SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[BaldyBaldwin]

thanks for the advice uniboy. if you go to general forums and look under the heading " debt and bailiff advice" there is a whole list of template letters

[un1boy]

Thanks for this Kevin - I've been looking for ages, lol

[deemacperth]

Can anyone comment on my credit agreement query?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/29586-debt-notice-assignment-query.html

 

Cheers in advance and rep points at the ready.

[JonCris]

Yes that was my immdiate response but ,the purchase was made over three years ago and any reciepts are long gone,she has had three computers since then. she was only made aware of the problem when she recieved the bill from the DCA for £2000. She then checked her old statements and found that there were two payments outstanding ie,the direct debits were not called . She has no proof of the original term,s of the agreement (puchase price),so how can she prove that she has paid most of the debt. I also do not believe that she deserves to have a negative report on her credit record.

May I say that i was rather dissapointed in the response to my query. May i say that a lot of the people that use this site are expert in these matters but there are a lot of us that are latecomers,i am currenty persuing three claims for the reembursment of bank charges and am fully aware that if not for amazing amount of information that this site delivers it would not be possible. Please be aware that some of us are trying to catch up. If you want to spread the word the last thing you want to do is to make this an elitest site and scare off the people who need it most.

 

Assuming she paid through her bank/building soc. account & didn't pay cash each month there WILL be a record.

You have already stated she was able to see that 2 payments had not been taken & I assume this by means of the statements. You need to get copies of all the relevant statements covering the payment term as proof

[paulwlton]

If a debt as been subjected to a ccj, could a cca request still be made on the original loan, i am making monthly instalments on a ccj, could this be challenged if their is no original loan agrement document.

[andrew1]

I agree. As people following me here may know, I went after the Student Loans Company.. I did this as they have shown utter incompetence and/or contempt to me for the past 10 years in usually failing to send statements, update records, and just generally do anything right.

 

 

I don't want to be a killjoy, but during my stay on this site over the past 6 months I seem to recall someone saying that Student loans were not covered for claiming rebates. Now I may be absolutely 100% wrong, but before you go further I'd check this out and search a few threads. Only trying to help

[rambot]

This loan was subject to numerous charges, and additional penalty interest, which I would like to challenge. Also I would like to challenge the mis-selling of payment protection insurance which, when I tried to make a claim due to redundancy, suddenly became invalid.

I wish to inform you that I believe the original debt contained unlawful charges, and I wish to seek redress over the faulty payment insurance.

 

In order for me to challenge the debt I sent a statutory request for documents as per the Consumer Credit Act to the AKTIV KAPITAL (UK) Ltd.

 

I also sent a SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT at the same time to the original creditors.

 

I wrote to you on 21st June 2006 via recorded signed for delivery,

Requesting a true copy of the signed agreement under the terms of the sections. 77(1) and 78(1) of the CCA 1974, I also enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £1.00 in the form of a postal order.

 

The letter was received by yourselves, A response letter was sent to me acknowledging the receipt of this request I had made and you informed me you would investigate further.

 

I have not been provided with a signed agreement under the consumer credit act, I have not been provided with a statement of account, and I have not been provided with a true copy of the deed of assignment, despite my properly formatted and paid for request.

 

You have repeatedly informed me that you will be trying to obtain the information.

 

After 12 working days AKTIV KAPITAL became "in default", and cannot seek to enforce the debt whilst that status remains. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

After 30 calendar days AKTIV KAPITAL have committed a criminal offence under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, and non compliance with the original request is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. This will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities. If you persist with trying to collect this debt I will raise this with Trading Standards, and the FSA.

 

Should you still decide it is worth pursuing the matter through the court, you will first have to explain to a Judge why you failed to provide the documents within the CCA time limit - and seek permission to proceed with the action,

I will also make a counter claim for northern upholstery to comply with the Data Protection Act, compensation for mis-sold payment insurance, and an estimated refund of charges and penalty interest.

 

Of course....if you do come back to me with all the relevant evidence, and show me exactly how you have calculated it, and deduct all the amounts that were unlawful and the money that should have been paid through the insurance, then I will happily agree to pay you what I owe. Of course it will be at a monthly amount that I can afford

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to AKTIV KAPITAL (UK) Ltd.

I will no longer be making payments against this "debt" as it is unenforceable.

Therefore, I am under no legal obligation to pay you.

