pay reduce the balance outstanding on the account. The % fee taken by the DCA is the cost to the OC for their 'service'.

[andrew1]

Going off track - When a defaulted account is in the hands of a dca does the collected money get passed back to the original creditor?

 

You need to establish whether the dca has bought the debt or just collecting on behalf of the Original Creditor and acting as an agent. If it's collecting as an agent then the monies get passed back to the original creditor and the dca gets a % commission for collecting. If it's sold then the DCA keeps it having already paid a small % in the £ for the alleged amount of debt for the 'purchase' of the debt, invariably somewhere between 7% - 12% of the face value. What they collect thereafter is theirs to keep which is what makes the industry so lucrative ie: they pay £100 for a £1000 debt which they attempt to collect from us, if we pay it all they make £900 - not a bad days work!

 

Collection charges come in different guises and not always legit..which charges are you referring to?

 

Sarah

[lizzy40]

So the amount a DCA would earn from an account depend on how much is outstanding?

 

Also why do some DCA's add a collection charge on top, are they legally allowed to do this?

[PriorityOne]

 

Also why do some DCA's add a collection charge on top, are they legally allowed to do this?

 

Probably because no-one ever questioned their right to do so until recently.... a bit like with our friends in the banking industry.

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

 

Also why do some DCA's add a collection charge on top, are they legally allowed to do this?

 

The OFT Guidance is clear about collection fees:

 

- there must be express contractual provision

- the amount must be indicated in the contract

- fees must be based upon actual and necessary costs

- fees must not be disproportionate to the main debt

 

I've yet to see any collection charge that meets the above criteria.

[stapeley]

HI again , What was the DCA response to a debtor saying they were filling for bankrupcy ?

[tomterm8]

In my experience, they generally increase the harassment campaign. Some people have said that if you offer them a settlement, they sometimes take it. Shrug. Since each company is different, you won't be able to predict it.

[Goldlady]

I sent all my creditors a copy of my completed bankruptcy petition. They all backed right down and accepted my reduced offers;). I had fully intended to go ahead but didn't need to in the end (Thank you CAG)

[stargazeratdawn]

I'm just embarking with the CCCS on a DMP but, with eight creditors, its only time until I get passed on to a DCA. Is it worth me asking my creditors ( All Credit card companies) for a SAR now, or am I jumping the gun? I would have thought that with me paying regularly and on time until last November, that this constituted proof that the debt and balance exists? The other question is this: I owe in total £60K. If I get a windfall of say £5K, can I start to haggle with each creditor for a reduced full and final settlement, Say 60%, or will that set the cat amongst the pigeons? Thanks for a great thread...

[tomterm8]

A S.A.R. asks the creditor for all information they hold on you. It has no implications as to whether you are paying the debt or not. It may be used if you want to reclaim any charges.

 

A consumer credit agreement request asks for a copy of the credit agreement, and does not imply that you are refusing to pay the agreement. There are any number of reasons why you might want this info.

 

You can offer creditors anything, they don't have to accept it. I would start by asking them how much they would settle for. Then bargaining like hades, it does help if you are willing to do the agreement over several weeks or months. Offer them a very nominal payment. Ask them what F&FS they would offer. Sort of sigh, and say you're sorry you can't afford that etc. Bargain like hades, and make every pound count. Watch don't get done get dom for ideas;)

 

The golden rules are it must be a full and final settlement , and it must be in writing.

[onthebrink]

Good evening all.

 

I am really busy at the moment with year ends and not had much time to read the thread this week.

 

Sorry. 8)

 

I'll have a quick read now and add any useful comments as required.

 

:) Thanks for all the reputation comments, much appreciated :)

[onthebrink]

So the amount a DCA would earn from an account depend on how much is outstanding?

Sort of. It depends on 3 things.

1) If the debt is 'owned' by the DCA or OC.

2) If the DCA pay a % fee to the OC they should not be charging YOU as well, if you think this is the case contact the OC and point out that the debt is unlikely to ever be repaid while the DCA is banging on charges.

3)If the DCA is 'in-house' or an external agent.

 

Also why do some DCA's add a collection charge on top, are they legally allowed to do this?

Yes it is legal but not really 'reasonable', particularly when the balance keeps increasing.

My advice to anyone paying monthly payments but the debt is still increasing is to demand a CCJ. The OC/DCA will stop adding charges and you can actually reduce the debt. But DON'T default on the CCJ payments.

 

 

[onthebrink]

HI again , What was the DCA response to a debtor saying they were filling for bankrupcy ?

 

They will bring forward the 'final determination' stage and assess what action should occur in order to bring about a quick recovery. The OC will be notified and normally enforcement action is increased. I can do a chapter on bankruptcy if anyone is interested, but it is a 'last resort' for both creditor and Debtor.

 

Creditors (except HMRC, which is known as a 'preferential' creditor) will rarely file a petition for bankruptcy unless they have identified major assets, and even then it is normally the largest unsecured creditor because they will be the first in the Q after secured and preferential creditors.