Asda Car park

[Bookworm]

Seanamarts, you can sum it up quite easily: 2 wrongs don't do a right.

 

People shouldn't park in the disabled bays. That does not give the right to private companies to bully, threaten, lie and try to levy penalties.

 

I think clamping the offending car for 2 to 3 hours would do the trick much more efficiently, then remove it. No charge. Simply immobilise the car. Granted, it won't make the space more available to a disabled person in that time, but I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who will have been inconvenienced in that manner once will not park in a disabled space ever again.

[seanamarts]

Unfortunately I don’t really thnk there is any easy way around this problem.

seanamarts is absolutely correct in criticising the selfish people who park in these spaces when they know that morally this is wrong, and I can understand the frustration but on the other hand myself and others such as pin1onu who know these methods of enforcement are unlawful and wrong are also correct in criticising these companies such as Asda for having such a blatant disregard for the law. They simply cannot be allowed to attempt to bully, threaten and try to 'fine' people when they have no legal right to do so. It is up to them to to try to find a system that is legal and is fair to everyone.

Please dont think im trying to pick an argument here with you, but do you think it fair that an able bodied person takes the space from some one less able than themselves because they cant be bothered to take those extra steps walking from a normal parking space something they are quite able to do. Does it really matter what the sign says. The law is an ass most of the time any way and often contradicts itself and very hard for most to understand. If a sign says do not park here or you will get a charge then you shouldnt park there end of story.

[seanamarts]

Seanamarts, you can sum it up quite easily: 2 wrongs don't do a right.

 

People shouldn't park in the disabled bays. That does not give the right to private companies to bully, threaten, lie and try to levy penalties.

 

I think clamping the offending car for 2 to 3 hours would do the trick much more efficiently, then remove it. No charge. Simply immobilise the car. Granted, it won't make the space more available to a disabled person in that time, but I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who will have been inconvenienced in that manner once will not park in a disabled space ever again.

I totally agree with you that two wrongs dont make a right, and I certainly agree with you that bullying intimidation tactics etc is not the way to go about things, but clamping a car isnt the answer in this case either, because these spaces are desperately needed. I sometimes feel that people think that disabled drivers are privileged to have these spaces, believe me we are not, most disabled people feel labeled as it is and some of us feel embarrassed to use our blue badges and park in these spaces. Im fortunate in not looking 'disabled' and have been questioned many times whether im the badge holder when parking in disabled bays, thats embarrassing enough.

To most disabled people it gives us just that bit of normality and that bit of comfort to know that we can park safely where we dont have to walk far, it also gives a little peace of mind to know this and makes it easier to shop.

[JonCris]

seanamarts I too am disabled & whilst I agree with a lot of what you say about inconsiderate drivers I don't agree with the way Asda are going about it

 

& yes the wording is important. If there are rules & laws they should be adhered to - just because someones intention can be considered justified or noble doesn't mean they are above the law.

 

As the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intention

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi

Guys I spent ages looking up some latin words to describe the troll, and look some one has killed Requiescat in pace it its not fair Qvae nocent docent as they say

he was Radicitus, comes

 

enough of the funny bit we all have to be careful about troll some are much more Subtle

Regards

 

Andy

[JonCris]

Seanamarts, you can sum it up quite easily: 2 wrongs don't do a right.

 

People shouldn't park in the disabled bays. That does not give the right to private companies to bully, threaten, lie and try to levy penalties.

 

I think clamping the offending car for 2 to 3 hours would do the trick much more efficiently, then remove it. No charge. Simply immobilise the car. Granted, it won't make the space more available to a disabled person in that time, but I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who will have been inconvenienced in that manner once will not park in a disabled space ever again.

 

I couldn't agree more BW

 

Even having an attendent on hand to 'advise' shoppers not to park in unsuitable bays would I think work, but that would mean that the store, unlike having low cost fixed cameras would have to pay someone to be there & that would cost money & that would never do

[HSBCrusher]

I couldn't agree more BW

 

Even having an attendent on hand to 'advise' shoppers not to park in unsuitable bays would I think work, but that would mean that the store, unlike having low cost fixed cameras would have to pay someone to be there & that would cost money & that would never do

you are quite right.

clamping etc makes money, this idea would cost money.

the fact that it would actually work is not relevant is it?

