Received a court claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors **WON THEY GAVE UP**

[DoubleVee]

Hi all,

About 2 or 3 years ago I defaulted on an LXDirect account which had a balance of about £650. When it was passed to a debt collection agency I rang them and offered to pay £50 a month and they said they were not an instalment agency and would only accept half now and half a month later. So I foolishly ignored them.

 

I began receiving letters from various companies about it and yesterday received a county court claim form issued by Bryan Carter Solicitors. I also received a letter from Bryan Carter's today notifying me that they had issued litigation proceedings against me.

 

The amount on the court form is for £229 which includes £50 solicitors fee and £15 court costs, but it states in the particulars of claim that this is part of £658.79(The Debt).

 

What I want to know is what I should do now!! Should I just pay the £229? Don't know how to respond, can someone please advise me?

[sillygirl1]

Defend the claim - state that you believe BC is going for his fees only and the amount of the debt being claimed is wrong. He is pulling a fast one and if you read this site you will stop yourself from being scammed by him.

 

Report him to the Law Commissioners and the Trading Standards and OFT as what he is doing is barely legal... others will be along soon to give more advice.

[DoubleVee]

Defend the claim - state that you believe BC is going for his fees only and the amount of the debt being claimed is wrong. He is pulling a fast one and if you read this site you will stop yourself from being scammed by him.

 

Report him to the Law Commissioners and the Trading Standards and OFT as what he is doing is barely legal... others will be along soon to give more advice.

 

Can you explain further? I do owe £658 though. If I do nothing, allow a judgement to be passed and then pay £229 within 28 days am I right in thinking that a CCJ will not be recorded on file and they can then not sue me for them remaining balance? So in effect I could pay £229 and "get off" with the rest? Or am I being silly?

[sillygirl1]

If you pay the £229 it will NOT go against the debt it will also give BC a chance to go for further CCJs against you - plus a charging order. If you pay the £229 before 28 days BC will slam on a "forthwith" judgement for the remainder of the debt on the basis that you have paid £229... a "forthwith" judgement means you will have to pay the remainder immediately or he will have a charging order in place within 3 months - less if he can manage it.

 

You will be silly if you let this go undefended so please take the advice here - if not you will be liable for a lot more than the difference between £658 and £229.

 

Please read the threads on BC on here and you will see what I am on about.

[DoubleVee]

If you pay the £229 it will NOT go against the debt it will also give BC a chance to go for further CCJs against you - plus a charging order. If you pay the £229 before 28 days BC will slam on a "forthwith" judgement for the remainder of the debt on the basis that you have paid £229... a "forthwith" judgement means you will have to pay the remainder immediately or he will have a charging order in place within 3 months - less if he can manage it.

 

You will be silly if you let this go undefended so please take the advice here - if not you will be liable for a lot more than the difference between £658 and £229.

 

Please read the threads on BC on here and you will see what I am on about.

 

OK thanks. When you say I should defend the claim what should I put on the form?

[sillygirl1]

That the amount of alleged debt being claimed is wrong - that you have not had any documentation from BC,

 

Here are some threads with advice on what he is up to... don't forget to complain either.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/109292-help-bryan-carter-solicitors.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/57941-bryan-carter-solicitors-capital.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/114610-bryan-carter-solicitors-advice.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/123071-rockhag-bryan-carter-co.html

 

After reading this lot you should have some ideas of what to put - I can come up with more links if you need them.

[DoubleVee]

Thanks sillygirl, some helpful advice there.

 

I spoke to one of my friends earlier who is a solicitor, but he mainly deals with criminal law. Basically he said that what is on the claim form is not right, and that he wants the claim form and any letters I have from Bryan Carter as he's going to get a partner at his law firm to look it over for me and sort it out.

[pt2537]

Bryan Carters Will most likely discontinue at the first sign of resistance

 

Chances are that an LX direct account wont have a credit agreement backing it up and they are hoping you wont defend and they will get a judgment by default

 

i would personally use a CPR request and ask them for disclosure

 

if they dont run away at that then the moment you file a defence i bet they run a mile

 

i can assure you, you dont need a partner in a law firm to deal with these

 

i didnt even need my tutor who is a Barrister and a QC of 23 years to defeat them

 

in fact i think my eight year old daughter could prepare a defence that would make them discontinue;)

[DoubleVee]

I'll let my mate look over it and see what they say. It won't cost me anything so there's nothing to lose is there? When you say file a CPR request, can you explain what that is? Also, would I have to send the forms back saying I'm going to defend the claim before issuing a CPR request?

