I've received a letter inviting me to interview under caution about an over payment of HB from 2015.

The amount of the overpayment is £2400. I have been paying this back. I stupidly thought that when you renew tax credits with p60 info they share the information with all relevant authorities. After googling interviews under caution I've convinced myself I'm going to prison and will lose my job.

Any advice would be much appreciated I have contacted the CAB and am waiting for a solicitor to contact me back. I'm not sure if I should be doing something in the mean time? I literally can't eat, sleep or stop crying.

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I think it's highly unlikely you'll go to prison for that amount and a simple misunderstanding, please stop tormenting yourself with that. You will need to pay the money back, I'll leave it to people who know more than I do to tell you how it's likely to be paid back.

The forum advisers should be along over the course of the day, please bear with us until they're able to get here.

We have lots of thread from people who have been in your situation, please have a read around the forum for similar titles.

My best, HB

Perhaps if you could explain your circumstances and how the over payment came about Jellyfish321 to enable advisers to give the best and correct advice on how to deal with this.

Regards

Andy

Thank you for replying.

It was an overpayment due to a payrise, I informed tax credits believing they shared the information.

I have been repaying the over payment, I think around £400ish has been paid back.

You will not go to prison for that amount. End of.

The iuc is your chance to give your account of what happened. For that amount it would not shock me if you were offered an administrative penalty instead of court.

I assume the iuc is at DWP offices?

Housing Benefit is administered through the individual local authorities. The DWP (Jobcentre) information share with them when they need to but they have nothing to do with the administration of Housing Benefit.

As claimants are migrated across to Universal Credit (fully administered at the Jobcentre) then the local authority benefit teams will shrink substantially as they will only be dealing with Council Tax Reduction.

I would reiterate the other mods reassurances to the OP that they will not go to jail for this, nor is he/she likely to lose their job!

You said that you assumed that your information was being passed across to Housing Benefit by Tax Credits. That is not an unreasonable assumption to make because as I already stated, these agencies do information share amongst themselves. Indeed you will consent to them doing so when you submit an application for benefit.

Please print out the following link to show to the officer who will interview you.

http://revenuebenefits.org.uk/blog/tax-credits-share-data-electronically-with-housing-benefit-council-tax-bene

It confirms the same albeit with some technical lingo

Benefit claimants generally run the risk of jail when they intentionally try to cheat the system - and even then this penalty is rarely resorted to.

http://benefitfraud.org.uk/prosecuting-sentencing-benefit-fraud/index.html

(In spite of the stats I have just shared, I am NOT encouraging all and sundry to go out and commit benefit fraud!)

Whilst it is the case that these agencies can and do talk to one another, it seems in this case that they did not.

I suspect your local authority is calling you in under caution because it is simpler to call you in under caution than to call you in for a general chat and then decide that they want to call you back in for an interview under caution.

Please bear in mind that benefits claimants are usually warned to update the relevant agency when they have a change in circumstances. I am going to assume that you have received letters in the past about your Housing Benefit?

Have they ever reminded you that you must inform them of any changes in circumstances?

If such correspondence fails to remind you of this, then it is unreasonable for them to use this against you. Though even if such correspondence did tell you that you had to keep them informed of a change in circumstances then try not to worry about based on what I talked about earlier.

You say that you are already paying back the over-payment. This is a good thing because you are already taking a step to remedy the situation. Though, if Housing Benefit determines that the over payment is due to their own error - maybe Tax Credits did inform them about your change in circumstances and in turn, Housing Benefit failed to adjust your payments - then you have an argument that they should not recover the over payment at all - or at the least, on a repayment plan that suits you.

Whilst your local authority continues to recover the debt from you, they should not do so at a rate that will cause you financial hardship. If your current repayment rate is causing you difficulties then you should ask them to adjust the rate of repayment.

A financial penalty can be imposed in these cases but they are generally imposed on people who made incorrect statements or were negligent (careless) when providing information about their circumstances. I would say that neither applies to you but you'll have to see how things go on the day.

In your case, you just assumed that there was information sharing between the different agencies and I will reiterate yet again, it is not an unreasonable assumption to have made.

During your interview try not to avoid any questions. If you do not understand the question then ask the officer to repeat it instead of trying to guess the answer.

It's better that you talked to us than just panicking about the words 'interview under caution'. Tons of people have had those letters yet their individual circumstances are quite different.

I hope I have been able to give you some reassurance but as I understand your case, I think you got your knickers into a twist over nothing.

DWP investigate HB fraud.. the councils administer the benefit.

Sorry, i dashed that off earlier ^^

Tax credits only tell the councils the amount of your tax credit awards and not your income details.

As regards calling the o/p in for a chat prior to IUC, that simply would not happen- PACE requires a caution to be put when questioning someone about their involvement in any alleged offence.

A penalty can be applied even if there wasn't any deliberate intent.

Had an housing overpayment myself. As long as the council can see is was not a deliberate act they allow you to set up an option to pay it back, Myself set up a standing order for weekly payment over 12 months.