[ginnever]

3.30pm one sunday afternoon I was dashing into the Asda store at Handsworth in Sheffield as I had forgotten the potatoes for the sunday roast (This is our local supermarket by the way) I have my 3 year old Grandson with me and the car park was very full. Looking for a car space a little voice from the back was saying Nanan, Nanan I want a wee, hold on I say won't be a minute and you can get out of the car. I find a space near the parent toddler bay. Nanan, Nanan I want a wee, parked up quickly got out of the car, locked it, and dashed off to the toilet, one satisfied little boy and no wet patches... grab some potatoes... duly paid for them...returned to the car park all with 15 mins of arrival to find that someone had placed a ticket on my windscreen... oh bu**er, I noticed that I had parked in a disabled bay.. sorry to the disabled people..but £20 fine and if not paid within 28 days £40.00.

 

I was given advice not to pay as nothing would happen...wan't taking the chance so duly paid up...

 

Should I have paid up and would anything have happened if I hadn't?:-|

[JonCris]

Whilst I sympathise to some degree about your plight I would remind you that if it was difficult for YOU to park just imagine how much more difficult you had made it for a disabled person by taking what was obviously a limited resource.

 

All the able-bodied who use such bays always have what they consider is good excuse. The problem is where do you draw the line

 

Whoever told you to ignore the charge is an ijit It's as well you paid it as I doubt the store having just introduced their scheme are not going to act

 

Anyway it's not the store who will come after you but the private parking company & they will be looking to make a profit

 

Having said all that there are issues with them 'fining or penalising motorists, as the terms 'fine' or 'penalty' imply statutory powers which they don't have & to use such terms invalidates their charges.

 

Having paid you could write to ASDA asking that they provide you with evidence confirming their statutory authority to impose a 'fine' on motorists like you. Then when they don't respond with a satisfactory answer (because they can't) demand your money back

[HSBCrusher]

But what about disabled peeps parked up in the "young family" spaces? Those with little kiddies have trouble because the bays are often full of cars belonging to disabled peeps.

I think staff on duty in the car parks would solve quite a few of these problems. Fines and clamps do not.

[pin1onu]

But what about disabled peeps parked up in the "young family" spaces? Those with little kiddies have trouble because the bays are often full of cars belonging to disabled peeps.

I think staff on duty in the car parks would solve quite a few of these problems. Fines and clamps do not.

That is one of my issues with disabled drivers. I have 3 children under 10 so I speak from bitter experience. All to often I have seen disabled drivers parking in the parent/child bays. I sympathize with disabled drivers and understand why they do it. However as a parent of young children you can understand why I'm occassionally tempted to park in the disabled bays. In those cases its a case of sauce for the goose......

 

Incidentally I've challenged a couple of disabled drivers for parking in the parent/child bays when they haven't got any children with them and received a torrent of abuse.

 

I think there are no absolute rights and wrongs on this one. In my view ASDA et al would do better to use moral suasion rather than trying to use an absolute method as they are doing i.e. enforce an illegal penalty charge scheme.

[JonCris]

That is one of my issues with disabled drivers. I have 3 children under 10 so I speak from bitter experience. All to often I have seen disabled drivers parking in the parent/child bays. I sympathize with disabled drivers and understand why they do it. However as a parent of young children you can understand why I'm occassionally tempted to park in the disabled bays. In those cases its a case of sauce for the goose......

 

Incidentally I've challenged a couple of disabled drivers for parking in the parent/child bays when they haven't got any children with them and received a torrent of abuse.

 

I think there are no absolute rights and wrongs on this one. In my view ASDA et al would do better to use moral suasion rather than trying to use an absolute method as they are doing i.e. enforce an illegal penalty charge scheme.

 

Question - If you have, as an able bodied driver with kids, difficulty parking in an ordinary bay just how impossible do you think it is for a disabled driver - I know I couldn't even attempt to get out of my car - so what do you suggest we do forget the shopping or come back when the CP's empty

[Bookworm]

II sometimes feel that people think that disabled drivers are privileged to have these spaces, believe me we are not, most disabled people feel labeled as it is and some of us feel embarrassed to use our blue badges and park in these spaces. Im fortunate in not looking 'disabled' and have been questioned many times whether im the badge holder when parking in disabled bays, thats embarrassing enough.