[sillygirl1]

I told you so - and thanks for tickling my scales....

 

Please report back what your solicitors friend says as it may be useful to other posters. They might even be able to lodge a complaint on you behalf against BC. As you can see it is his usual pattern in play.

 

Please let us know what they say.

[DoubleVee]

How do they get away with doing this then if it's wrong? And in my case, what is it exactly they are doing wrong?

[sillygirl1]

IMHO (and not necessarily the views of people on this site) they are playing on the ignorance of people - if somebody you owed said you could pay 1/3 of the debt and wouldn't get hassled again wouldn't you like to do that? So far I haven't had to deal with him personally but I've had to fill in a few forms for friends who have... each case has been dropped.

 

Your legal friend will be able to elaborate more on why he is getting away with it, if you can show them this site and the links I've given you.

 

As I said a report back from your legal friend would be very helpful.

[DoubleVee]

Oh, by the way, the claimant is named as;

 

Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L,

RE:"SDFS Recoveries"

25B Boulevard Royal

L-2449 Luxembourg

 

Who the hell are they when they're at home??

[pt2537]

I'll let my mate look over it and see what they say. It won't cost me anything so there's nothing to lose is there? When you say file a CPR request, can you explain what that is? Also, would I have to send the forms back saying I'm going to defend the claim before issuing a CPR request?

Hi,

 

now i mean no disrespect to your friend, but law is such a vast and expansive subject that if he or she does not specialise in Consumer ( Credit ) law then its highly unlikely that they will know all that is needed to advise you without carrying out research into the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the 84 (i think thats how many there are) different regulations and also cases such as Wilson and FCT, Dimond and Lovell and also Wilson and Hurstanger

 

i have also heard a solicitor tell a user to admit the claim as they have no prospect of success only to come to us for help and win the case hands down

 

now im not saying dont speak to your friend but you should make sure they are fully conversant with that area of law

 

Now then, onto the CPR request,

 

CPR means Civil Procedure Rules,these govern practice and procedure in court claims and give the courts case management powers amongst other things

 

the CPR request is made to ask for disclosure of the Documents they will be reliant upon in the case

 

under the CCA 1974 ,for a court to enforce a credit agreement, the agreement must contain the prescribed terms as laid out in SI 1983 /1553 and must be signed by both creditor and debtor

 

now i can honestly say that 90% of catalogue agreements are unenforceable and as a result the court by way of Section 127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is prevented from enforcing an agreement which doesnt comply

 

 

i have battled littlewoods over 3 seperate accounts and not one of them is enforceable

 

thankfully,due to my knowledge of the law in this area i have not had to get to the court stage as when they realise you know what you're talking about they tend to give up and run away

 

 

the cpr letter is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1048118.html

 

 

i would have a read of toms thread here also http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

if you want any further info let me know

[The GodMother]

This is a CPR.

 

It is basically saying you have to provide me with these details.

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear xxxx,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of intended legal action sent by your company on XXXX which was received on XXXX.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended and that a counterclaim will be made against ** DCA **. I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty to act reasonably at all times.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate information to investigate your claim.

To enable me to investigate this claim I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to disclose this information, I may apply to the court under Part 18 and part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ** CREDITOR **.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 14 days of your providing this information. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, or if you start proceedings without furnishing this information, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity to settle this matter amicably.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

type dont print

give them something like 14-21 days to reply and say if they dont you will inform the courts of your inability to file a full defence because they have not given u full information.

Send by specail delivery

Any questions just ask

[The GodMother]

Oh, by the way, the claimant is named as;

 

Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L,

RE:"SDFS Recoveries"

25B Boulevard Royal

L-2449 Luxembourg

 

Who the hell are they when they're at home??

 

 

Well you may have not heard of them but they are very well known to the forums.

 

They are littlewoods.

 

Basically littlewoods and there sub companys are owned by a company called Shop Direct Finiacal Services.

