CL Finance/Cohen Claimform - old GE Edge Card Debt

[mrmarmite]

subscribing to thread,

as N.P says its his word againt theirs, BUT

i wouldnt put it past DCA's to try this stunt especialy if they think that they can get away with it

[dannyboy660]

How will anyone on here know wether it`s a fake or not? After all, did they send RP the original documnet with the alleged forgery or was it just a copy / scan they sent him? Either way, he has still scanned it himself to show on here, so no one would be able to tell the difference.

 

None of us will know...but the point is RP has made a clear statement on the CAG forum that HC has sent him forged docs. That's quite a serious allegation should a representative of HC or a malicious person be reading this forum. The last thing he/she needs is to be identified, at the moment.

 

Ultimately RP is responsible for that statement, and is looking for advice/support to go forward into a possible court action. It's his/her word against theirs, but if the evidence exists, then I feel under those circumstances it would be better if someone with a bit of experience or legal knowledge takes a look at what's on offer, in case a chance of exposing a dirty trick slips by.

 

Maybe I'm being too cautious, but this could be what we've been waiting for. Why tell them what to expect so they can prepare???

 

We need an expert opinion

[mrmarmite]

dannyboy has nailed it, is it worth seeking advice from local solicitor perhaps to look and poss verify????????????

[dannyboy660]

I think you're gradually coming round to my way of thinking

 

I'd be much happier if someone with more clout could step in and help RP along what could be a an interesting path.

[mrmarmite]

very interesting none the less, it deffo needs info from a pro, this can cause a lot of serious damage (in our faovor if true) if not checked out properly. i'm DO NOT agree NOR disagree with N.P BUT "should" it be true that DCA has actually faked a signature then it will really hit the "proverbial" fan. as ultimatley end up with some serious law suits on the case (in our favor we prey(and no i don't preach)) of which will in turn force the likes of TS,FOS, OFT ect to tighten the belt a little bit further. if NP were me it be well worth seeing and paying to see solicitor for an hour JUST to find out, IF true we will all owe grattiude to NP just for putting ONE more nail in the coffin of DCA's, end result the OFT DCA guidelines will have a lot more added to it.

 

now hopefully dannyboy will see wot i say and agree?????????? (preys again)

[mrmarmite]

ooops, make that R.P not NP

[Goldlady]

RP we are in same situation with same people - have sent in defence saying no CCA as well as other matters. As yet no forged CCA has landed on the doormat but I will await it with interest.

 

I am getting paranoid now!! There were two "guests" viewing this thread when I looked in. Hi there invisible peeps!

 

I am not surprised that these people have resorted to what is basically fraud to get their money. Subscribing with interest and hope someone does come along who knows what to do next .......

[BreadAndButter]

ok...feel like i've inadvertantly lit a fuse on this one.

let me just say, i know this signature isn't mine, as i say i have years of banking records and all my current cards/ prov licence etc which all show a different signature so i feel quite comfortable proving it isn't mine

whilst i'm of course infuriated on that point, i also am not sure that what they've sent me is even 'an agreement' in the sense that one should e anyway. it says web application at the top and i think i need to tackle this in 2 steps really

first i really need some advice on what sort of deadline/ steps i should be working to if this were a run of the mill response to my cca. i want to know if what they;ve sent me would be enforceable even if it were my sig (again, i can assure you all it is not).

the reason i say this is i don't know at what stage this sig was added to the document. surely it's impossible to prove if it was done by someone at ge money, cl finance or hc & co. and just playing devil's advocate to myself, but surely they could argue that a person deliberately did an incorrect sig. again, i didn;t and if i were to be that kind of person then surely you'd do it on every application thereby negating the logic in doing it but anyway

am i making sense?

would it not be worth my putting up a very blanked of all personal details copy of the 'web application' they sent in order to judge whether indeed it does even constitute an agreement even when it is properly signed.

because they'd now have passed the criminal deadline also so it could be a nice two-proned attack to go back with.

[MARTIN3030]

There are serious allegations here that can have serious consequences if they are indeed shown to be as suggested.

My guess is that they will go for a set aside of any court orders made.In the meantime you need to get together a witness statement that will allow these allegations some

weight.

I would say for the moment that as it stands there should be some restraint in the thread against whats posted.

It has been a reported post to seek further advice.

[renegotiation]

When did you take out the credit card Pete?

[N.P]

Hi RP,

 

You keep refering to the document with the alleged false signature as the Web Application. If this is indeed a Application Form then it will be unenforceable anyway. A lot of CAG members have been sent Application Forms back instead of a properley executed CCA. Has anyone on here actually seen a scan of these documents? When I clicked on your thumbnails, all I got was the thumbnail in another window and not a full size image.