Yes, Yes, I know the feeling well, being in the same boat (or car as it were. )

 

I couldn't agree more BW

 

Even having an attendent on hand to 'advise' shoppers not to park in unsuitable bays would I think work, but that would mean that the store, unlike having low cost fixed cameras would have to pay someone to be there & that would cost money & that would never do

 

you are quite right.

clamping etc makes money, this idea would cost money.

the fact that it would actually work is not relevant is it?

 

Ok then, isn't this where the reasonable pre-estimate of costs we know and cherish could come into it? Clamp and release on payment of the "real" cost of what the transgression is costing?

 

Terms of Contract: Don't park in disabled bays unless you are a BB holder.

Breach of contract: Non BB holder parks in disabled bay.

Cost necessary to enforce contract: clamper/guard etc. That cost wouldn't be incurred if no-one breached the contract, so surely that cost is recoverable from the person who has breached the contract?

 

Otherwise, there's another possibility, not sure of the legalities or the practicalities, but how about a tow-truck? Remove offending car and dump it either to the furthest end of car-park if big enough with enough space, or on the nearest roadside, and charge driver for those costs too.

 

The advantage of something like the 2 solutions above is that the word will spread very quickly that the store operates 0 tolerance on this and the abuse will quickly stop.

[pin1onu]

Question - If you have, as an able bodied driver with kids, difficulty parking in an ordinary bay just how impossible do you think it is for a disabled driver - I know I couldn't even attempt to get out of my car - so what do you suggest we do forget the shopping or come back when the CP's empty

JC, I'm acutely aware of the problem. I have taken the mother in law shopping and she is disabled. If you look at the suggestions put forward ASDA they aren't going to remedy the situation. Ticketing people isn't suddenly going to free up a space nor is clamping (which will have the reverse effect).

 

I would suggest that a having either a barrier scheme or a PA visibly on patrol would make think twice.

 

As to your last question. It seems to me if a car park is full, for whatever reason, you don't have much choice but to come back when its empty or go elsewhere.

[JonCris]

JC, I'm acutely aware of the problem. I have taken the mother in law shopping and she is disabled. If you look at the suggestions put forward ASDA they aren't going to remedy the situation. Ticketing people isn't suddenly going to free up a space nor is clamping (which will have the reverse effect).

 

I would suggest that a having either a barrier scheme or a PA visibly on patrol would make think twice.

 

As to your last question. It seems to me if a car park is full, for whatever reason, you don't have much choice but to come back when its empty or go elsewhere.

 

Ah! but it's not empty if there are parent & child spaces available - which are suitable for the disabled

 

& whilst it's not my intention to be dismissive of your comments but if you THINK your actually "acutely aware of the problem" your not - to be acutely aware of the problem you have to live it - which includes all the physical discomfort & pain, not forgetting the embarrasment, that goes with being disabled which is usually more prevalent when you are trying to get in or out of your vehicle

[pin1onu]

Ah! but it's not empty if there are parent & child spaces available - which are suitable for the disabled

 

& whilst it's not my intention to be dismissive of your comments but if you THINK your actually "acutely aware of the problem" your not - to be acutely aware of the problem you have to live it - which includes all the physical discomfort & pain, not forgetting the embarrasment, that goes with being disabled which is usually more prevalent when you are trying to get in or out of your vehicle

 

The trouble with using but in a sentence is that it makes whats gone before it into a negative. In other words it is your intention to be dismissive. Also you are making an ASSumption and thus making an ASS of yourself.

 

For the record I have degenerative disease (arthritis) in my back. Fortunately the inflamation and the associated severe pain comes and goes. However when it does "flare up" I am rendered virtually immobile and regular activities (such as shopping) become incredibly difficult and painful. So I am ACUTELY AWARE of the problem. Perhaps even more so when you consider that due to the periodic nature of my problem I don't qualify for a "blue badge" and have to park as able-bodied people do.

