Agreement Enforceability

[car2403]

Try uploading them again, but this time remove your personal details

[car2403]

Sorry, you'll need to remove the agreement number and your signature as well.

 

[star_scream]

I would say that that agreement is totally unenforceable. The PPI premium and amount of credit have to be shown separately.

[pinky123]

[pinky123]

Thanks for reply, but they are shown as seperate amounts :

 

10000.00 for loan

1860.00 for PPI Premium

 

Can anyone explain the figures to me, I have tried to make sense of these, but don't know hw they have got thefigures.

[car2403]

I suspect the figures are right. As it gives a 3 month repayment holiday, effectively, the APR applied seems to be right to me.

 

I think the point about the multiple agreement is this;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within.html

[pinky123]

Thanks for the help Chris, I will be dropping a letter off to them ASAP.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

[star_scream]

What I meant was, they have to be shown as 2 different 'loans'. The PPI cannot be added to the amount borrowed.

[maybelline]

what is this test case in London Commerical Court and county courts expected to stay claims?

 

no links then?

Edited May 10, 2009 by maybelline
question

[car2403]

what is this test case in London Commerical Court and county courts expected to stay claims?

 

no links then?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/198059-unenforceability-cases-hold-until.html

[maybelline]

thanks car2403 I guess what I really mean is will it affect those testing validity of agreements and if so how?

[pt2537]

thanks car2403 I guess what I really mean is will it affect those testing validity of agreements and if so how?

ok lets be clear

 

 

THERE IS NO STAY. NOT AT THIS POINT

 

it is a proposal at this point.

 

call Chester High Court and ask for Nerys the court manager, she will tell you that no stay is currently in progress.

 

I had a hearing on Friday in the same area where these so called stays are running and the hearing went ahead as normal

[maybelline]

cheeky reporting of this then eh? thanks!

[Number6]

On what basis could there be a stay anyway?

 

With bank charges there were some ambiguous points of law to be tested but regarding CCA cases surely it's covered by current legislation pretty much in black and white?

 

Pete

[pt2537]

On what basis could there be a stay anyway?

 

With bank charges there were some ambiguous points of law to be tested but regarding CCA cases surely it's covered by current legislation pretty much in black and white?

 

Pete

Exactly Pete

 

The maxim Stare Decisis springs to mind

[Number6]

Exactly Pete

 

The maxim Stare Decisis springs to mind

 

..... et quieta non movere.

 

Indeed.

 

Pete

[hopkinson]

I have been passed the following information on the case. It looks hopeful and knowledgeable. "On 8 th April 2009 Judge Halbert gave judgement on an unenforceable loan case involving a secured loan issued by Southern Pacific Personal Loans. Essentially the argument was that the loan was unenforceable because the lender had failed to treat the broker loan correctly in calculating interest and accordingly they had breached one of the prescribed terms under the Consumer Credit Act. The judgement represented a complete and unequivocal victory for the borrower. The Judge went one stage further because he also said that if he had to consider whether to exercise his discretion for another breach that wasn't a prescribed term then he would have done so, ie he would have declared the loan unenforceable even though the breach wasn't a prescribed term.

The lender has filed an appeal against the decision. The judgement has encouraged a flood of cases being issued or expected to be issued out of Chester County Court.

Judge Halberts proposal is that the Court should consider whether it is appropriate that certain distinct issues should be decided once and for all by test cases. The Court might also decide that there should be set directions whenever an Unenforceable irregularity case is issued at Court. A blanket stay in relation to disputed loan and credit card agreement could be disastrous for the lenders. When a borrower stops making their regular repayments the lenders response is to issue debt recovery proceedings against the borrower. If the borrower raised a defence that the agreement was unenforceable the claim would be automatically stayed pending the result of the test cases. In the meantime the lender is unable to recover money owed to them and their threats of court action are rendered toothless. "

[banker_rhymes_with]

...are rendered toothless

 

That's about what I have in mind for the next annoying DCA that swaggers into my deep dark corner of the woods but, I digress.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[hopkinson]

does anyone know if there is either a template for final letter of intent or N1 form or case/statues for unenforceability. I have searched everywhere. thanks

[noddyaccount]

HI

For anyone unfamiliar with the issues raised in the previous postings about application forms being used as agreements.

The concern being that if you wanted to check the enforceability of your agreement by sending off a request under section 77-79 of the act(For a copy agreement), the creditor could send you an application form with the prescribed terms and it would be enforceable.

In my opinion this was never a valid argument but I do see the concern.

An application form with all the prescribed terms and a signature would fill al the requirements of section127 (3) and you could not declare it as unenforceable under that clause. However there are other clauses such as 127(1)(ii) and the fact that no cancellation or copies would have been sent that have always made it in my mind to be a cause for concerne.

Anyway to put an end to the controversy a letter was sent to the DTI to settle the matter the reply said unequivocally that an application could never be enforced as an agreement. (The letter is posted on here if you click me then my threads you will find it under letters from the dti).

One of the main sources of confusion is that until lately many of the creditors have been very lax in the way they conform to the regulations, and now they are getting their fingers burned.

Another source of confusion is that if you send off an unexecuted but correctly formatted (with all the Prescribed terms etc) agreement with your signature on it

The creditor can look at it and say yes ok and sign, thus executing it and you get your card or no thanks and you don’t so in that sense it is an application.

So yes an agreement can be used as an application but only if it conforms to the Consumer Credit Act, if it doesn’t it is not going to legally bind the debtor to its terms simple as that.

In my opinion when the creditors send these “Application forms” they are sending out what they regard to be an agreement, until it was pointed out to them that they did not comply with the CCA. Which I think is good news for us.