 

Secondly, and I`m not being funny again, but how many of you out there ALWAYS write your signature EXACTLY the same everytime you write it? If this does go as far as Court, the DCA or whoever could just say exactly that. I know for a fact that I can write 10 signatures and all of them are different.

 

How much does the alleged false signature differ from your own genuine one?

 

Sorry to keep putting a downer on this, but we also have to look at this from a defensive perspective.

 

I will definately keep watching with interest, because as I have mentioned earlier, I did not write my signature to Argos or Morecrap, I used a PC font (digital signature), so I am still waiting a reply with caution and interest.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P.

[BreadAndButter]

N.P. i take your points totally

the sig is different from mine in that one of the width is very different, the slant is very different and the actual style of writing is very different

and like you say, this could just be an application form, tho like a lot of people i'm very confused on that point as it also claims to be an agreement so woulod appreciate some clarification from someone in the know

really not trying to blow any of this out of proportion, but also obv not happy about having received this. the accompanying statements are also not in keeping with the terms of the application/ agreement so just altogether confused

[N.P]

Hi RP,

 

You really need to find out if what you have is an Application Form or a properley executed CCA. Have a good read of on here Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful and see what you think yourself. A CCA should have the terms mentioned there.

 

The clue, I think is in the title, Web Application. The thing is, if they have indeed falsified your signature, I would have thought they would have done it on a CCA and not an Application Form. What`s the point in using a Application Form?

 

If it is an Application Form then you should be in the clear and if it`s a CCA with a false signature on, then your still in the clear. Of course, this probably won`t stop them chasing you in the mean time, but at least either way you`ll have a good defence.

 

With a bit of luck, someone who is well clued up on here will be along to help you soon.

 

Keep fighting.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P.

[BreadAndButter]

let me again make clear, i haven't accused hc & co of forging my signature, i have simply stated that they have sent me an application/ agreement bearing a false signature, at what point in it's lifetime it was forged, i do not know.

i've looked at the enforceability thread and remain confused because the doc sent is headed 'Web Application', however, as i can see is often the case, it below says 'Credit Card Agreement Regulated By The Consumer Credit Act 1974' and it also states the same in the customer signature box.

it also says there are addiditonal conditions referred to in some customer copy - but none included. the court docs say that as per clause 7 of the agreement they're charging interest at a rate of 26.478%' however there's no clause 7 on the doc sent to me. could this be in nthe additonal doc they refer to on the application. and if so, does none sending of this count as a non-compliance of the cca request too.

the actual application/ agreement also states no set credit limit (the wording implies this will be set if/when an account is opened. and the interest is shown as 00.00% apr as if this is a standard doc.

 

the enforceability thread seems to show some disagreement as to whether an application form can also be an agreement.

 

and yes, it does seem strange to me that they would alteran application, not agreement, which leads me to say again that i don't know at what stage this has been done. it is also strange that the 2 sigs they've done, 1st (on the appl/agr'ment is undated) and the 2nd on the dd mandate (dated) are a little different, where i would have thought they'd be practically traced. i just really am so confused by this. however if they consider this application to be an agreement then maybe then it makes sense.

i just don't know. really need some advice from someone in the know

[spiritgirl59]

Hi Pete

 

Following my CCA request to them, H Cohen & Co sent me an application form (calling it an "agreement") which was in part illegible and had clearly also been tampered with.

 

I wrote and told them so.

 

They replied and referred only to my comments about it being "illegible" and then sent me a blank template of an agreement and general t&cs which could relate to anyone/anything.

 

I haven't heard from them in over a month after writing to them AGAIN and reminding them of their obligations under the CCA, and the fact that they have now sent me blank templates.

 

Part of my Defence if they were to start legal proceedings against me would be to show the Court the tampered with "application form" Pete.

 

I don't want to scan it as I don't want to alert them to who I am - as the parts which are tampered with will clearly identify me.

 

I must make it clear here that I am not accusing H Cohen & Co of tampering with it, but someone somewhere has done so, and my argument is that for this reason, AND the fact it is an "application form" and not a properly executed agreement, I have a very good Defence should they instigate legal proceedings.

 

 

Good luck!

Love Spiritgirl x

[babybear39]

Subscribing with great interest...

 

Good luck and best wishes,

 

BB

[BreadAndButter]

thanks for adding your story spiritgirl59, was sure it wasn't just me this had happened with - especially as mine isn't dealing with vast amounts, hardly seems worth their time!

