nightclub

[khoshtip_uk]

Hello,

Sorry if this sounds like stupid question but

I was asked to leave nightclub because a member of staff who works in the bar claims that I had touched her, I believe I have never done such thing,

Will I have right to ask the manger to check the CCTV?Can they ask anyone to leave ?

I have been to this bar for past 5years and it’s my favourite bar I never done such stupid thing over there.

I feel I have been a victim of hate crime.

Thanks

[gyzmo]

You would have to prove that either

1. You and the club had a contract, and a term of that contract was breached

2. That an unlawful act was carried out

 

In both cases, it is probably a no-win for you. If she is claiming something falsely, you could claim defamation (slander or whatever), but persoanlly i would wonder what else she may say.

 

Find another club.

[GlasweJen]

Sorry when I worked in a club we could have anyone put out for anything from being abusive towards the staff to looking too drunk.

 

Checking the CCTV might not get you anywhere, the chances of the cameras being pointed at you when it happened are slim, a little known fact is that the cameras in most nightclubs are pointed towards the tills and not the people.

 

I think your best bet is to find another nightclub.

[khoshtip_uk]

Thanks for your advice,

it looks like they could kick anyone out!

[blitz]

They can, but you do have to remember that they obviously want to keep people who haven't done anything wrong in as its money. It might have been a misunderstanding or accident (even if you didn't realise).

Probably not worth pursuing if your not barred.

[khoshtip_uk]

what I meant was that basically if one member of staff doesnt like your act or whatsoever he or she can make lies and try to get you out,its not a big deal for them!

[GlasweJen]

Yeah the problem with clubs is that they're dark. We would tell the steward that a tall guy with blonde hair and a pink shirt done x, y or z and then we'd see him 15 minutes later. We'd ask the steward what happened and he'd be like oops i just kicked the wrong guy out, it does happen I'm afraid. If you're not barred it probably isn't an issue, and bar staff at clubs don't last long anyway. If this girl makes these allegations as a habit she'll be out the door pretty soon.

 

Khoshtip - it's never good to make allegations, the managers get tired if staff can't handle that sort of stuff as it sort of comes with the job. You'll see on promotional flyers ROAR and it will say Rights of Admission Reserved at the door which basically means if we don't like you then tough. It's carp but it happens.

[jonnythehorse]

this happened to me and a mate in a nightclub and as we left asked them to check cctv and we were seen to be the innocents so it mite be worth going there and asking them to check it out you have nothing to lose

[fbnts]

I help out at a nightclub and yes unfortunately, sometimes the wrong person does get ejected. Its very rare someone is barred unless it was serious or, more often than not, they get lippy and violent with door staff.

 

I would contact the manager during the day and just explain what happened (be polite and not obnoxious) explain that you did not think that you did anything wrong.

 

Chances are he/she would just say sorry for the inconvenience and basically welcome you back.

 

The worst thing that anyone can do after being ejected or turned away from the door is to argue with doorstaff or get "high and mighty" with the manager. Once a decision is made there is practically no chance they will change their mind.

 

At the end of the day, like it has been pointed out about, Right of Admission is Reserved and the manager/door staff are there to (hopefully) create a safe environment, its just unfortunate they get it wrong sometimes.

 

Tom

[khoshtip_uk]

I went there again ! and he asked me to leave, would I be able to claim the money which I spent on buying the drinks from there on those days and the entry ticket back ?

Thanks

[fbnts]

Hi,

 

That's a shame. What exactly did he say?

 

I wouldn't have thought you could claim anything back - like its been said above, they reserve the right to refuse entry.

 

The only thing I think you could do is write to him explaining what happened and protest your innocence and asking him for a written account of what is alleged. You may be able to go down the lines of Data Protection Subject Access Request for all personal data held on their CCTV (Ie a copy of the video with you on it).

You may also be able to include reference to the fact that you believe that the allegations are false and that you are looking into legal action for Slander/Defamation of Character.

 

But obviously any action like this could also take the oposite effect and get his back up.

 

If you don't intend on going back then you could just "rustle feathers" but if you are trying to "clear your name" so you can start going back in then just a polite letter putting your side across and politely asking the actual circumstances as you believe its a case of mistaken identify.

 

Tom

[MARTIN3030]

Most of the answers here should give you some insight.

You have to weigh up the balace of the objectives that you are trying to achieve.

If you are trying to get justice because you were genuinely wronged then of course there are things you can do.

