Debt Collection - Improving the Industry

[sosumi]

Ah well.

[firstwithit]

Stop the nonsense that Lowells are doing at the moment if you read the threads, it would appear that they have bought a job lot of very old debts and phishing for people to frighten and get paid for some of them, its against the law to start with!

Also stop the issue od SD's when the company is nowhere down the line to be issuing one and they are sending them out by 2nd class post in the main to frighten people!

[mrmarmite]

looks like mtw1980 gone home for the night

[surprise]

You have got a hard task ahead of you trying to improve a DCA. Problem is you have had it far too easy for far too long and with the help of such sites as CAG consumers are becoming empowered.

 

I personally have been the subject of two of the worse DCA's going, NCO and AIC. AIC threatening to make me bankrupt, etc. When I said "he would have a job as I hadn't got a penny to my name" he said "you sound very confident" I said "I am". He then went on to say "we will repossess your house" to which I laughed "I said the Council would be very upset if you did this. He then went on to say that I had the weekend to come up with the money in full even if I borrowed from family friends or went to a financial institution. I then asked him "would he lend me the money" a very indignant "no" came back, he finished by saying I'll phone you Monday.

 

How many guidelines did he break in one conversation?

 

There are lots of ideas I could suggest to you for improving your service, implicating procedures being my previous employment, nothing "FREE" in this life though.

[ODC]

What about the 'person' from that well known purchaser of debt from Leeds who told me that if I didnt deal with him on the phone that they had over 300 employees who would phone me continually until I made a payment. He hung up after I told him the call was being recorded.

 

Very professional outfit my arse.

 

I have a great method for improving DCAs but alas its illegal

[ODC]

Keep you thoughts coming all!

Well at least we now know he works for a DCA.

[sosumi]

Well at least we now know he works for a DCA.

Nice one ODC - my first laugh of the day! x

[mrmarmite]

not all dca's work weekends, so be interesting if mtm1980 is in here 2moz,

 

i cant decide if he brave or incredibilly daft comming into cag, if he a true DCA i would assume the latter

 

i would say lets wait for the stick to start but ODC kicked it or quite nicely

[cheesepie]

WHAT A LIBERTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As you may or may not know, I'm new on this site (but have been glued to it quite a lot since I found it!) And I can't believe the cheek of this person who says they work for a DCA.

Surely if you genuinely wanted to find out how to be a decent DCA, and how to 'improve' the 'service' then just read ANY thread on this site to see how NOT to treat people.

 

You don't have to tell everyone who you are just to provoke them.

 

I personally don't think that there is any way DCA's can ever be thought of any differently than they are now. As far as I'm concerned, every bit of disgust that people think of when they think of DCA's they have brought on themselves.

 

AND mr MTW1980 if you are high up in the management system of a DCA you should be even more ashamed of yourself, as your underlings only treat decent people like c..p from your orders!!!/greed!!

 

Oh, and one last thing, how can you possibly expect to come on here and for people to give general advice to you when everyone of our lives have been affected (probaly badly) by people like you.

 

I suggest you crawl back under stone and stay there............. or pop back to your DCA's Managers office.... oh, sorry, same thing.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Good idea on the call recording. As all reputable DCA's record all calls anyway, I'd like to see some way of providing access of recordings to the customer / debtor. Of course, this would need to be controlled access (Data Protection Act and the likes), and need some real thought as to how this should work.

 

 

This is, of course, already possible by submitting a SAR to the DCA; though it seems that many of them are either not aware of their obligations, or choose to ignore them.

 

In terms of your general question as to how the debt industry could be improved, my thoughts are that these are at least some of the changes that are needed:

 

- firstly, effective enforcement. If breaking the rules becomes too expensive, DCAs will soon change their practices. If these means that the bottom-feeders of the industry are non-viable, so be it. The world will be a better place without certain companies - their staff needn't suffer - there will always be burgers to flip.

 

- the industry must change its attitude to debtors, and stop the pretence that all debtors are 'won't pays', and accept that all sorts of factors contribute to debt.

 

- the industry must accept that ethical debt collecting costs more than the way it's done at the moment - staff need to be properly trained, administration needs to be better (e.g ensuring that all the documentation is in place before the collection process begins), and there will be less debts to collect.

