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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
    • Steam is still needed in many industries, but much of it is still made with fossil fuels.View the full article
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel Force fail to deliver , refuse refund***Resolved***


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At the beginning of February I went to Grand Canaria for a winter break . The problem was I forgot one of my prescription medications.

My son immediately packed the missing medication ( a control for high blood pressure ) in a jiffy bag and went to local post office and asked for quickest method to get the package to me , telling the clerk exactly what was in the package .

The Post Office counter clerk suggested Parcel Force Global Express for the sum of £47 ( for a small jiffy bag ! )

 

He duly filled in the dispatch form clearly marking it “medication “

The package was accepted , and the clerk said the package should arrive in 48 hrs ( posted on Monday , arriving Wednesday morning )

 

At no time was any mention made of possible delays due to customs etc .

 

Following tracking ,I saw the package arrive at the “clearance depot “ Wednesday morning , and there it sat , until it was eventually delivered to the hotel the following Monday , whilst I might add still showing in transit ,even when we arrived home a week later , it was still in transit ! though I had possession of the package

As you might expect we submitted a claim for refund , and as you might expect it was refused .

 

Citing ,

A/ Medication excluded

B/ not their fault , customs delay

 

The only time medication is mentioned in exclusions , is under perishable goods , the medication has a shelf life of over 2 years .

I repeat , no mention was made of any possible delay due to customs and content of package

 

Simply , do I send a LBA , giving them ie Parcel Force AND their agent the Post Office 14 days to cough up , or without further reference to them , go to small claims procedure ?

Edited by dx100uk
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So I understand that the delivery was made – but it was made late by a number of days. Is this correct?

 

An are you aware of any guarantee contained in their contract which promises you the return of your money if they do not deliver within the scheduled time?

 

Did you suffer any particular losses as a result of the late delivery?

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So I understand that the delivery was made – but it was made late by a number of days. Is this correct? Yes , but around 5 days late

 

An are you aware of any guarantee contained in their contract which promises you the return of your money if they do not deliver within the scheduled time? T&Cs tight many exclusions , but there is a refund proceedure , bottom line is though , what ever the problem cousing delay , not their problem, None of which was exlplained when dispatching the package

Did you suffer any particular losses as a result of the late delivery? Visit to hotel Doc for prescription €40. Meds €6.80 which TBH is my fault for forgetting meds

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Thank you. So you did actually have a delivery so I don't think you would be entitled to claim a full refund for that. On the other hand, I do think that you would be able to claim the difference between the express delivery – £47 and the cost of delivery which arrived five days later.

 

You need to discover what their tariffs are.

 

It is clear that they are in breach of contract. I don't think you need to worry about the exclusions because they did not affect the risk. You spent €6.80 on meds which you did actually have. On the other hand I think that you can claim for the doctor's visit which of course was unnecessary and was only made necessary because of the breach of contract.

 

Therefore I think that you can claim for the difference in the delivery cost plus the cost of the doctor's visit. Also, I would try making a nominal claim for the time which she spent having to visit the doctor instead of enjoying a holiday. I would keep this to a modest amount – not more than £50.

 

I would set it all out in a clear itemised letter together with any bills and send to them as a letter of claim and give them 14 days.

 

Only do this if you are prepared to go ahead. I predict that they will attempt to defend and they will send you some massive defence document – and they will eventually put up their hands. You then recover your losses plus the claim fee. There is an outside chance that they may want to go to court – but I expect that you will win although you may have difficulty asserting the value of your lost time. However, you may as well try it out. They are unlikely to want to go to the expense of turning up at your local court simply to save 50 quid.

 

Please keep us informed as to how it goes

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I An acquaintance of mine , posted this on another forum ( caravanning)

He deals with shipping and logistics , it is interesting , even though it refers to medication posted as opposed to being couriered , Taking Parcel Force to be couriers and not postal carriers .

If it is taken at its literal meaning , the Post Office counter clerk should never have accepted the package for Parcel Force to transport

So if it gets to County Court , I will name Jointly , Parcel Force and Post Office Counters

 

 

 

Can one send special medication between Spain and another country by mail?

Spanish legislation does not allow the shipping of medication by mail. In accordance with Article 73 of Law 29/2006 of July 26th, for guarantees and rational use of medication and sanitary products, only laboratories and distribution entities that meet the established legal requirements are able to export medication. Any other entity or individual is not allowed to send medication through packaged mail because they are unable to guarantee the quality and security of the products.

Can an individual receive medication in Spain from another country by mail?

Article 72 of the aforementioned Law 29 of July 26th, 2009 and implementing regulations establish that only pharmaceutical laboratories can import medication. Therefore, individuals outside of the country, cannot send medicines because it is not possible to guarantee their quality and security.

Can an individual bring his/her necessary medication to their destination in Spain?

Article 74 of Law 29/2006 of July 26th states that: "medication that accompanies travelers following a medical treatment is excluded from the established protocols in the previous articles". Thus, in order to avoid problems with the Spanish customs office, it is recommended that the patient traveling with medication to Spain brings a doctor’s prescription/medical report that justifies the treatment. However, one should consider the previously stated regulations of the country of destination.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: In the case of medicines containing narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances, patients should send inquiries to the Spanish Agency of Drugs and Health Products in order to receive a permit to travel with their medication. Interested parties can direct themselves to the following email address: [email protected]

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I An acquaintance of mine , posted this on another forum ( caravanning)

He deals with shipping and logistics , it is interesting , even though it refers to medication posted as opposed to being couriered , Taking Parcel Force to be couriers and not postal carriers .

If it is taken at its literal meaning , the Post Office counter clerk should never have accepted the package for Parcel Force to transport

So if it gets to County Court , I will name Jointly , Parcel Force and Post Office Counters

 

 

 

Can one send special medication between Spain and another country by mail?

Spanish legislation does not allow the shipping of medication by mail. In accordance with Article 73 of Law 29/2006 of July 26th, for guarantees and rational use of medication and sanitary products, only laboratories and distribution entities that meet the established legal requirements are able to export medication. Any other entity or individual is not allowed to send medication through packaged mail because they are unable to guarantee the quality and security of the products.

Can an individual receive medication in Spain from another country by mail?

Article 72 of the aforementioned Law 29 of July 26th, 2009 and implementing regulations establish that only pharmaceutical laboratories can import medication. Therefore, individuals outside of the country, cannot send medicines because it is not possible to guarantee their quality and security.

Can an individual bring his/her necessary medication to their destination in Spain?

Article 74 of Law 29/2006 of July 26th states that: "medication that accompanies travelers following a medical treatment is excluded from the established protocols in the previous articles". Thus, in order to avoid problems with the Spanish customs office, it is recommended that the patient traveling with medication to Spain brings a doctor’s prescription/medical report that justifies the treatment. However, one should consider the previously stated regulations of the country of destination.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: In the case of medicines containing narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances, patients should send inquiries to the Spanish Agency of Drugs and Health Products in order to receive a permit to travel with their medication. Interested parties can direct themselves to the following email address: [email protected]

 

Suspected as much. That hindsight really would have helped!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well done sparkeyrjp...thread title amended to reflect the outcome.

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