Unenforceable agreements under the Consumer Credit Act

[Stub001]

(Quite long I know but please stick with it...could open up a new area for claims...)

 

Hi all. Great site...helped girlfriend claim back £830 from Lloyds TSB and just issued another claim against them today for £490...thanks for all the help/templates/advice. Got an unusual (I think) query this time...

 

Was checking the national debt line site back in April and came across their letters template link (National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice). 2/3rds down the list there is a CCA letter that you can use to request a copy of a credit agreement from your creditors under the CCA (Sections 77-79)...what is interesting about this is that it states that "creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act." This is relevant for my girlfriend as she thought she had come to the end of the term of the loan only to be told that 4 instalments were still outstanding. She has been switched from one loan product to another during the loan term and by Lloyds own admittance is on an "old-style" loan. She sent the CCA letter in April and has heard nothing since...no agreement, no chasers for the money, nothing. Lloyds have however starting to charge interest on the outstanding balance without any notification. Three questions:

 

1) Is the national debtline letter correct?

2) If so, does unenforceable mean that my girlfriend can write to Lloyds to get them to scrub off the outstanding amount?

3) Is Lloyds practice of charging interest in this manner legal (particularly given that they are unable to provide a copy of the credit agreement)?

 

Any views/advice/experiences would be most welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

Stuart

[alexifa]

There has been lots of discussion on this topic. If you request a copy of the credit agreement under the CCA, the lender has 12 working days to supply a copy. After 12 working days the agreement is unenforceable without a court order until the agreement is produced. After 30 days, if the agreement has not been produced the lender has committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act.

When you send a request for a copy you must send £1 (the statutory fee). A letter to send is as follows.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 50879182

Dear Sir

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. You have now failed to supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement for the alleged “debt” you are trying to enforce. This request was sent on 18/08/2006 together with the statutory fee of £1.00.

 

I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

You are reminded that you were obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

I will therefore no longer be making payments against this "debt" as it is unenforceable. I now consider the matter closed and no further correspondence regarding payment will be entered into. If you persist on pursuing payment you will have left me no choice but to report this matter to Trading Standards

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

[Stub001]

Brilliant, thank-you. The original letter was sent in April with no reply so well over the 30 days. No payments have been made since March as that was the original date my girlfriend understood the loan to finish. She has received no chasers whatsoever but they have recently started to charge interest....hmmmm. Is that legal to do so?

[Bigmac versus]

Yes If You Have Told Them The Debt Is In Dispute.

[Stub001]

Hi. Can you explain please? It is legal for Lloyds to charge interest or illegal?

 

Thanks.

 

Stuart

[jannercobbler]

They cannot add interest if the amount is in dispute.

 

Also as they have commited a criminal offence by not Supplying the CCA documents you can with hold payments and also report them to the Trading Standards Office.

 

Send this letter to TS amend as needed.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to complain about a company (name of Company), whose business address is (Business address). This company have been contacting me in order to recover a debt which I do not acknowledge to them.

 

On (Date) I wrote to (Company) requesting a copy of the original signed credit agreement in respect of an alleged debt this company had been contacting me about.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within s. 77 (1) and s. 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974. I enclosed the statutory amount of £1 (by Cheque) as payment.

 

(Company) are obliged to supply these documents, whether they are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

I believe this company have now committed a criminal offence as they have failed to provide a copy of the original signed credit agreement or default notice and have been in default for more than one month since the initial 12 working days allowable under the above mentioned legislation expired.

 

A default has been recorded on my credit file in respect to this matter and I would like it removed as I believe it has been applied unlawfully. Also I believe that (Company) will continue to pursue me both by telephone and letter to repay any alleged debt.

 

I have written to them asking them to remove this default and to confirm to me that I owe them no money. I would like you to investigate this company regarding this matter and take action against them. I am of the opinion that they are unfit to hold a consumer credit license.

 

I have included a copy of the CCA request sent to (Company) on 2nd August 2006 and also a copy of the complaint / non compliance letter I sent to them on 9th October 2006.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

HTH

 

Paul

[gemster]

Hi - does this apply to business accounts - my husband and I tried to get a business loan with RBS - long story and they messed up the entire application (although we did sign personal guarantees), causing us severe financial problems, by this point they then actually applied for the loan which of course was refused as we'd had returns, etc.

 

We seriously complained and they just gave us the loan amount, via some dodgy account which is in our personal names!. We have not signed any loan agreement, we don't know what the term of the loan, the actual amount we are supposed to pay per month, we don't know what the apr is anything!. By the time the money came through it could not save the business and we are worried they are going to come and try to take us personally.

 

I've sent the first letter and of course they have ignored it - because there is no loan agreement - do you think I should send the letter at the top of this thread?.

 

thanks

[lookinforinfo]

In answer to your questions on the first post.

 

1] Yes they are right.

 

2] No. And the debt is only unenforceable until they produce the original application.

