Olden v Barclays Bank

[stonedecroze]

Thank god my hearing is in my local court, I just hope that they get around to changing the date!!

 

Best thing is have a long soak in the bath and get yourself off to bed.

[olden]

yes think I will, just going to do a bit of reading on yours...val

[tezl]

bit late, site down i think.

well done val,you must be well knackered,

what a massive hurdle you and jenny must have got over today.

not just court,but all the work leading up to it,knowing the chances of winning at this moment were smaller than a mini clerk.

dont bother rattling tonight, have good nights rest.

talk over weekend,find something to rant about,plus get full story.

tez

[smutley]

exacty tezl think you summed it up well.... it was a long day, 10m in hearing into 2.5 hrs... my advise. no bundle, not needed for stay...just your personal circums...xxx catch u all tomorrow xxx

[smutley]

Hi Val, it was lovely to meet you yesterday... it was as if we have known each other for years! I dont think I could have gone through with the hearing without you, thanks so much for being my 'court buddy'. What a long journey you had getting home, you must have been exhausted. I went back to work, but could not concentrate, it was a strange feeling, as if a weight had been lifted off me (and I did sink quite a few vodkas last night! ). It was good that we could have a few laughs during and after the hearing.. that guy butterbean was really nice too and when the HSBC solicitor said she wanted costs and the judge rolled his eyes and said that they were not appropriate! Im reliving the part when I put my hand up to speak, I remember looking at my hand in the air thinking and what are you going to say as brain had gone blank... I did say something to which the judge seemed to agree, but I cannot recollect now what it was! It was a sort out out of body experience! So glad we met, and dont forget if you need any help with anything... and ebay!!!

[olden]

Hi Jenny, yes I agree, it is a strange thing when you think about it, a bit wierd really getting to speak on line as it were and then meeting up and finding that you have a lot in common, i could not have gone through it without you, it was really good supporting each other its true strength in numbers ! , I would not have had the confidence to speak otherwise. I couldn't hear HSBC solicitor properly at that time she spoke very quietly maybe ashamed? (alright maybe I'm going deaf ?) did she actually ask for the costs? I had difficulty hearing that bit. butterbean was hoping she would, he was going straight to the press if she had. I asked about the bus to Chepstow and was sent all over the place up and down the entire bus station, nobody who worked there seemed to know, eventually someone did and said no you have to catch a bus to Newport and then change to stagecoach bus service to Chepstow, which I did and the best bit is FREE first time I've ever used my bus pass thought it was great horrible travel but cheaper than my car ( 27miles a gallon) I might have to get used to the bus!! I got home at 4oclock. anyway I am glad we met and we will keep in touch, I hope to sort out the ebay things I have to take photos first and then learn how to post on line, I do a lot of printing photos, but I have never sold on ebay. I think I will stop now as its another late night, val xx

[tezl]

well done jenny,

i was going to say last night,,,(,because you werent on site)that you might be on the pop.(then seen you posted early hours.)well deserved.

tez

really pleased ,that you met up and got on.

[olden]

hi tez do you want me to post the full story as far as I remember it? or have you all had enough from me now?

[tezl]

you carry on bab.

all the gory details.

did you travel on your own!!!?

you dont read old enough to have bus pass.

honestly dont know how some of these judges sleep at night.

im no lefty,but its about time,what i would call ordinary people,who live in the same world as ordinary folk were given some of these positions.

not being condescending to "ordinary folk" im one.

tez

[olden]

OK tez you asked for it, hope you don't regret it!!

 

Well we survived the hearing, but no luck with the stay, no surprise there then, met up with Jenny, which was great, we both felt so nervous, it really helped being in it together, jenny did brilliantly, I even surprised myself that I could speak! only 3 of us turned up out of 5, the third was a chap from the sites alias butterbean his case was against HSBC, and behind us in court were 4 legal trainees from the university, and a man with Bs solicitor who she referred to as ' a mini clerk' ! ( if I got that right) HSBCs solicitor was there and ours both female (young girls) we arrived at 10am, the judge was late due to another case took longer than expected, and our case finished at 1 oclock! Not the 10mins they told us then. there was a tremendous amount of legal jargon, the judge explained the impending OFT case to us in full! we each had our turn to speak and to be fair the judge seemed to be symathetic, the banks solicitors had their turn, and this time (just our luck) made a meal of it, finally the judge summed up and made his decision, we already knew that because he told us at the start! we had all asked for the conditions in the alternative to be adhered to, but he refused that as well.

