Should have adjourned until the rep was available it was your right.

Bill

Should have adjourned until the rep was available it was your right.

 

Bill

Wasn't aware till after the facts first time for me this.....

Thats fine, do the notes anywhere make mention that you were asked if you wanted representation?

If you said yes or they did not mention it then use that as added grounds for appeal

Thats fine, do the notes anywhere make mention that you were asked if you wanted representation?

 

If you said yes or they did not mention it then use that as added grounds for appeal

Yes they asked and I said 'no' due to the fact I thought proceedings were still informal. I didn't know we could adjourn till after the meeting

So, can an employer dismiss you on medical grounds on 'perceived disability' one which doesnt exit outside of the Occupational Health nurses mind? Theres wear and tear in my knee, but nothing more than age and the deterioration has ceased between two MRI scans 18 months apart.

Can I argue that if that is the case, it leads my ex-employer to require vetting of all new employees ,which in its self is illegal on disability grounds?

Anyone?

Anyone?

You could appeal the termination in writing on grounds that at the very least there should have been and ergonomic work place assessment carried out by an external assessor (usually provided by access to work via DWP) this would have been conducted by a qualified occupational therapist/assessor who should assess your role, it's demands, it's mechanics, stresses on your system etc and then reviewed that against your medical diagnosis, prognosis and also a full functionality assessment which may include the assessor monitoring your condition and its effects upon you throughout a usual working day.

Depending on what that report said then if in your favour the company could and should then conduct an individualised risk assessment of the role, your conditions, the medical reports, the access to work report and the companies off health report.

I do not know of time limits to appeal terminations based on capability but there should be capability procedures in your staff handbook etc.

Sounds like a typical public sector Occ Health management fudge up of these things. Do you work for public sector or a very large organisation?

I would appeal straight away, learn the employee relations act, the employment act and the health and safety act, sounds like your Union guy was useless too.

You could appeal the termination in writing on grounds that at the very least there should have been and ergonomic work place assessment carried out by an external assessor (usually provided by access to work via DWP) this would have been conducted by a qualified occupational therapist/assessor who should assess your role, it's demands, it's mechanics, stresses on your system etc and then reviewed that against your medical diagnosis, prognosis and also a full functionality assessment which may include the assessor monitoring your condition and its effects upon you throughout a usual working day.

 

Depending on what that report said then if in your favour the company could and should then conduct an individualised risk assessment of the role, your conditions, the medical reports, the access to work report and the companies off health report.

 

I do not know of time limits to appeal terminations based on capability but there should be capability procedures in your staff handbook etc.

 

Sounds like a typical public sector Occ Health management fudge up of these things. Do you work for public sector or a very large organisation?

 

I would appeal straight away, learn the employee relations act, the employment act and the health and safety act, sounds like your Union guy was useless too.

Have you been pensioned or dismissed on grounds of capability.

Also if you have funds or union insurance that will pay for it lodge a claim at the ET for unfair dismissal and disability discrimination.

What matters with your disabities is the effect on you doing the job not what they perceive is the effect.

If it's a health and safety reason then this should have been properly assessed as outlined in my comment above.

You could appeal the termination in writing on grounds that at the very least there should have been and ergonomic work place assessment carried out by an external assessor (usually provided by access to work via DWP) this would have been conducted by a qualified occupational therapist/assessor who should assess your role, it's demands, it's mechanics, stresses on your system etc and then reviewed that against your medical diagnosis, prognosis and also a full functionality assessment which may include the assessor monitoring your condition and its effects upon you throughout a usual working day.

 

Depending on what that report said then if in your favour the company could and should then conduct an individualised risk assessment of the role, your conditions, the medical reports, the access to work report and the companies off health report.

 

I do not know of time limits to appeal terminations based on capability but there should be capability procedures in your staff handbook etc.

 

Sounds like a typical public sector Occ Health management fudge up of these things. Do you work for public sector or a very large organisation?

 

I would appeal straight away, learn the employee relations act, the employment act and the health and safety act, sounds like your Union guy was useless too.

