Are you being harassed on the telephone by your bank or by debt collectors?

[BankFodder]

Are you being harassed on the telephone by your bank or by debt collectors?

 

Stop being a victim

 

Turn the tables

 

Record your calls

 

It’s legal – and you don’t have to warn the other side.

Use the recordings for your own use such as evidence for the police or a private court case.

 

Assist the media in the preparation of public-interest exposures of bad practice.

 

 

 

We are hearing more and more about harassment by telephone. It is a relentless and upsetting experience.

 

 

Only recently the Halifax Bank was involved in a court case and it seems that they paid an out of court settlement in order to bring the matter to an end.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | Woman settles Halifax stress case

 

 

But there are indications that this Halifax approach to debt collection is continuing and that a similar style is used by many other organisations.

 

 

You may be a victim of this but you don’t need to be.

• Do you feel under siege from repeated telephone calls received throughout the day and evening at over the weekends?
  
• Are you frightened to answer your own phone?
  
• Are you refusing to answer any calls where there is no recognisable caller-ID?
  
• Are you receiving calls from numbers which only give automated messages when you call back.
  
• Are you being harangued and upset by unpleasant collection agency staff?
  
• Are you being required to give confidential identification details to anonymous callers?

Don’t put up with it any more.

 

 

Keep a log and start recording your calls.

 

 

If you use Skype as your telephone system then you can use a number of telephone recording programs.

 

We think that CallBurner is very good and we have managed to obtain a big 20% promotional discount for CAG Users.

 

 

We will soon be announcing a recorder which will record calls from your ordinary landline telephone as well.

 

More details of CallBurner and the CAG landline recorder coming soon.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=119&a=96

 

 

 

.

[remus]

We will soon be announcing a recorder which will record calls from your ordinary landline telephone as well.

Can't come soon enough, but as with everything it has to be within our budget.

Any chance of hiring?

[babybear39]

Any chance of a freebie lol

 

I'm skint...

 

BB

[renegotiation]

I have a gem. Get someone else to answer that isn't authorised to speak on your account to talk to the DCA and tell them they want to pay in full. Their beady little eyes will light up and their greed will take over. After they break the Data Protection Act and tell you the figure you can report them and that's serious right? Any flaws in this plan?

[Docman]

When I answer the call, I correctly identify myself by name. When the debt agency then says 'I want to take you through 'security' and then ask me silly personal questions like my house number, I refuse. This stumps them because their procedures are wrong and the youngsters on the call don't know what to do.

The debt agencies bleat on about Data Protection Act requirements. Sure the DPA does require themto check its me when I ring them. They should check against information that they should already hold, such as my date of birth etc. But when they start the call, the tables are turned. I should ask them to verify themselves!

If you think I'm wrong, just think about it for a minute. You receive a call from someone who you have never dealt with before. They ask you for your date of birth or some other such piece of personal data. You willingly answer. How do you know they have the information to check against in the first place? On the other hand, if the call was from an identity fraudster, you have just started to give away some personal information, free of charge. No wonder ID fraud is growing rapidly.

DON'T GIVE OUT PERSONAL INFORMATION TO ANYONE YOU DON'T KNOW. IF A DEBT AGENCY CALL YOU, IDENTIFY YOURSELF CORRECTLY BUT DON'T SAY ANY MORE UNTIL THEY TALK TO YOU PROPERLY. So far, all the agencies I have dealt with have gone away empty-handed.

Docman

[BankFodder]

We will soon be announcing a recorder which will record calls from your ordinary landline telephone as well.

Can't come soon enough, but as with everything it has to be within our budget.

Any chance of hiring?

I am working on the whole project at the moment.

No chance of hiring, I'm afraid. We just don't have the resources to handle the logistics and support.

 

It will all depend on import duties at the end but I am confident of sub-£40 for a recorder which will monitor your phone calls and save the sound file to disk.

It should allow you to make notes of your call and to save them with the soundfile

 

We have been testing some recorders for a while and they seem pretty good but the software is a disaster.

We are having software written for the recorder right at the moment.