 

The judge told us that even if we got the stay lifted and eventually got a hearing, we wouln’t get a date until next year and probably after the OFT case, even then if we won that case, we would not get our money, because nothing is being paid out until the ultimate decision is made. The case in January will only be the beginning, as which ever side wins will appeal so it probably goes to the House of Lords and it may even go as far as Europe so it could take 1-2 years before it finishes.

Judge Hickenbottom was very considerate of the fact that we are nervous, when he finished his address, he asked each one in turn to speak, it isn’t as bad as you think, just speak out, he seemed understanding. He asked if we wanted to withdraw the application since there was no advantage one way or the other now that they will not pay out anyway, and gave us 10 minutes to decide he left the room so we could discuss it amongst ourselves. I decided to withdraw my application but asked if the conditions could be applied mainly for me to have the penalty charges stopped until the outcome of test case, he asked barclays solicitor and she she went on and on about the cost to Barclays would be far too much as they would have to check accounts manually, (surely this was confirmation of the main point she more or less admitted automated penalties cost very little?) The Judge was not impressed by this, but in the end he did not agree to apply the conditions.

 

When the Bs solicitor was giving her boring long speal, she referred to my personal status of my overdraft, that I had £1000 in my overdraft account, I am not incurring penalties ! my hand went up (so did my hackles) , the judge said I would have my chance to respond later. When I did I said "Your honour ever since I began this claim in January this year I have constantly been moving money into this account from 0% credit cards, in an effort to prevent these penalty charges and that to the present day, means that my debt now stands at £8000. With the current account £4000 (overdraft limit £5000) NatWest A& L and MBNA credit cards. If I hadn’t done this the account would be over the limit by £4000" + thousands of charges!!! I also said "I am 67 years old and my Husband is 72 years old and we have had this account with Bs for about 45 years and it wasn’t until we retired in 2003 on a pension that we began incurring these penalty charges " I misguidedly thought that would put Bs to shame. Was this an attempt to make the judge think I am not suffering hardship? I know that by the end of next week the payments due out will mean that I will be up to or over the limit once again, and looking for somewhere to move money again. I will be lucky to pay off the cards in time before the promotion dates are up on the different cards, this is how it snowballs.

 

That guy butterbean was really nice too, the poor chap had travelled all the way from Tenby, wife had just had their first child so his wife was not working, he had a £12,000 debt and HSBC had closed his account that day, so he is left high and dry and he is also on the default register, etc.. and when Judge Hicky asked if the banks were looking for costs for today, Barclays said they were not, but the HSBC solicitor said she wanted costs, and the judge rolled his eyes and said that they were not appropriate! Butterbean, told us after he hoped she had asked him for costs, he couldn’t pay but he thought he would go straight to the press. There is some sort of rule at present throughout this process that is supposed to be preventing the banks from closing accounts. He showed Judge Hicky the letter he had today from HSBC solicitors, also they threatened to send the debt collectors to his door. the banks have also been intimidating people with constant phone calls on the weekends demanding money, cancelling cards and cheque books.

We achieved nothing other than the invaluable experience of a court hearing, the judge understood that we had missed out getting our money as he agreed that before the announcement Bs were paying out, he would be writing to us with reasons for turning us down after he had heard a few more cases by next week. He did say something about the letter being a benefit to us.

 

This means that as much as I don’t want to say it, I think all this work to uplift the stays is now pointless. I suggest you just sit back and wait and watch the OFT case.

 

[saintly_1]

You gave it your best hun thats all that you can do ... if you hadn't of tried it you would be forever thinking what if .....

 

 

 

Saint

[tezl]

gee no need to buy sunday paper.lol

joking apart,always thought your right about stays.

a lot of work individually.

you would not have met jenny though,so something good came from it.

the bit about letter from judge helping,think ive read that before,but not seen resulting letter.gets you thinking what it could possibly contain to help you.interesting perhaps .just watching strickly come dancing result program with opera singers.absolutely brilliant.

tez

[smutley]

Hey Val, what a brill account of our hearing... what more can I say other than when you told the judge you were 67 he looked up as to say, never! (and I agree you look fab for your age!)