 

- legislation should be strengthened to ensure that whilst legitimate, enforceable debts can be collected, debtors are protected from harassment and unreasonable demands, and DCAs that break the rules are put out of business.

 

- financial institutions must, as original creditors, be made accountable for irresponsible lending.

 

- credit reference agencies must be much more rigidly regulated, and be made accountable if they hold inaccurate data.

[ODC]

DCAs DO NOT record telephone calls for obvious reasons.

 

They would leave themselves wide open to prosecution under the Administration of Justice Act and the Prevention of Harrassment Act

[mtw1980]

Hi All,

 

Yes, I had left for the day. However, I do have a personal interest in this as well, so am back on here this evening to refer back to a few points made so far. (I only work Monday - Friday, although the collections department does do Saturdays)

 

ScarletPimpernel: With regards to the recording of calls, and making them available for consumers / debtors. What I should have said is that I'd like to see the recordings of calls made more readily available to those parties involved. Some sort of secure login where people could access the calls they'd been on (and to allow them to take copies). I believe that call recording should also be made compulsory in the debt collection industry. With these 2 aspects combined, it would stop those unscrupulous DCA's operating the way they do (or at all).

 

I agree also, that those DCA's who break the rules should be put out of business!

 

Ethical debt collection does also cost more. It's something that the DCA I work for is really putting a lot of work into - not just working with debt counsellors and the likes, ensuring that our letters are clear and do not misrepresent anything, working within (and above industry guidelines), and introducing whatever we can to make us as a company more ethical - this includes introducing 'TCF' (Treating Customers Fairly), which was set out by the FSA (a body that we are not even governed by).

 

I appreciate that some people are going to want to give me some stick on here becuse of the industry that I work in - Fair enough. I can understand why some of you would feel that way.

 

However, from the looks of the posts so far we're getting some good suggestions here. You can all see that the industry still needs to improve itself so that all of us in debt get treated better (yes, I have debts too). The thing is, that unless people on my side of the fence (the DCA's) get involved in making these changes, then things will never move forward.

 

(Do you think I want to work in an industry with a bad reputation..... I don't)

 

ODC - was just reading a few of your posts on other threads actually. In particular the HFO Services / First Direct Logistics one. I can't believe that DCA's are trying stuff like that - that's exactly the sort of thing that I want to see out of the industry, which gives the rest of us a bad name.... anyway, I'm kind of breaking my initial rule on this and commenting on individual cases.

 

Please, Please, Please report things like this to the CSA (Credit Services Association) CSA Website. The CSA does have some muscle it can flex over DCA's. If DCA's break rules, then the CSA strikes them off their members list (they're also going to name and shame struck off members in future). If a DCA is struck off as a member of the CSA, then no self respecting creditor will use that DCA in future!

 

Keep your thoughts coming forward on how to improve the industry - some great thoughts so far!

[rory32]

Please, Please, Please report things like this to the CSA (Credit Services Association) CSA Website. The CSA does have some muscle it can flex over DCA's. If DCA's break rules, then the CSA strikes them off their members list (they're also going to name and shame struck off members in future). If a DCA is struck off as a member of the CSA, then no self respecting creditor will use that DCA in future!

While I appreciate your remarks regarding the CSA, some of the worst offenders are at a very senior level in the CSA effectively running it and making policy (Cabot come instantly to mind) and many people have had very bad experiences of the CSA when complaining to them. Basically the CSA (from outside looking in) is there to protect it's members, not the consumer/alleged debtor. If this is changing then that is great, but I would always urge people to use independent bodies such as TS, FOS who actually will take action rather than a body set up by the industry and run by the industry apparently for the industry.

[Curlyben]

Sorry to say making reports to the CSA is a complete waste of time as it is simply an Old Boys Club.

The same is true of the DBSG, I'm afraid.the only real avenue left open to us for positive action is Trading Standards, FOS and ultimately the OFT.

 

the current "head" of the DBSG already has a problem with "rogue debtors" and people asserting their legal rights under CCA, but I digress.

 

I certainly think it is truly noble that you want to make changes within your industry, but without a large amount of influence you can't make the wide ranging changes that are required.