It should function as a pop-up and as long as your recorder is connected to the phone line and also to the computer - and as long as the computer is on, you shouldn't need to think about doing anything else as it will just record and save each file automatically.

 

In a way it will function as a hardware equivalent of CallBurner.

 

We'll see.

 

I can tell you that for the kind of hardware recorder and supporting software which we are hoping to supply the going rate seems to be at least £130-150 on the internet

[renegotiation]

I'm seriously thinking about trying my idea out which is outlined in my previous post on this thread. I plan to answer the phone next time one of them rings and say that my dad is out. I will then ask them if it is about any money he owes, as I will happily pay it off. I will ask them for the figure and who the debt is with. If they supply me with that information and I record it how much trouble can I get them into? I will do anything to stick it up them. Obviously I will not be paying them a bean. I just want to know it is worth me doing and that the plan is sound. I am convinced some of them would fall for it. *Any comments appreciated please.*

 

P.S. If anyone is confused about why I don't follow my own advice of a number change (as advocated in a previous thread) it's because my dad wouldn't go for it! Mistake in my eyes, but it's his phone line...

[make them aktiv runners]

I'm seriously thinking about trying my idea out which is outlined in my previous post on this thread. I plan to answer the phone next time one of them rings and say that my dad is out. I will then ask them if it is about any money he owes, as I will happily pay it off. I will ask them for the figure and who the debt is with. If they supply me with that information and I record it how much trouble can I get them into? I will do anything to stick it up them. Obviously I will not be paying them a bean. I just want to know it is worth me doing and that the plan is sound. I am convinced some of them would fall for it. *Any comments appreciated please.*

 

P.S. If anyone is confused about why I don't follow my own advice of a number change (as advocated in a previous thread) it's because my dad wouldn't go for it! Mistake in my eyes, but it's his phone line...

 

They are good at passing on information to strangers as I found out, pity I did not record it. So yes I agree your theory stands a good chance of working. Breach of data protection with recorded proof is a serious offence and I would guess the DCA's will satisfy the ICO initially by sacking the member of staff to protect their own "reputation", however the more it happens then it will become obvious that it was not a one-off mistake.

 

I did find one thing on the data protection register that confused me, they all appear to be registered stating contacts with "debtors and their families". Personally I think this is nonsense as data is personal not for a family member to be informed by a 3rd party. My only guess as to the true meaning on the register is they can discuss with any party divulged on the CCA (although that is unfair contract terms as they often insist you name a partner when signing the contract). Anyone know what the register is actually saying?

[make them aktiv runners]

When I answer the call, I correctly identify myself by name. When the debt agency then says 'I want to take you through 'security' and then ask me silly personal questions like my house number, I refuse. This stumps them because their procedures are wrong and the youngsters on the call don't know what to do.

 

The debt agencies bleat on about Data Protection Act requirements. Sure the Data Protection Act does require themto check its me when I ring them. They should check against information that they should already hold, such as my date of birth etc. But when they start the call, the tables are turned. I should ask them to verify themselves!

 

If you think I'm wrong, just think about it for a minute. You receive a call from someone who you have never dealt with before. They ask you for your date of birth or some other such piece of personal data. You willingly answer. How do you know they have the information to check against in the first place? On the other hand, if the call was from an identity fraudster, you have just started to give away some personal information, free of charge. No wonder ID fraud is growing rapidly.

 

DON'T GIVE OUT PERSONAL INFORMATION TO ANYONE YOU DON'T KNOW. IF A DEBT AGENCY CALL YOU, IDENTIFY YOURSELF CORRECTLY BUT DON'T SAY ANY MORE UNTIL THEY TALK TO YOU PROPERLY. So far, all the agencies I have dealt with have gone away empty-handed.

 

Docman

 

 

I agree that security questions should not be answered. It is for them to tell you the security answers of your choice when they call you.

[BankFodder]

I did find one thing on the data protection register that confused me, they all appear to be registered stating contacts with "debtors and their families". Personally I think this is nonsense as data is personal not for a family member to be informed by a 3rd party. My only guess as to the true meaning on the register is they can discuss with any party divulged on the CCA (although that is unfair contract terms as they often insist you name a partner when signing the contract). Anyone know what the register is actually saying?