[BADGER 69]

My late wife was a BB holder and wheelchair user so I know just what it is like to have inconsiderate people making life more difficult.Oddly enough it is often other BB holders who are the ones who are making life more difficult.

What I'm refering to here are those idiots who obstruct the dropdowns in the pavement. More often than not it is a BB holder.

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Ok, with all the argument going on here it appears that most of you are losing sight of the original problem here.

 

Firstly, let me point out that I am disabled and use a wheelchair full time. I also have a 3yo son. This means that I get to use either disabled or parent and child spaces when I go shopping. But this is not the point.

 

The whole idea of ASDA fining people who abuse a parking syatem that has no basis in law, and is only regulated by a private company employed by ASDA, is not one that, as a disabled person, I can accept. Although I do think that able bodied people should not use the spaces provided by stores for the disabled, there is no law that states that they are not allowed to and can be fined for doing so. As this is a private car park, parking regulations do not apply, except those initiated by the landowner. And as such, any fines imposed by the company can only be recovered if they can prove without doubt that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the person who actually parked in contravention to their parking rules.

 

By parking in a private car park that has correct signage, a driver is agreeing to a contract according to that signage. But the registered keeper is not necessarily the driver, and this is a complete defence to this claim.

 

if any of you read my last post on this issue, you will know by now that, whether ASDA use a PPI or not, they will enforce the fines by ultimately passing them on to the disreputable DCA's that cause so much misery to people. Much as I would like to see the disabled spaces only used by disabled people, speaking as a disabled person, I cannot condone the use of these DCA's to enforce illegal penalties, and therefore feel that ASDA is going about this the wrong way.

 

As for towing vehicles to a different location, this raises many other issues, both legally and morally. If the person's vehicle is damaged in the towing it leaves the tow company and the store open to litigation for that damage. It is also an issue that, if the vehicle is removed without the required notice prior to being towed, it constitutes theft of the vehicle. And to remove it from the premises leaves the owner open to further penalties from government authority if the vehicle is not placed somewhere without parking restrictions.

 

There is no simple solution to the problem of abuse in private car parks. Except that done by the local tesco near where i live. They donated their car park to the county council, with an agreement that parking would be free for 3 hours. Thereafter, normal council parking charges would apply. Hence the council now control the disabled bays and have the legal power to fine abusers of disabled and chld spaces. I can't, however, see ASDA doing this.

 

Until such time as they can work out a morally appropriate way to deal with any abusers of their parking bays, I will be happy to advise anyone on the best course of action to avoid paying this illegal penalty, should they wish to do so.

[JonCris]

pin Whilst disagreeing with you I have not made any personal attack on you so the only person making an ass of themselves is you.

 

You say the pain comes & goes so you don't qualify for a badge - I think that tells us something about your 'disability'

 

Anyway pick a day to go shopping when it's gone away then you won't care who's parked where - will you

[JonCris]

Ok, with all the argument going on here it appears that most of you are losing sight of the original problem here.

 

Firstly, let me point out that I am disabled and use a wheelchair full time. I also have a 3yo son. This means that I get to use either disabled or parent and child spaces when I go shopping. But this is not the point.

 

The whole idea of ASDA fining people who abuse a parking syatem that has no basis in law, and is only regulated by a private company employed by ASDA, is not one that, as a disabled person, I can accept. Although I do think that able bodied people should not use the spaces provided by stores for the disabled, there is no law that states that they are not allowed to and can be fined for doing so. As this is a private car park, parking regulations do not apply, except those initiated by the landowner. And as such, any fines imposed by the company can only be recovered if they can prove without doubt that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the person who actually parked in contravention to their parking rules.

 

By parking in a private car park that has correct signage, a driver is agreeing to a contract according to that signage. But the registered keeper is not necessarily the driver, and this is a complete defence to this claim.

 

if any of you read my last post on this issue, you will know by now that, whether ASDA use a PPI or not, they will enforce the fines by ultimately passing them on to the disreputable DCA's that cause so much misery to people. Much as I would like to see the disabled spaces only used by disabled people, speaking as a disabled person, I cannot condone the use of these DCA's to enforce illegal penalties, and therefore feel that ASDA is going about this the wrong way.