[BreadAndButter]

had some interesting pms on this (no not PMS) lately but no one able to help conclusively so am going to post up the application form (i think) that i was sent (minus personal details and customer sig boxes)

i've not responded to HC since receiving this and the case has been moved to my local court since then (allocation questionnaire is with me, got until 19th to hand it in)

also i requested everything i'd need in order to form a defence for the case e.g. agreement and any terms relating to it all statements and adjustments etc but they've only sent this supposed agreement and a sample of statements saying that if i wanted anything further i'd have to go to GE for it.

is this correct? as i understand it it is their responsibility (esp as already in the court process) to give me everything i need in order to sort a proper defence...?

anyway here's the docs: i've read the info on how to determine if is an actual agreement but remain unsure for several reasons:

is a generic form - no apr amount given (is set at 0% apparently...but that's not what is on the statements), no credit limit given, and implies this will be set when approced etc, no terms attached altho many referred to etc etc

also it's a web application, i know there was a change regarding web apps in 2004, how does this affect things that were posted out for signature?

anyway, i'm babbling again, here goes:

[mrmarmite]

only get thumbnails, at end of day

1. does it contain your signature yes/no

2. does it contain an interest rate yes/no

3. does it contail a credit limit yes/no

 

if no to any 1 of the 3 then your safe

 

it time this got sorted out peeps. rugypete it trying to get facts. there is info missing from both sides

 

 

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if this was helpful click on my scales (bottom left middle icon on my post)

[spiritgirl59]

also i requested everything i'd need in order to form a defence for the case e.g. agreement and any terms relating to it all statements and adjustments etc but they've only sent this supposed agreement and a sample of statements saying that if i wanted anything further i'd have to go to GE for it.

is this correct? as i understand it it is their responsibility (esp as already in the court process) to give me everything i need in order to sort a proper defence...?

 

Hiya Pete

 

I hope I can answer this part. Yes in my opinion HC should be providing you with all requested information. They are acting for the OC as they are always quick to point out, therefore its their responsibility to provide you with the documents.

 

Mine hasn't got as far as Court (yet!) but they tried this approach with me, telling me they did not need to respond to my CCA request as they were not the OC.

 

Have a look on my thread at the advice I was given by Rory:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/99908-spiritgirl-h-cohen-co.html

 

Since my last letter to them reminding them of their obligations to provide the information I requested, they have strangely gone very very quiet.

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[pmhcfc]

had some interesting pms on this (no not PMS) lately but no one able to help conclusively so am going to post up the application form (i think) that i was sent (minus personal details and customer sig boxes)

i've not responded to HC since receiving this and the case has been moved to my local court since then (allocation questionnaire is with me, got until 19th to hand it in)

also i requested everything i'd need in order to form a defence for the case e.g. agreement and any terms relating to it all statements and adjustments etc but they've only sent this supposed agreement and a sample of statements saying that if i wanted anything further i'd have to go to GE for it.

is this correct? as i understand it it is their responsibility (esp as already in the court process) to give me everything i need in order to sort a proper defence...?

anyway here's the docs: i've read the info on how to determine if is an actual agreement but remain unsure for several reasons:

is a generic form - no apr amount given (is set at 0% apparently...but that's not what is on the statements), no credit limit given, and implies this will be set when approced etc, no terms attached altho many referred to etc etc

also it's a web application, i know there was a change regarding web apps in 2004, how does this affect things that were posted out for signature?

anyway, i'm babbling again, here goes:

[ATTACH]1086[/ATTACH][ATTACH]1087[/ATTACH]

 

Pete,

 

I know this isn't Cabot financial you're dealing, but it has the same basis as the below link. If it's going to court then have a good read of this post as it shows the approach to take regarding the non-supply of a proper executed OA. Elizabeth is very helpful and she'll give you any help you'll need if reading her post isn't enough. As Elizabeth's experience proves; KEEP IT SIMPLE and don't be put off with their bullying ways..Anyhoo, go have a read.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/111844-another-cabot-court-case.html

[tiglet]

subbing

[rameses_qc]

I would not post anything about it here, otherwise it may aid their defences. I would send a copy to the Law Society, telling them that this solicitor has forged the form, and entered a forged signature upon the form. Tell them you will defer informing the Police for 14 days for the Law Society to investigate. No need to provide evidence that it is forged at this stage. If this solicitor has done this fraudulent and criminal act, he will almost certainly be struck off the roll. If they have allowed their letterhead to be used by a DCA who has done this criminal act, then I'm sure they will drop them like a hot potato, and leave them to flounder in the sh*t. In that case they'll have to explain to the LS whay this happened.

[ODC]

The law society are like and old boys club. The Society of Solicitors in Leamington Spa are more effective. Ask Bryan Carter he should know

[Edz11]

Only just seen this thread. Has anything else happened yet? TS need to get involved with this one and they will if they are made aware of it. There's Fraud, as well as Perverting the cause of Justice, to be considered.