Have you been pensioned or dismissed on grounds of capability.

Also if you have funds or union insurance that will pay for it lodge a claim at the ET for unfair dismissal and disability discrimination.

Ppp

What matters with your disabities is the effect on you doing the job not what they perceive is the effect.

If it's a health and safety reason then this should have been properly assessed as outlined in my comment above.

Loads of stated cases at the employment appeal tribunal and court of appeal etc where someone who didn't want to and they should have found another role for you even if it meant moving someone or giving you a job higher than your grade as long as you could do it.

A

Horler v Chief Constable of South Wales Police is an interesting ET case. Not binding but is being referred to at Tribunals as very good guidance.

I explained at my meeting 'pre-dismissal' that I'd like to stay within the company as the pension company has a deal where if you have to move jobs, they'd make up the difference on wage if it was a lower rate. I asked to be moved to two jobs, which we all agreed seemed within the remit of Occupational Healths requirements ,but once again they swung in and said 'no'. So basically dismissed on medical grounds. The union guy said I '...should be happy I've had so much time off' To which I said '..if they'd said there would be no hope of a return twelve months ago, I could have made better provision for my further,rather than being medically dismissed at the point of return' I also have the 'medically dismissed' black mark against me for future employ. This will definitely impede my chances of getting a decent job. Also, why would the pension company make provision for me over such a length of time if the company had no intention of redeploying/re-employing me?

I've lodged an appeal ,which will be heard in a weeks time. We both think (me and the union guy) that they've not given me a fair crack of the whip at my old role. Even though the consultant has written to my employer basically saying there's nothing wrong with me. I kind of feel as though all trust has been broken between me and the employer.

They basically feel as the role will be too demanding for my knee. Which is odd ,as they have guys 20 years my senior doing the same role with dodgy knees. So much so,they provided knee guards for when they have to bend down.

Thanks for the link, I've read it with gusto!

Im going through an issue with work. Im finding the union is a little laid back. Nothing too major yet, but they're very reticent regarding action.

Im a little worried they might be weak in the face of my Tribunal (They're the same ones who work with employees of a company which rhymes with 'Besco')

I've been so worried ,I've approached a private company who do work on a 'fixed fee' basis. I can afford to go down the fixed fee route. I want to make sure my ex-employer really isn't left off the hook.

Would anyone recommend a best route? Its the first time I've ever done this in 25 years of work. Im not asking for definitives, but in the face of an ineffectual union ,but with unlimited access to legal cover, or go for a fixed fee from a firm which I'll be the main focus ie. they'll be working directly for me.

Are union legal cover as effective as paid private action?

I would say, given the choice, it's probably better to go with a solicitor of your choice.

In my experience, unions will either conduct the work in house, send the work to a referral team of semi qualified paralegals who keep the work in house there, or refer it to their panel solicitors who generally do the work for a low fixed amount.

A no win no fee qualified solicitor will be more likely to work hard on the case, in my opinion. They need to get the right result to get paid for the job!

The other option is to see if you have legal expenses insurance under your household contents insurance policy - in which case you could invoke your right to freedom of choice and find a reputable firm.

It's a matter of personal choice though.

Take advantage of the legal plus if it's more of a legal issue which your membership covers and take it from there.

Might edit your post Bill... calling company into disrepute when looking at your whole posting history, and so on....

Cant call legal plus as it has to go through the rep first. Or he'd say 'why did you do that? I was dealing with it'

I explained at my meeting 'pre-dismissal' that I'd like to stay within the company as the pension company has a deal where if you have to move jobs, they'd make up the difference on wage if it was a lower rate. I asked to be moved to two jobs, which we all agreed seemed within the remit of Occupational Healths requirements ,but once again they swung in and said 'no'. So basically dismissed on medical grounds. The union guy said I '...should be happy I've had so much time off' To which I said '..if they'd said there would be no hope of a return twelve months ago, I could have made better provision for my further,rather than being medically dismissed at the point of return' I also have the 'medically dismissed' black mark against me for future employ. This will definitely impede my chances of getting a decent job. Also, why would the pension company make provision for me over such a length of time if the company had no intention of redeploying/re-employing me?