 

As for towing vehicles to a different location, this raises many other issues, both legally and morally. If the person's vehicle is damaged in the towing it leaves the tow company and the store open to litigation for that damage. It is also an issue that, if the vehicle is removed without the required notice prior to being towed, it constitutes theft of the vehicle. And to remove it from the premises leaves the owner open to further penalties from government authority if the vehicle is not placed somewhere without parking restrictions.

 

There is no simple solution to the problem of abuse in private car parks. Except that done by the local tesco near where i live. They donated their car park to the county council, with an agreement that parking would be free for 3 hours. Thereafter, normal council parking charges would apply. Hence the council now control the disabled bays and have the legal power to fine abusers of disabled and chld spaces. I can't, however, see ASDA doing this.

 

Until such time as they can work out a morally appropriate way to deal with any abusers of their parking bays, I will be happy to advise anyone on the best course of action to avoid paying this illegal penalty, should they wish to do so.

 

Let me point out again. Even local authorities cannot 'fine' or 'penalise' drivers as parking has been decriminalised

 

Fine & Penalise imply statute neither of which apply to the local authority or the parking company & to use such terms renders their charge invalid as it has for a number of local authorities.

 

I say let them employ attendants full time who will advise shoppers where to park

[pin1onu]

You say the pain comes & goes so you don't qualify for a badge - I think that tells us something about your 'disability'

Actually it tells you very little. I know its not permanent at the moment and hopefully will never become so. Hoever it doesn't make it any less real when it occurs.

 

Anyway pick a day to go shopping when it's gone away then you won't care who's parked where - will you

And if the "flare-up" lasts 8 weeks like the last one did, what am I supposed to do?

 

But the idea of adjusting your routine is one I would suggest you and other disabled people use. I would suggest that you will find the disabled spaces available if you went late at night or early in the morning.

 

However enough of this "yours is bigger than mine".....

 

JC can I suggest we agree to disagree and get back to the original topic: ASDA and their methods.

 

As I've previously posted I support ASDA in the thinking behind the scheme but not the way they've implemented it. Crushers suggestion of patrolling the car park is certainly one way which would get my vote.

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Let me point out again. Even local authorities cannot 'fine' or 'penalise' drivers as parking has been decriminalised

 

Fine & Penalise imply statute neither of which apply to the local authority or the parking company & to use such terms renders their charge invalid as it has for a number of local authorities.

 

I say let them employ attendants full time who will advise shoppers where to park

 

Very true, but since most people adhere to the rules set out in council-run car parks it leads to the conclusion that the problem of abuse of disabled bays is not as prevalent in coucil-run car parks as it is in supermarket carparks. Therefore, assignment of the supermarket car park to the local authority would solve the problem to a large degree. However, this is still not a solution to the problem in the real world, only in theory, except in a few exceptional cases.

 

As for parking attendants, they would be open to abuse from the park-anywhere-i-want brigade for telling them they can't park there. Would you like to do that job? Because I know i wouldn't.

[seanamarts]

 

As for parking attendants, they would be open to abuse from the park-anywhere-i-want brigade for telling them they can't park there. Would you like to do that job? Because I know i wouldn't.

perhaps employ a disabled person to do this job, especially one who is wheelchair bound, may make them sit up and think abit

[ShortlyTdwarf]

perhaps employ a disabled person to do this job, especially one who is wheelchair bound, may make them sit up and think abit

 

I AM wheelchair bound, and have objected on more than one occasion to people who have parked in the last disabled space available when i am in need of it. Only on one occasion has the person moved their car. Most people just tell me to f*** off and walk away laughing. And one actually smashed my door mirror off for asking him to move.

 

These people don't scare me, I was a soldier for 13 years, and have seen more than they could believe, but what good would a disabled person be in trying to get people like that to park somewhere else?

[MikeBigg]

I think ASDA did try the wardens thing - without complete success.

 

Another approach may be to have posts in the ground which can be lowered and raised and have a warden allowing people to use a space by lowering it when a qualifying person drives up to park.

 

I like the idea of bringing it under council / RTA control. Have proper defined charges and procedures backed by law so everyone knows where they stand.

 

Only trouble is the councils would mess it up.

 

Mike