Under the data protection act you are entitled to request any recorded images or stills that they have,in a format of your choice.The laws require that recorded film and stills are stored and available if need be for up to 28 days.

An accusation of this sort of thing is potentially serious in fact a conviction would require a person found guilty to sign the sex offenders register,which is very scary...

In the past innocently pinching someones bum was something that happened every weekend in most town centre bars....these days its not advisable to think about it...unless you are certain the other person is not going to complain.(I am not saying this was the case here just illustrating the point )

As has been said...the management of any business whether it be a night club or any other place can exercise discretion on who they wish to serve or not without good reason.

Where there can be seen that those reasons contravene sex discrimination laws and equal right etc then its much easier to take action if you feel genuinely aggrieved.

Many areas now operate a pub/clubwatch system and the dangers are that if you cause trouble for one...then you can be seen as trouble by the others.Certainly licencees discuss things like this when they get together.

I would be inclined to find another club as others have said.I think you will find if you keep out of this place for a few months then you will probably be ok to go back there once the dust has settled.

I do have a little experience here as someone also who has worked in town centre bars and clubs for 20 odd years.

[khoshtip_uk]

Hi,

 

That's a shame. What exactly did he say?

 

I wouldn't have thought you could claim anything back - like its been said above, they reserve the right to refuse entry.

 

The only thing I think you could do is write to him explaining what happened and protest your innocence and asking him for a written account of what is alleged. You may be able to go down the lines of Data Protection Subject Access Request for all personal data held on their CCTV (Ie a copy of the video with you on it).

Tom

 

First time this happened at 3am when everyone had to leave !! a member of staff came to me and told me that I have done something wrong like touched someone who works in the bar or herself..etc and a bodyguard asked me to apology or leave !! I said I don’t mind to apology but I have done nothing like this I have been here for too long etc ...

He asked me to leave and I left kindly ......

Next time same girl saw me in there, she spoke to the assistant manager who was not aware of the case, he came to me and tried to be clever (he told me he has previously told me that I shouldn’t be here!! I’m out permanently! I told him that this has never happened I would like to talk to general manager (i knew general manager lil bit, I know all past manager who worked there.) I kindly left the club and had a chat with general manager outside club explained him what has happened and told him that I don’t mind staying away for few weeks but I would like him to kindly check cctv for me. He said that’s fine just give him some time... following week I just got in the club (i didn’t see general manager around there ! otherwise I would have asked him whether he has checked the cctv for me or not) 30minutes later same assistant manager saw me and asked me to leave and I left, while out there I saw them both and had quick chat but he said since assistant manager thinks I shouldn’t be here he cant do much about it, I actually never been given right excuse for this!!

 

 

If I ak for cctv stuff, will they have to provide me what they have for past 28 days or all of what they have from first day I have gone there?

Do they have to go through all cctv images? This looks like very lengthy process for them. And what if they found that I have done something wrong? (i don’t believe they can find such proof)

 

What if I request a copy of cctv and being found innocent? Will they have to let me in?

 

When you say “But obviously any action like this could also take the oposite effect and get his back up.”

 

What’s the worst think could happen? (if they find out that I have done something wrong) ? I mean honestly why would I touch an ugly girl who is working over in the bar and that’s gone be in front of everyone 2. Why would she keep it quite and start complaining after 3am ?

Assistan manager is too immature and young thats all. Just human being sometime they don’t like each other.

I have tried other places in meanwhile but I’m not having nice time out there!!

 

if i found innocent can i complain about assistant managers wrong allegation? he also said that he has checked cctv,...

 

thank you

[Bigmac versus]

TBH if it were me I wouldnt be back and I would have said so at the time, people who make false allegations usually get caught but its the unfairness of it that gets you.

Its the best you have for now.

Forget the place and discover somewhere else.

[MARTIN3030]

The data protection act also affords some rights to data controllers,or certainly guidelines in their duties to uphold it.Your request must be specific and clear.

So in your case you would need to say...I was in the club between 1 and 2am on 20th August 2007 (or whatever)....I am aware that you will have images takes by your cctv system.....bla bla bla.

They have the usual 40 days to provide any but only images which clearly show you and no one else.

They are not required to comply if you cannot give them specific dates and times.

It is very costly and time consuming to take single images that need black out of the surrounding figures so the club depending on their systems could apply to the IC for further time.In any even it is likely to be done by an outside firm.Make no mistake they would not be happy at all with this but of course it is your right.