Because of their delay, even if they do find it, before they can start to make

you pay the debt, they will have to apply to a judge to get their permission,

explain why they broke the law etc etc. It may be that they have indeed found

the form, but have decided against applying to the Court because they broke the law. If you inform TS, then there would be no reason for them not to apply to have the loan reinstated [always assuming of course thst they have located the application]

 

3] No they cannot charge interest on the account as it is still in dispute. No doubt

you drew their attention to this in your letter of 9th October.

[lookinforinfo]

Gemster, you are hijacking Stub's thread. The letter that they sent is not the one

you need to send first. And by the sound of it, the loan may not be a business loan.

However you would have to exercise care since it may be that they will claim

that they lent the money to you on the strength of your personal guarantees

which they may call in.

Start up your own thread and write to the bank explaining that you will need a

copy of the loan as you will need it to complete your business accounts. Once

you have a copy, you will have a clearer picture of where you stand.

[Gazwegian]

Hi can anyone tell me if there have been any amendments to CCA 1974 in the CCA 2006 with regard to a debt collection agency committing an offence when failing to comply with a request for a credit agreement.

 

i.e. are they still committing an offence that can be reported if they fail to produce a copy of your original signed credit agreement.

 

Thanks

[granada]

Does a CCA apply to a bank?

[granada]

I wrote to Barclaycard on 30th July enclosing £1 asking for a copy of the CCA (recorded delivery) - it's now 20th August and haven't received a copy - how does not receiving a copy of this help me with my debt?

[dave_herts]

With the CCA, is it 12 days and 30 days (42 days) before a creditor has broken the law or does the 12 & 30 days run con-currently?

[babydoll0141917]

hi the 30 days doesnt matter any more..its now just 12 days for the creditor to go into default

[surfaceagentx20]

The offence aspects of ss 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 were repealed by Regulation 30, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, coming into effect 26 May 2008.

 

x20

[nduxy]

Hi, i must say its great reading you guy's experience, its helping me alot.

 

i too recently wrote to three banks enclosing £1 and requesting copy of my CCA.

 

one replied within 12 days saying they couldnt find a copy of my orginal CCA, but enclosed an unsigned copy. the other two banks have not replied yet.

 

what are my options? on this basis do any of the banks have the right to enforce the debt??

 

I would really apprciate a prompt reply!!!

 

Thanks Guys!!

[wendydt]

Hello I am totally new to this as a member but have been reading the threads and have done some of my own work following some of the sample letters that have been posted. I wrote to MBNA and Barclaycard and requested the

 

1. I require you to supply me with a true copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.78 (1) for running – account credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

I enclose a £1 cheque in payment of the statutory fee.

 

2. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law

Now both of these companies have not replied within the 12 days but MBNA sent me a letter stating that a restriction had been put on the account and that I was to send my credit card back (fine not a problem with that) but my thoughts are have they done this because I have asked for the true copy to be sent to me and they are unable to produce this. Does anyone have any thoughts and possibly help me out on this one not sure what to do now!!!!

 

 

[djgordyp]

Seeing as other pwoplw are hijacking this thread I thought I might as well jump on the bandwagon as well:)

 

Don't worry I will be adding to my own thread later.

 

To summerise my case. I received a reply from halifax complaint dept. on the 10th. They enclosed a single unsigned page which doesn't look like the agreement to me, Also enclosed was a letter which stated they believed that this fulfilled their obligations. The letter went on to explain that 'failure to communicate with appointed third parties' only applied to third parties appointed by a court. They also believe that Blair et el had dealt sympathetically with my case. If demanding immediate payment and then saying they were preparing to go to court is being sympathetic then I'd hate to think what they are like when they're not being sympathetic.

 

I'll post a link to my thread lter if your interested in reading it.

[cleo4patra]

I am new to this site but it is so helpful - I have just sent off a CCA to Preference Account (Now Home Shopping) (bank of scotland) does this make a difference if they have changed name??? the card name is the same but letterheads carry different name.

any advice?

[dollydimples]

hi there im new at this but i am starting to challenge mbna and barclays for unenforceable credit

[hollie-lou]

Hi All

 

I have been trying to find out information on what i need to do to claim back money which may be owed to me through finance not being enforcable, i have a secured loan through Welcome finance which was taken out before april 2007 and the loan was rewritten again after to increase the amount etc (all before 2007). What i need some help with is to know what i need to do to check if the loan is enforcable or not and whether it is worth persuing the company to get this loan closed etc. I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me!!!!!!

[citizenB]

Wendydt, dollydimples and Hollie-lou, you will get much more advice by starting your own threads.

[simongc]

can anyone help!!!, i have 5 credit cards i believe all 5 are unenforceable, the dca have passed them back to origanal lenders who have passed them on to different dca ,they are all standing firm on the issue, i have reported 2 of them to financial ombudsman, what is my next course of action??? anyone help please:)

[citizenB]

can anyone help!!!, i have 5 credit cards i believe all 5 are unenforceable, the dca have passed them back to origanal lenders who have passed them on to different dca ,they are all standing firm on the issue, i have reported 2 of them to financial ombudsman, what is my next course of action??? anyone help please:)

 

 

Hi simon, it might be best if you start your own thread, tell us a little bit more about what you have done so far and some one will pop in and help you out.

[hollie-lou]

i have but no one replies