In the new amended regulations that came out in 2004 SI 1481 there has to be a greater amount of pre contractual information given before the agreement is signed this also should that the debtor understands that when he signs the unexecuted agreement he is in fact applying for the credit.

Best regards

Peter

 

I do not know if I am being stupid here , but does this opinion still stand , I have been sent a credit card request form , 2 sides , and a seperate t&cs , looks like a booklet ,in response to my cca request , no prescribed terms no t&cs within the page so according to this advice it should be un enforcable .

 

Was this changed by Judge Browns ruling 16.05.2008 on the Rankines , specifically para 29 which to my unlearned eye seems to state that an executed copy does not require the parties signatures . Does this mean by signing the card one accepts the t&cs .Does it have to be an executed or unexecuted copy to comply with a cca request?

[pinky123]

After weeks of sending letters regarding the enforceability of my agreement (the ppi and loan amount being lumped together and not shownseperately) The Funding Corporation have totally ignored all letters and emails and have failed to give me an answer, I have now stopped paying and now I get constant phonecalls to both mobile and home, (I have sent them 2 harrassment letters and 2 emails advising them to stop but they are relentless and still continue.

I have wrote numerous letters requesting answers to my query above but choose to ignore these.

I have now been sent a letter from Roman Recoveries (same address as The Funding Corporation), saying if I do not pay within 7 days they will:

 

Get a court order under the attachment of Earnings to deduct money from my salary

 

Send a baliff to take goods to the value.

 

HELP!! Can they actually do this, I have sent all letters recorded delivery and also taking times and dates of phonecalls.

 

 

 

 

 

The PPI premium and amount of credit have to be shown separately

[hellhasnofury]

After weeks of sending letters regarding the enforceability of my agreement (the ppi and loan amount being lumped together and not shownseperately) The Funding Corporation have totally ignored all letters and emails and have failed to give me an answer, I have now stopped paying and now I get constant phonecalls to both mobile and home, (I have sent them 2 harrassment letters and 2 emails advising them to stop but they are relentless and still continue.

I have wrote numerous letters requesting answers to my query above but choose to ignore these.

I have now been sent a letter from Roman Recoveries (same address as The Funding Corporation), saying if I do not pay within 7 days they will:

 

Get a court order under the attachment of Earnings to deduct money from my salary

 

Send a baliff to take goods to the value.

 

HELP!! Can they actually do this, I have sent all letters recorded delivery and also taking times and dates of phonecalls.

 

The PPI premium and amount of credit have to be shown separately

 

 

Hello Pinky,

 

Unless they have previously issued at court and obtained a county court judgement against you, they can't do any of the above.

 

IMHO they are trying to put the frighteners on you:rolleyes: They will use any tactic to do this

 

I would be reporting them to the OFT:D for serious breach of the oft debt collection guidence for their behaviour.

 

Continue with your log of calls, try and get names and employee id for your harassment file.

 

Can you give us a link to a thread you have on this matter.

[conar686]

After weeks of sending letters regarding the enforceability of my agreement (the ppi and loan amount being lumped together and not shownseperately) The Funding Corporation have totally ignored all letters and emails and have failed to give me an answer, I have now stopped paying and now I get constant phonecalls to both mobile and home, (I have sent them 2 harrassment letters and 2 emails advising them to stop but they are relentless and still continue.

I have wrote numerous letters requesting answers to my query above but choose to ignore these.

I have now been sent a letter from Roman Recoveries (same address as The Funding Corporation), saying if I do not pay within 7 days they will:

 

Get a court order under the attachment of Earnings to deduct money from my salary

 

Send a baliff to take goods to the value.

 

HELP!! Can they actually do this, I have sent all letters recorded delivery and also taking times and dates of phonecalls.

 

 

 

 

 

The PPI premium and amount of credit have to be shown separately

 

Agree with HHNF and would add

 

Change your phone number, its simple and free, you also get a choice of number that is similar to the one you already have.

 

Write to your local Trading Standards claiming harassment, I use the term stalking in my letters, and asking them to investigate, it will also be worth informing the OFT

[patrickq1]

dont even bother to change your number just make sure you have a facility to record all calls,secondly since they are in receipt of your harrassment letter and they have ignored them,now is the time for more deffinitiv action firstly phone your local police force and ask to speak with a seargent and then explain the situation preferably after you have the recording,when the police get involved you then have a crime number so if it ever gets to court they will have to answer to the harrassment charges as well as refusal to show documentation....so next time they call try make sure you have some sort of recording facility... and first thing they will ask is are such and such a body their reply yes,and wait for them to ask second question remind them that they are now in breach of your order to quit the telephone harrassment they will ignore this so when they ask to speak with you you simply inform them no and await their next question repeat your answer with they are in breach of the harrassment act that shall now be forwarded to the police with regards to a criminal prosecution...then also phone your telephone provider and explain the harrassment that is taking place giving them the numbers of who the company is they should then be able to stop these calls ,but dont switch your numbers and give in to intimidation remember YOU NOW CONTROL THE SITUATION this is your right untill you get answers they would not dare take this to court without going through the correct and lawful procedures ,to make the police wake up and understand your desperation you are or have a illness etc and are really feeling suicidal this will make the take notice and act,,

you also need further to contact the FSA and the FOS concerning your harrassment complaint and the refusal to furnish you with the paperwork you require so you have plenty of lawful weapons so use them you are in control

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

Hello Pinky,

 

Unless they have previously issued at court and obtained a county court judgement against you, they can't do any of the above.

 

IMHO they are trying to put the frighteners on you:rolleyes: They will use any tactic to do this

 

I would be reporting them to the OFT:D for serious breach of the oft debt collection guidence for their behaviour.

 

Continue with your log of calls, try and get names and employee id for your harassment file.

 

Can you give us a link to a thread you have on this matter.

 

did nt see your thread hells hi

patrickq1