Hey Shoelover,

I just want to revisit what I said in case it looked like I was giving out bad advice!

HB fraud was investigated by local authorities. It migrated over to DWP in the last couple of years. I am sorry I never drew the distinction.

I referred to an IT project called ATLAS. It begun in 2011 and the initial idea was for it to share tax credit award information with local authorities. The next phase was meant to provide real time information about earnings.

If 6 years on, it has failed to do that, it helps me realise why Universal Credit is so behind in it's implementation.

Thanks for correcting me re:my point about iuc. I was on JSA back in 2012 and was called in to explain a discrepancy. They had said that I had flagged that I was now in a job). I was not called in under iuc so I assumed that it was not always the first step the Jobcentre takes.

As OP is over £2,000 then an IUC is generally the first port of call.

Google DWP fraud penalty or DWP fraud policy.

Thank you for all your replies.

I really didn't realise (stupidly) how serious this is.

If convicted I will lose my job, ironically putting me back into the benefits system I've worked so hard to get out of.

I'll keep you updated on what happens over the next few weeks / months.

Thanks again for all the advice.

For the amount you mention, it's likely that you will be offered a penalty instead of court

Quick update.

I've had the dreaded interview, wasn't as bad as I had expected, solicitor thinks at worst it will be a penalty so I shall wait and see.

That's encouraging, JF. Please let us know how you get on.

HB

Hey Shoelover,

 

I just want to revisit what I said in case it looked like I was giving out bad advice!

 

HB fraud was investigated by local authorities. It migrated over to DWP in the last couple of years. I am sorry I never drew the distinction.

 

I referred to an IT project called ATLAS. It begun in 2011 and the initial idea was for it to share tax credit award information with local authorities. The next phase was meant to provide real time information about earnings.

 

If 6 years on, it has failed to do that, it helps me realise why Universal Credit is so behind in it's implementation.

 

Thanks for correcting me re:my point about iuc. I was on JSA back in 2012 and was called in to explain a discrepancy. They had said that I had flagged that I was now in a job). I was not called in under iuc so I assumed that it was not always the first step the Jobcentre takes.

Hi. Sorry just saw this.

ATLAS only shares information about the tax credit amounts and not other circumstances. This rests with the clm't.

IUC's are only conducted by criminal investigators and it sounds as if you were seen by compliance. The iuc letters are very clear about it being an iuc so people know what to expect.

Hey Shoelover,

I want to disagree about your point on ATLAS. Real Time Information sharing has kicked in!

This is the basis under which Universal Credit works. HMRC will see what an employer is paying an employee, adjust the figure for student loan repayments, income tax, NI contributions etc. then pass the earnings data across to DWP. UC rectifies the limitation with the legacy benefits.

I cannot see how Real Time Information is in place for Universal Credit claimants but that meanwhile for non UC claims that HMRC refuses to information share with Local Authorities and DWP.

I don't have the article in front of me right now but I will source some info from any of the above bodies to confirm that can and do share real time information amongst themselves.

Though, I agree with you, given the OP is on a legacy benefit, the burden falls on them to inform their LA, DWP etc. of a change in circumstances.

Thanks for confirming the difference between compliance and IUC. I never drew a distinction. When you word IUC's as being conducted by criminal investigators and the letter being clear about an IUC, I now appreciate why people seem to find the letter so scary.

My benefit advisor told me they only use rti for claimants as part of data matching and every month they match a few claims. She sympathised with me when i told her it's a pain to keep coming in all the time with my wage slips. i have to keep doing this until i'm informed i no longer need to.

My benefit advisor told me they only use rti for claimants as part of data matching and every month they match a few claims. She sympathised with me when i told her it's a pain to keep coming in all the time with my wage slips. i have to keep doing this until i'm informed i no longer need to.

RTI is used more widely now but you are obliged to report changes in your circumstances as soon as you can and certainly within 28 days.

My benefit advisor told me they only use rti for claimants as part of data matching and every month they match a few claims. She sympathised with me when i told her it's a pain to keep coming in all the time with my wage slips. i have to keep doing this until i'm informed i no longer need to.

Can they not accept them by e-mail?

My friend was saying it is a pain too.

i don't trust it, i like to see them photocopy my wage slip and i receive a detailed receipt for it, that way if i ever get accused of failing to notify i can laugh in their face whilst showing them my receipt.

HMRC is using RTI during tax credits renewals to pre-empt overpayments and reduce error and fraud. It is estimated this will save £630 million between 2014-15 and 2016-17. RTI data is also supporting compliance checks against various risk categories, such as undeclared partner and full time non-advanced education.

Hi, just a quick update to let you all know that I received a letter from the DWP informing me that the my case regarding my HB overpayment has now been closed and no further action will be taken.

Do I assume I won't be getting a penalty of some sort? Or will that happen further down the line?

Many thanks

Isn't the letter self-explanatory?

Contact the DWP to clarify, if you like.

Nothing else should happen otherwise they wouldn't have said no further action. From other posts people have been sent a letter inviting them to attend an administrative penalty meeting after their IUC. Looks like you will just have to repay it back.