 

This gets shortened to SDFS. Now SDFS own 2 debt collection agencys.

NDR, National Debt Recoveries, and Phoneix recoveries.

 

So when you get letters/ court claims saying Phoneix recoveries OR NDR it is littlewoods under a different name.

 

Chrissi

[ananya]

Subbing

[DoubleVee]

Hi,

 

now i mean no disrespect to your friend, but law is such a vast and expansive subject that if he or she does not specialise in Consumer ( Credit ) law then its highly unlikely that they will know all that is needed to advise you without carrying out research into the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the 84 (i think thats how many there are) different regulations and also cases such as Wilson and FCT, Dimond and Lovell and also Wilson and Hurstanger

 

i have also heard a solicitor tell a user to admit the claim as they have no prospect of success only to come to us for help and win the case hands down

 

now im not saying dont speak to your friend but you should make sure they are fully conversant with that area of law

 

 

Yeah I see what you're saying mate. He knows bits and bobs about this but like I say, he doesn't deal with this kind of thing everyday. Hence he wanted someone who does know all about it to have a look at it. Don't worry, I won't allow them to tell me just to admit to the claim or anything like that after reading this site. The same lad has helped me a couple of times in the past, which is why I spoke to him over this matter.

 

Should I file the acknowledgement of service on MCOL and then send a CPR letter?

[The GodMother]

does not matter what order you do them in.

 

You can be waiting for the CPR to print whilest you file the acknowledgement of service.

[DoubleVee]

OK thanks GodMother.

 

I am still going to have to pay someone £658 at the end of the day though aren't I??

[sillygirl1]

NOT IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE CORRECT PAPERWORK you won't. Please listen to us as we have had personal experience of these people and know their tactics. If BC has your debt you can almost certainly guarantee HE hasn't got the proper paperwork, hence the partial claim......

[The GodMother]

OK thanks GodMother.

 

I am still going to have to pay someone £658 at the end of the day though aren't I??

 

Doublevee.

 

Please please trust us.

 

I have personal experiance with LX direct and abound so i know what they are like.

 

I CCAd both these accounts in october and l am still waiting for a valid CCA.

 

So please dont think you will have to pay anybody.

[NailPost]

So please dont think you will have to pay anybody.....ANYTHING.

 

I appreciate you recognise this debt is yours and are not trying to avoid it but these muppets are trying it on claiming money from you they don't have the right to collect.

 

Carters (acting on someone's behalf) are claiming their fees in a move that is barely legal and frowned upon by the Law Society. They are simply looking after No 1. You should do the same. If they want to waste their money chasing you for a debt that cannot be enforced that's their lookout. Stick with us mate.

[DoubleVee]

OK, I've just been down to see my mate, and he basically said what you guys said. Most of what he was saying went over my head, as it was all legal jargon. But he wrote something to put down as a defence. This it what he wrote.

 

1. The defendant denies the sum owed. The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof to show how the sum claimed is owed including providing a copy of the agreement allowing the costs of recovery to be recouped.

 

2. The defendant requires sight of the deed of assignment of the debt from Littlewoods to Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L , for the avoidance of doubt the defendant denies that there has been a valid transfer of the debt from Littlewoods to Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L.

 

3. This is not a valid claim under the terms of the Littlewoods account. No term exists to authorise payment of the costs of recovery and the claimant is put to strict proof of their claim.

 

Any opinions?

[pt2537]

OK, I've just been down to see my mate, and he basically said what you guys said. Most of what he was saying went over my head, as it was all legal jargon. But he wrote something to put down as a defence. This it what he wrote.

 

1. The defendant denies the sum owed. The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof to show how the sum claimed is owed including providing a copy of the agreement allowing the costs of recovery to be recouped.

 

2. The defendant requires sight of the deed of assignment of the debt from Littlewoods to Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L , for the avoidance of doubt the defendant denies that there has been a valid transfer of the debt from Littlewoods to Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L.

 

3. This is not a valid claim under the terms of the Littlewoods account. No term exists to authorise payment of the costs of recovery and the claimant is put to strict proof of their claim.

 

Any opinions?

yep as we thought;)

 

well what they have given you is a start, needs adding to though but we can sort that out when does your defence need to be in by?