 

This concerns me very much.

 

I think that this would be worth bringing up with the IC for clarification.

 

Even though this seems to be the terms of the registration, DCAs would still have to show that they had obtained consent from the data subject - whether by contract or otherwise to reveal personal data to family members.

 

Of course even if those consents have not been obtained, it is still very possible that DCAs may still harass and give information to family members or other third parties and then try to rely on their IC registration if evidence were ever produced to show what they were doing.

 

Of course, evidence is nearly never obtained and this is why recording and logging calls is so important.

I expect that it could put an end to telephone harassment within weeks.

[ODC]

Another new ploy they have adopted is if you bar their numbers is to send an SMS to your house phone from the number you have barred. If you hear the message from the lovely woman at BT you have recieved a message from 0123456789 and you know its a DCA that you have refused to deal with then press option 3 and delete the call without listening to it simple:D

[BankFodder]

If you record your calls then stop avoiding the DCAs.

Start taking your calls.

 

Every call, every insult or abusive comment, every call at unsocial hours is a further nail in their coffin,

[rory32]

Subscribing. Thanks for the pm Aktiv.

[Steeley]

Some DCAs' are using automated calling without a 'real person'. Connaughts are one such agency that call and it's an automated message asking you to call them ...

 

I had someone call yesterday, a real person, that was extremely miffed that I hung up the phone. She called back and gave me a mouthful of abuse asking why I felt the need to hang up and what gave me the right to! My answer was that I pay for the phoneline and can terminate a call or choose to not answer it at my descretion. She mumbled something about it being illegal and deliberate avoidance for not supplying information relating to a debtor.

 

I applied a different tactic and left her to rant whilst I carried on vaccuuming the hallway. If they are paying for the call then they are welcome to shout as loud as they like on the telephone but nothing in law says that I have to listen to it.

 

It's your phone so it's your call in who you talk to and when. Log the calls but don't let them annoy you or make you feel that you have to give information. Turn the situation around and ask for their name, address, shoe size and if they would like a new kitchen or new UPVC windows fitted.

 

Don't be bullied and insist they put anything they have to say in writing.

 

Steeley

[ODC]

Some DCAs' are using automated calling without a 'real person'. Connaughts are one such agency that call and it's an automated message asking you to call them ...

 

I had someone call yesterday, a real person, that was extremely miffed that I hung up the phone. She called back and gave me a mouthful of abuse asking why I felt the need to hang up and what gave me the right to! My answer was that I pay for the phoneline and can terminate a call or choose to not answer it at my descretion. Quite Right She mumbled something about it being illegal and deliberate avoidance for not supplying information relating to a debtor. I wonder what law that comes under. Certainly not one that I know or have heard of

 

I applied a different tactic and left her to rant whilst I carried on vaccuuming the hallway. If they are paying for the call then they are welcome to shout as loud as they like on the telephone but nothing in law says that I have to listen to it.

 

It's your phone so it's your call in who you talk to and when. Log the calls but don't let them annoy you or make you feel that you have to give information. Turn the situation around and ask for their name, address, shoe size and if they would like a new kitchen or new UPVC windows fitted.

 

Don't be bullied and insist they put anything they have to say in writing.

 

Steeley

Just hum over the phone that drives them mental

[Chris_w]

I've just read everything here, but i can't see what happens next. When you've recorded everything and logged everything, what do you do with the information?

[remus]

chris w, not information, evidence:) of how Banks/dca's are acting beyond the law, and when you complain to TS OFT etc or when you take said companies to court for harassment you have proof of how despicable they really are.