[ScarletPimpernel]

As others have said, the CSA has no credibility - it is no more than a trade protection association. Apart from organising regular industry bottom-sniffing sessions such as the risible DCA of the Year Award, it appears to exist to do no more than give the impression that the debt industry is what it is not - ethical, professional and responsible.

 

Whilst some of its published aims are laudable, it is obvious from these forums that many of its members do not adhere to them, and the CSA does nothing about them.

 

If it is to be credible, it needs to have some sort of impartial input - for example, a panel that deals with complaints that includes members from outside the debt industry.

[Seahorse]

 

Please, Please, Please report things like this to the CSA (Credit Services Association) CSA Website. The CSA does have some muscle it can flex over DCA's. If DCA's break rules, then the CSA strikes them off their members list (they're also going to name and shame struck off members in future). If a DCA is struck off as a member of the CSA, then no self respecting creditor will use that DCA in future!

 

You may be correct in that the CSA HAS muscle to flex. It would appear that they choose not to though. My experience of the CSA goes thusly...

 

Me: I want to complain about company A. Here's my evidence.

CSA: Hello, company A. Have you been naughty?

Company A: No. Who, US??? Never.

CSA: That's OK then. Sorry to have bothered you.

 

Having said that, I do believe it worthwhile to make your complaints. Every time. It's what the CSA have a procedure in place for, and I'm sure the work would help make the lovely Claire's day pass quicker over there.

[andrew1]

Well,well, I wondered when someone with some clout in the industry might begin to take notice of the 'customers', pity Ken Maynard isn't so friendly. As you say mtw1980, you're are bound to get some stick from some, but I wonder just how influential you might be? I know the Credit Industry well and as may have been noticed am an avid contributor to the Cabot Fan Club.

 

The work we do behind the scenes is not confined to Cabot although they were our starter pack so to speak. This work developed as a result of practices which the industry has been complacent about for at least the 25 yrs I have been involved in the Credit Industry. I'd say it was a bit of a shock to the industry when the likes of CAG brought so many experiences out into the open and generated a synergy unparalleled with anything experienced before.

 

I too have suffered at the hands of DCA's. Similar to some previous posters, automated telephone calls 10-15 a day, no-one on the end until a spare collector picks up their end - that 'vacant pause', threats of bailiffs turning up on a Monday because I didn't pay by Saturday ( Thank you Wescot ) when no CCJ was in place or even considered at that stage and all the other rhetorics

listed above.

 

What the industry is crying out for is Management to recognise their time is up for complacency, take it on the chin and accept it and begin to train staff to practices which encompass todays laws, not yesterdays hard bully boy tactics. I respect it is a hard job, people are under enough pressure already when in debt to get to grips with things, but help by building trust that you can actually help and guide people through their troubled times. Many do, most don't. You mention organisations like CCCS, search this forum on Malcolm Hurlston and realise why trust is not there, he runs the Registry Trust and sells the information about our ccjs to sub-prime lenders (for horrendous amounts of profit in his not for profit organisation I might add) putting more people into deeper debt which is passed onto a DCA, the people come to his CCCS charity ( which do some really good work) to share their dilemna about debt and then he sits on a Judging panel selecting the DCA of the year award for Credit Today!- it's crackery - he is just one example - Colourful Ken Maynard another, nice chap, but you mention the CSA - complaints to the CSA about Cabot - what's the point? and the current members at the top - it breads no confidence that there are NO regulatory bodies EFFECTIVE in controlling bad practice. I know the industry and the people in it, the attitudes and the process of gathering information about people. It needs serious reform. The DCA staff are just not trained in OFT guidelines, CCA regulations and all sorts of things like the Data Protection Act.

 

Cleaning up the CRA's would be a good start in improving the industry, but what influence can one person have? If only to make sure the information they receive never gets near them unless the DCA or OC has physical proof that the debt actually exists and that the debtor gets an equal say in whether the recorded information is correct. At present the CRA asks the DCA or OC for clarification and takes their word rather than the debtor - guilty until proven innocent - it's dreadful. It cost my son £1500 in additional mtg interest costs because a stubbon CRA accepted a note from Hutchinson Orange over a telephone that never worked. The CRA took Hutchinsons word, my son had no time to delay getting his 1st time mtg and fight the CRA's. He'd never had credit, worked for 7 yrs in the same job, not a glitch in his life and he's like thousands of others, paying through the nose for incorrect information. Think of the process he would have to go through to claim that back - people don't have that time, but should never be put through the process of testing it.