 

The cases he referred to were something like (and if anyone can interpret them, please feel free)

Bearing

Carslyle

Harris v HSBC - Ian Hughes

Crossdale

 

Thats points in the banks submission carried more weight than others.

 

In particular there was not much weight to their submission on having to manually administer our accounts to the consideration of stopping bank charges and that the comment "Heavy finanical burden to the banks" did not go down well with Judge Hickinbottom.

I told him that Thomas Hickey (b's lit team)had told me in June that b's would be settling in full end of July, but when I rang mid July (before the announcement) Thomas had completely changed his tune and almost denied what he had said. I managed to add that it was as if the banks had had prior notice to the test case. Judge H agreed that barclays were settling claims before the announcement of the test case and that it was unfortunate for us that we had to wait so long for our court dates.

Judge H took a lot of time checking the banking code and want to know more from B's solicitor (Miss Hilly ?) about what was in place for hardship cases.

Anyway, I look forward to receiving his reasons via letter next week which hopefully as he said, will be to our benefit.

Also, we can still apply to lift the stay at anytime.

 

Jenny

ps

I now have 3 sets of bundles in my possession, if anyone is in dire need.. let me know and I will send you one of mine (free of charge of course)

[olden]

tez you are so right I am glad I met Jenny and then theres you you are so funny I can't wait to see whats in judges letter . yes good old Brucie I switch between that and XFactor all the time. val

[olden]

Thanks jenny, To tell the truth I thought he might take age into account and feel so sorry for me he would lift the stay ! and order Bs to give me my money!!

 

just remembered jen i think the thing you said to the judge when you raised your hand was that bit about the fact that Bs won't go to court?

[smutley]

I think Val if he was able to he would have.. but what was it Miss Hilly turned to us and said, something to the effect that if we managed to get the stay lifted then b's would just keep on appealing and therefore no hearing prior to test case... coz I said to her that b's would not actually come to court to defend, they would pay out as they would not want to disclose anything before the test case.... bits keep coming back to me!!

So glad its over though, but im not looking forward to tomorrow... Im appearing in court again as a witness!!!

[stonedecroze]

Once again

you two, thanks for posting all the gory details, it has given me a good idea of what to expect when I go to my hearing (which I do not expect to win ) but you tried and will not have to worry about what if....... as Saintly has pointed out. you both have my greatest admiration and respect. regards Stone

[smutley]

thank you stone, but we couldnt have gone through with it without all the support from you, saintly, tezl and everyone else on this wonderful site that has given us advice and support... to you and everyone else a million thanks yous!!!

[tezl]

hi jenny,

and you was worried about what you would say.

you done brill and got respect from dj.from look of it.

mind he sounded like bit of a smoothie complementing val like that.

you obviously never tried the destitute look then.lol

lets hope theres a bit of a sting in the tail for bs in this letter.

tez

[olden]

thank you stone, but we couldnt have gone through with it without all the support from you, saintly, tezl and everyone else on this wonderful site that has given us advice and support... to you and everyone else a million thanks yous!!!

 

I second that every word Jenny, this is something I could never have faced alone, thanks once again to all of you. val xx

[olden]

Hi stone and thanks for that Did you get your hearing date changed yet? also I wrote to that BBC programme and they never answered me at all, hope they got some good cases on there, must remember to watch that val

[olden]

Jenny, all the best for the court case on Tuesday, I don't think you have anything to worry about, you are probably going to be the most experienced one there now, no judge or solicitors will phase you

val xx

[ice maiden]

 

The cases he referred to were something like (and if anyone can interpret them, please feel free)

Bearing

Carslyle

Harris v HSBC - Ian Hughes

Crossdale

 

Thats points in the banks submission carried more weight than others.

 

 

I can't find the case anywhere. Can you remember roughly what did was said about it?

[olden]

Hi ice maiden look at carlysle and clysedale? i think that may be one of them?

[smutley]

I can't find the case anywhere. Can you remember roughly what did was said about it?

 

Hi Ice Maiden, Oldens correct with that one... but the others, I was trying to write them down as the Judge said them and only managed the first name didnt get the V soandso!! sorry.... but he didnt explain anything about the cases other than mention them which was for the guy with us 'Butterbean' v HSBC - the Judge got the cases photocopied for him to take home and read! You might have more luck if you try and source out Butterbean in the HSBC forum.. sorry but my shorthand is rubbish!