There is no need to ring people constantly making peoples life a living hell:mad:

And maybe cc to the media;)

[renegotiation]

Hi Chris. You send them the telephone harassment letter which should also include the request to ONLY write to you. I really would send it special delivery and keep a copy of the letter and special delivery receipt and get a printout from the Royal Mail website with electronic proof of delivery. Then, after they keep harassing you by telephone (highly likely) you report them to TS, OFT and the media too. Every time they phone keep referring to the letter you have sent and spell it out to them again and again. Keep telling them you WILL report them and take them to court. Most importantly, I think, is to take them to court and sue for damages. I think if you do everything I have said and go to court armed with all the evidence you really could get substantial compensation. The beauty of it is they probably won't listen to you. Let them dig their own graves. I think anyone doing this has to give it a long think and not wilt after they start the process. After they have been sufficiently rogered they WILL get the message. I am planning my campaign now.

[finsnan]

I am still having major problems with HSBC despite using the CAG template threatening Court Action and quoting the relevant Acts. I just don't answer the phone to them any more. They ring from an 0800 number so I have bought a caller ID phone, and just don't answer, but I am still getting calls from them at any time from 7.00 a.m. - 11.00 p.m. 7 days a week!

 

I am not with BT any more, as I got a cheaper deal from Bulldog. I rang them up to ask if I could bar the number from calling me, but they were a bit non-plussed and not too helpful. I wold reallly like some proof from them as to when this number has called, but I'm not sure Bulldog records are up to this. Has anyone else had a similar problem. I have started to log calls, can't record anything as I can't answer the phone to them any more, I am so fed up with this.

 

Thanks for reading - any advice will be very gratefully received!!

[ODC]

They are not allowed to phone you before 8-00am or after 9-00pm so if its them you have them by the bol***ks I suggest you ask for their official complaints procedure. Just ring the 0800 number fro a public call box to make sure it is them.

[finsnan]

Thanks for the information, I know it's them, I've got their number, and they do display it when they call me. They rang at ten past eleven the other night!!

 

Should I look to get this into Court? I don't know whether harassment is a civil or a criminal action even?

 

Thanks!!

[make them aktiv runners]

Unfortunately you do need proof of the calls hence the recording equipment for calls taken. If you seriously do not want to answer the phone and as you have caller display, evidence could be obtained by filming the caller display as it rings with either a camcorder or mobile camera phone (both will have date & time displayed), keep a manual log too.

 

I assume they use apredictive dialler which will keep trying until the phone is answered, does your phone company have an automatic answer message after so many rings? if not an answer-machine might cut down on the number of calls during each day.

[Steeley]

I am still having major problems with HSBC despite using the CAG template threatening Court Action and quoting the relevant Acts. I just don't answer the phone to them any more. They ring from an 0800 number so I have bought a caller ID phone, and just don't answer, but I am still getting calls from them at any time from 7.00 a.m. - 11.00 p.m. 7 days a week!

 

I am not with BT any more, as I got a cheaper deal from Bulldog. I rang them up to ask if I could bar the number from calling me, but they were a bit non-plussed and not too helpful. I wold reallly like some proof from them as to when this number has called, but I'm not sure Bulldog records are up to this. Has anyone else had a similar problem. I have started to log calls, can't record anything as I can't answer the phone to them any more, I am so fed up with this.

 

Thanks for reading - any advice will be very gratefully received!!

 

Answer your phone and ask them not to call again. Either way it's breach of debt collection guidelines and harrassment under the Telecommunications Act if they continue. Log the calls for future reference as you may be causing them a loss but you are not the loser they take you for.

 

Steeley .

[finsnan]

Hi - the last time I spoke to them, I asked them not to call again, but as the guy on the other end barely spoke English, and I have a broad Brummie accent, I'm not at all sure he understood what I said. This is why I gave up on talking on the phone, but I have written and copied all of the letters explicitly saying that I am not prepared to talk to them on the phone any more and that I will only answer written correspondence in future. I do have an answer machine that clicks in after a few minutes, not sure if I could actually get a photo of the phone first though as it's relatively quick and there isn't the option with Bulldog as there is with BT to amend the number of rings. It's been about 4 weeks now since I sent the big batches of copied correspondence to all of the addresses I have for HSBC but apart from a couple of days break they have continued to call. Should I be able to get phone records out of Bulldog, or is this something only the police can do?

Thanks for your help guys.

[Chris_w]

Thanks Renegotiation it all makes sense now. were do I get a recording device?