[towelie]

Just a quickie q

 

If the company send you a blank agreement stating you should have the original is this the same as them not providing it?

 

i done a CCA on Studio for my mum and they just sent a blank agreement that hadnt been opened and told her she will have original.

 

the fact they cant supply a copy or the original is as good as they have failed under CCA?

 

So my next step would just be the normal procedure?

 

Also if they fail to comply can you ask them to remove any details placed on CRA? I dont mean defaults just things like missed payments?

[JonCris]

No they have to provide a signed true copy A blank agreement ain't gonna make it & would seem to indicate they dont have it & that they think your stooopid. Silly sods!

[JonCris]

Hi Guys I am going to make a comment, that probably won't make me the most popular BAG/CAG member! but, personally I think that it would be wrong, to consider taking this particular avenue as a quick fix method for getting out of paying monies that are owed. However, I do consider that there are special & certain circumstances in which requesting a copy of the doc. could/should be applied. I can only relate my own issue or circumstance and.. I am absolutely disgusted at the 'cavalier' manner in which my credit card supplier (MS) has tried to ride Roughshod over me. MS have ignored my statutory Notice, which is pursuant to section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998! anf just went ahead driving 'coach & horses' over my request by registering a Default against my credit file with Experian, even though 'MS had not Right to Process my information to this third party', after receiving my statutory Notice, the Default was a consequence of their Unlawful Penalty Charges. Now to return to the main topic, MS have not complied with my request under The Consumer Credit Act 1974, under that ACT I am entitled to a copy of the original credit card agreement, within 12 working days plus one calender month of MS receiving my request plus the £1.00 statutory sum. It totally dismays me that my request has been ignored?...and to be frank, I do not think that MS care. The point is that these Financial Institutions, need to be made accountable! We the Consumers can accomplish this by standing together - United. Please don't be angry with an Angry Cat, as this is just IMHO Thanks AC

 

Angry Cat my view FWIW is that the money lenders have for years got away with fleecing us the consumer. If now we can legaly redress the balance by turning the tables then so be it & the best of luck to those of us who do.

[un1boy]

Waht does FWIW and IMHO mean?

[JonCris]

un1boy

 

"For What Its Worth" & "In My Honest Opinion"

[un1boy]

Thanks JonChris!!

[angry cat]

Hi JonCris, I do not disagree with your view but it is important that members who choose to follow this particular avenue, are NOT just looking for a quick fix, or a getout method! Anyhow, how about this for incompetance???? As you are probably aware, I sent off my "Request Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974" for a copy of the signed credit agreement between Morgan Stanley and myself on 2 July 2006, my request was received 4 July 2006. I had heard nothing regarding my 'Request' from Morgan Stanley until yesterday 8 September 2006. Now I am going to use one of Bankfodder's sayings - "I will go to the foot of our stairs" !! Morgan Stanley has returned my £1 postal order, they apologise for their delay in responding, now wait for it (Quote) "I enclose a copy of the Terms & Conditions applicable at your account open date of 27 April 2000 and return your postal order payment, as we will not make a charge in respect of your request". Doh Duh Dumb.....!!! Well, what do you make of this. Am I dumb, or is it them??? My request was for a copy of the signed Credit Agreement between MS & myself. God Help Us. Angry Cat

[troy mcclure]

I assume this would be suitable along with my account info etc:-

 

I would be grateful if you could send me a copy of this agreement. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

If so its going tonight recorded delivery

 

 

I posted my letter recroded delivery to Citi Cards on the 10th of August, this week i received a photocopy of a signed agreement dated 4th of september. The only problem is its for someone else. Where do i stand? Unfortunately ive been working away so only just got it yesterday. \Today im away for a few days so cant reply straight away.

 

Thanks for any help.

[callumsgran]

the same place you did on the 10th August! lol you are no further forward, as you have someone else's agreement ring them and tell them they could be reported under the DPA for giving out information belonging to someone else! And ask them again for your own! good luck

[JonCris]

Great Advice Cillit!

 

Only I would suggest writing. We have to learn that when we telephone these firms we give them deniability. (unless you have skype)

[livity]

I don't want to be a killjoy, but during my stay on this site over the past 6 months I seem to recall someone saying that Student loans were not covered for claiming rebates. Now I may be absolutely 100% wrong, but before you go further I'd check this out and search a few threads. Only trying to help

The past two unlawful penalty charges applied against my account by the SLC have been refunded to me. Prior to that, as the charges were manufactured by the Company (ie. their "facts" were incorrect) I contested the charges and (eventually) they were withdrawn. I'd recommend paying charges, then immediately reclaiming them (that way you avoid the risk that they take court action against you, while leaving open the option for you to take court action against them).