 

 

 

I've lodged an appeal ,which will be heard in a weeks time. We both think (me and the union guy) that they've not given me a fair crack of the whip at my old role. Even though the consultant has written to my employer basically saying there's nothing wrong with me. I kind of feel as though all trust has been broken between me and the employer.

 

 

 

 

 

They basically feel as the role will be too demanding for my knee. Which is odd ,as they have guys 20 years my senior doing the same role with dodgy knees. So much so,they provided knee guards for when they have to bend down.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, I've read it with gusto!

You need to try and get the role profiles/job specs for those other roles asap. If you have any access to the companies policies and procedures handbook I would get them too together with any Generic Risk assessments made.

I am sure the Union guy would have access to those documents if he is still an employee. Either that or get a mate still working their to source them for you.

IMO they sacked you off because of your disability and quite clearly acted unlawfully. I would be preparing to go tribunal

Thanks again phaitun!

sage advice indeed. This is exactly what I'd suspected...and sort of thought the union guy would be jumping all over company for breaching rules, but he seems quite relaxed on the matter. He doesn't work for my company ,he works directly for the union (not sure if I used 'rep' in right term?) which is why Im a bit concerned at 'laissez faire' attitude to proceedings. I have job specs off the works intranet (still have access) and there are guys the HR guy they openly admitted had knee problems doing the job already:( Also ,many of the drivers are approaching retirement, so I'd assume I'd have better health ? (not wanting to sound ageist, but trying to underline case)

Most companies will use tactics we don't like. Highlighting that in my opinion does not meen your bringing them into disrepute. However point taken and post edited.

Bill

use the union. Get a full time regional officer involved rather than your local reps. Contact head office if the branch wont get off their backsides to help. The legal help will cost you nothing via the union and their solicitors are better than any no-win no fee people, trust me.

Cheers EB!

Lodge an appeal and also an ET claim if the three-month deadline for EqA looms. The mandatory ACAS intervention will suspend the time limit while you negotiate.

You do not have wait until your appeal. Take care they don't time you out.

Take action early and quickly. Try to find a lawyer. Address all your concerns from now on for the benefit of the ET.

Cite this other person as a comparator. Try to find out whether he has the same condition as you. Ask him if he's willing to share details about his knee and OH.

Lodge an appeal and also an ET claim if the three-month deadline for EqA looms. The mandatory ACAS intervention will suspend the time limit while you negotiate.

 

You do not have wait until your appeal. Take care they don't time you out.

 

Take action early and quickly. Try to find a lawyer. Address all your concerns from now on for the benefit of the ET.

 

Cite this other person as a comparator. Try to find out whether he has the same condition as you. Ask him if he's willing to share details about his knee and OH.

Thanks Pusillanimous!

I'm in her middle of an appeal now. They've stuck by their guns and glossed over the points above. It's adjourned til next week as the union guy blew holes in their OH assessment . So hopefully it won't time out. It looks as though getting my job back is a pipe dream they're looking at a settlement agreement. Roughly three months pay as I've had a lot of time paid for when off (even thought that wasnt through the kinder ness of my employer,rather it was out of my own pocket via the pension company) so the union guy said

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. If that is their plan, tell them you will settle for six months salary to go quietly.

Be realistic.

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. If that is their plan, tell them you will settle for six months salary to go quietly.

 

Be realistic.

We floated that on the table and got a 'you can forget that' reply.

I've lost a well paid job here. All the medical evidence points to the contrary of what the employer is saying. I feel as though they should put a zero on the figure to commensurate for what Im actually losing here. I've done nothing wrong, I've complied with all requests from my employer, (medical disclosure, attending meetings when requested ,being generally very open) and Im now looking at getting punted in to the long grass due to a normal medical procedure ,which I came out of with no ill effects.

It leaves a real bitter taste in my mouth when I think about it