I think also its worth mentioning that Managers and Assistant managers do not like to show weakness in Nightclubs....my guess is that to go back on his decision to allow you in would not bode well with the rest of the staff who are undoubtably well aware of all this..it is an environment that differs so much from somewhere else where it may be forgotten quickly.

Then there is the issue of the customer who you are alleged to have touched.

It may well be the case that she has threatened to report it to the Police if they did not move you on...in any event this will have had to be logged in the clubs incident book, making a complaint still possible later.

Nightclub Managers do not relish any Police involvements ...or certainly ones that centre around complaints....I dont need to tell you this we all know it.

So again, think carefully what it is that you want at the end of the day.There are always two ways to go about anything.....in your case it may be best to listen to what others have said here already.

[khoshtip_uk]

I got some new information today, I was passing by the club and had a quick chat with manager I asked him about what assistant manager is saying whether he is relying on cctv or what other member of staff have told him? He said that he is relying on what other girls have said; basically 2 members of staff have told him that I have hold both of them with both hands!! He also agreed that it’s a bit odd for them to complain at 3 am if I have done this before then!! He is going to ask them and find out why they didn’t call bodyguard straight sway for this!! (He knows that I have a point there), but he cant let me in at least for next few weeks etc. He also said that CCTV doesn’t necessary image people who are there its mainly for cashiers

[GlasweJen]

Unfortunately it's true that nightclubs internal cameras tend to be set towards the tills, this is because of high staff turnover and it's very easy to trick the system so that you can till dip - seen so many people fired for this it's unreal.

 

The fact the manager is letting his assistant make the decisions is mental and I question that. Also having been assaulted twice at work I can assure you that although clubs are meant to document incidents, unless the staff member is truly injured and needs a hospital visit this wont happen as they incur fines if their incident log contains too much. They also pay fines whenever there is a police visit and when there is need to call ambulances.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok its reasonable to assume that cameras are sited in and around bar areas,however more and more the licensing authorities (and this is now managed by councils) demand that CCTV is adequate and provides good overall coverage.

For anyone interested there are quite strict guidelines set out in the data protection act for CCTV operations.

here are some of them;

1.Cameras and ancilliary equipment must be in good working order and record clear intelligable images.

(So if your local has a camera hanging off its bracket its not legal)

2.Notices should be posted in close proximity to each recording device advising that recording is in progress

The notices should provide details including the name and contact numbers of the data controllers who are operating the systems.

 

How many bars/clubs and other places do you know who are flouting these rules ?

Additionally there are more restrictions in place for complex systems that use motorised cameras.

 

 

Ok this is your ace card if you want to play it.

 

There is a requirement to have cameras on main entrance and exit doors.

You can request the images from the night in question for your own use under the Data Protection Act.

Of course it proves nothing in your case...but may swing their decision to ban you.

It will be hassle for them to provide this....but dont tell them I told you !!!

 

Although I install CCTV myself I believe that as well as providing an element of safety and security,it should be done so in a way that can afford people to rely on it later for their own advantage in circumstances that they need it themselves.

 

One such case was the Dirty petrol fiasco with Tesco and Morrisons supermarkets.

Both agreed to entertain claims if customers could provide receipts to show they purchased their petrol there.

How many people keep these ?

Those who purchased by credit or debit card were of course fortunate because they could show proof.

Those who paid by cash and threw away or did not take a receipt could not.

Both stores employ sophisticated forecourt cctv recongnition systems....the number plates are clearly scanned and logged.

Therefore I was able to help 5 people get their claims sorted.In the case of Tesco..3 claims were authorised on the threat to issue a dpa request for forecourt stills.

The other 2 Morrisons ones were authorised shortly after dpa requests were made.

So there is both good and bad with CCTV....it should never be seen as a big brother to catch you out....it can also work in your favour too !!!

[shanty]

OP-why are you so keen to get back into this club.It does not seem wise.

[shanty]

What if you got back in,then they accused you of something worse.

[khoshtip_uk]

I have been there for long...Long... and had good days over there J !, even the general manager +bodyguards are still nice its just the assistant manager, apparently once one of them disagrees with you the rest have to obey him/her ..

Lets say there is nothing recorded against me on cctv, will girls still be able to complain and take me to court just because they are 2 and I was on my own?

I’m pretty sure that there is nothing recorded against me on cctvs but still not convinced that requesting those images will soften them! Unless I could legally push /threaten the assistant manager. (once he told me that he has checked cctv himself and seen me touching them , but this looks like lie now, will this make any difference?)

[shanty]

What do you mean you are "pretty sure?"

[khoshtip_uk]

I'm Sure*