 

Inicidentally, I was hopeful that after repeating this process a "few" times the SLC might wake up, smell the java, and stop engineering charges against my account. I was naive. It turns out that since the SLC is a not-for-profit any "losses" they make (such as refunds on unlawful penalty charges) are ultimately funded by the taxpayer, so why should the SLC care? If this concerns you, you may wish to write to your MP (ask her/him to raise the issue with "the relevant minister" for maximum impact ;-)

 

Besy wishes

Livity

[Giveitback]

Angry Cat - they're dumb. Or playing sneaky. Write back, resend PO and explain again that they haven't complied with your request, etc. Write strongly.

 

troy - yeah, they're no closer to fulfilling obligations, keep going. However, by sending you someone else's agreement, I'm pretty sure they've breached DP law. You might want to contact whoever, and let them know.

[un1boy]

Cillitbanger, I agree - I'd report them anyway, that's absolutely disgusting sending somenone's credit agreement - and completey underminds the whole reason for the DPA! Get their DPA license taken off them!

[angry cat]

Angry Cat - they're dumb. Or playing sneaky. Write back, resend PO and explain again that they haven't complied with your request, etc. Write strongly.

 

Thanks for your view Giveitback. I personally think that MS are playing 'Dirty' (Sneaky tricks) Morgan Stanley give the impression that 'The left Hand doesn't know what the Right hand is doing! However, I am dealing with two different MS departments - MS Law at Cabot Square, London and the Customer Liaison Team in Glasgow, both departments give an impression that my Dispute is being handled separately by each department. Meaning that they are not in touch with each other, now that thought would be a stupid assumption. IMHO MS are very well aware of what they are doing, in handling me and my Claim, but how I proceed, is another matter. Factually, I do not see why I should re-send my PO & Request, because my initial Request was Crystal Clear, in that I requested a signed copy of the original credit agreement between MS & myself. My request was received by them 4 July 2006 and the response that I received from MS was dated 7 September (deemed served on the 9 September) but MS have failed to supply me with a signed copy of my original credit agreement. I am given to understand that after 12 days plus one calender month has passed this creditor has commited a Criminal Act by not complying with my request. Surely, the employees of MS can read? These people obviously are literate! How come they fail to comprehend my Notice pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998? and...my Request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974? It would be foolish of me to accept that MS have ignored/misunderstood both of my requests mistakenly. Or is it just sheer coincidence, that MS think that they can ride roughshod over the consumer. Angry Cat

[livelylad]

i think its the latter they think that they can ride roughshod over everything and everyone. Well i think that soon enough all these customer relations (ha) departments will get a rocket up there ass. eventually the people that continue the claim will outstrip those who give up.

[un1boy]

It's intreresting to see how these companies are dealing with these requests though - I mean, how people actually sent these requests before finding out about them on this site? I bet they don't know what to do with them/how to action them. That to me is part of the reason people's charges claims and CCA requests have been handled so stupidly by some companies.

[Bev77]

The default starts after 12 working days. If the default continues for one month they commit the offence. So the month counts from the day of default (12th working day, not elapsed day) and is a calendar month, not 30 days.

 

I dont get this 12 days then a further 30 days. Surely if it continues for one month, then that includes the original 12 days. The default occurs on the 13th day, then if it continues for one month then the offence is committed.

 

For example, you send it on the 1st(mon), you assume they receive it on the 3rd(weds), so 12 working days would be the 19th(fri), then if the default continues for one month (until the 19th of the next month), that's when the offence occurs.

 

Otherwise surely it would say if the default continues for a further month?

 

Have I got it all wrong? Or am I just confused?

[elsinore]

Many of us have been confused by this at one time or another, Bev. I nearly fell foul of it a few weeks ago, but was put right by Martin3030. He had complained to his local Trading Standards and was told that it is 12 days plus one month. You can see the text of their reply in my AK thread (link in signature). As TS will be one of the bodies that you will, in the event, be complaining to, it would seem sensible to wait for that period to elapse.

 

But the wording of the Act is ambiguous!!

 

Elsinore