 

I know the actions, some of which have come from work we have done on here in the Cabot Fan Club and throughout CAG, have changed certain attitudes, we have dug very deep in getting information about most DCA's and their personnel and practices and we have turned heads and made people think. At least the industry is talking about it all now. So, if you can take on board the Training issues, influence the CRA's procedures, encourage like one lady I know, the development of educating our children in schools on how to treat Credit and finance so they don't get sucked into debt so easily by banking advertisements and easy credit, offer some kind of counselling service which is trustworthy and unbiased. Make sure debt is bone-fide and authentic before chasing people, then you might, just might begin to scratch the surface of change.

 

Well done for coming on - you sound level headed and that's a good start.

 

 

Sarah

[ODC]

I agree also, that those DCA's who break the rules should be put out of business!

There wouldnt be too many left then!!!!

 

(Do you think I want to work in an industry with a bad reputation..... I don't)I DO and so do a hell of a lot on here

 

ODC - was just reading a few of your posts on other threads actually. In particular the HFO Services / First Direct Logistics one. I can't believe that DCA's are trying stuff like that - that's exactly the sort of thing that I want to see out of the industry, which gives the rest of us a bad name.... anyway, I'm kind of breaking my initial rule on this and commenting on individual cases.Are You really that naive?? You dont have to worry about this being an individual case. Ruthbridge use it all the time.

 

 

DCAs deliberately use underhand and deceitful tactics to try to CON people into phoning them. Is it right or proper to phone neighbours to pass on an urgent message regarding a debt. Is it right to post phoney cards saying you have called but no-one was in. Is it right to say Your ''Licencsed Field Agents'' have called at my house when they havent. WTF is a LFA anyway. Who issues these Licences anyway. This would appear to be yet another way of trying to mislead people into thinking these doorstep callers were some sort of official. Oh yes and lets not forget the threats which are designed to look like Court Papers which are ''VALID EVEN IF NOT READ BY YOU''. It obviously took a real genius to think that one up. I will not even bother to discuss the pink pig cartoons sent out by a large Merchant Bank of North America. Need I go on.

 

The activities of your pals in the DCA industry are something which you should be totally ashamed of. They have driven people to suicide and wrecked peoples lives.

 

Of course none of us set out to get into debt but through misfortune or ill health have found ourselves feeling the brunt of the bully boys and girls in the DCAs who have the sole aim of making huge commission and to hell with how they get it. I suppose its better than being made to stand on the desk in front of your colleagues.

 

Thanks to the bullying and threats received most people now google the DCAs and end up here where they can be advised of their RIGHTS and how to deal lawfully with the DCAs.

[spamheed]

Originally Posted by mtw1980

Good idea on the call recording. As all reputable DCA's record all calls anyway, I'd like to see some way of providing access of recordings to the customer / debtor. Of course, this would need to be controlled access (Data Protection Act and the likes), and need some real thought as to how this should work.

a bit like the way consumers are protected by the Data Protection Act from incorrect comments made to CRAs, or data is passed between companies with complete impunity?. what a load of tosh.

The simplest way of cleaning up (and i choose my words carefully) is enforce the laws which DCAs are supposed to follow, nothing less, than what's already in place.

Make them tow the line, punish the individual agent for telling lies to get the sale by using deception and/or threats. then prosecute the company and individual directors for each proven charge, remove their licences and fine them into bankruptcy. I know this may seem a little excessive, but what harm does a £400 fine do to a business that has a turnover with a dozen zeroes? simple answer - none whatsoever

Note: I stop short of lining them up and executing them (but only just)

I record my calls, they record their calls, = you tell lies or threaten me, then you get punished, i tell you I'm not paying because I don't want to, you have evidence of a won't pay attitude = effective self regulation but with teeth

[sillygirl1]

My view is that when you have a first letter from a DCA it MUST include a statement and/or a final bill from the original creditor, that way people can check their own records and see if there "is no known reason why the bill hasn't been paid".

 

I've been chased by DCAs when bills have been paid directly to the original creditor and information hasn't been passed back.

 

Get your databases in proper order and it will save a forest of paperwork on all sides.