Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)

[Redwoodsteve]

Hi, all. I received my CEL letter in August last year and have been bombarded with letters ever since, from both CEL & Newlyn. Has anyone ever been taken to court yet? I've not seen or read a thread where anyone has, but I am curious.

[TideTurner]

The head of the Association of Chief Police Officers has just announced live on TV that the ready availability of DVLA data to parking companies and clampers was a "mistake".

Edited June 24, 2008 by TideTurner

[AtchiP]

Hi

 

This is my first ever forray into the world of internet forums so bear with me......... it has taken a few minutes to get registerd and understand the links.

 

Like tictactoe's mother I was "caught" in the Colton Retail park parking [problem] having spent over 3 hours there (all in Sainsburys actually!)Upon receiving the notice I had already worked out that I would respond with many of the comments regarding inappropriate use of CCTV number plate recognition, invoices that look like parking tickets etc. but can see that this has all been done before and to no avail. I will almost certainly follow previous advice, refuse to pay and refer debt collectors back to CEL saying that the invoice is in dispute! I may actually spend the £25 offered by "Law Answers" on their site to get them off my back as I know I will continue to be frustrated if continually harassed by further letters! Has anyone any experience of their "service"?

 

Next - how to damage these pirates............... is there perhaps a way that through these forums we could find out where these guys operate and simply boycott the premesis (Or make sure that they do not catch people by warning them)cash shortfalls will quickly cause them to fold! I for one will not use McDonalds in Gatwick looking at the number of postings and will certainly NEVER visit Colton retail park again. As another thought, how about us contacting the retailers involved. I have just written to J Sainsburys saying how disgusted I am that a company if their standing is either using such enforcement companies or accepting their use on sites where they are operating stores. I am sure that a company that large must have some sway to get CEL slung off! As these retailers are encouraging customers to stay longer (bigger stores, cafe's etc)then this is a real problem. If we highlight this and vote with our feet then I am sure that CEL can be sent "bust" by their own clients. Retailers are very conscious of their reputation and I have threatened never to visit Sainsburys again until I receive a satifactory response. Immagine hundreds of such letters to messers Sainsbury's McDonalds etc!

 

good luck everyone with telling CEL where to get off.........

[lamma]

no need to spend the 25 quid. I know the text they will give you.

[Barnsley Boy]

AtchiP,

 

I understand your frustration, I too came on to these forums in righteous indignation having received one of these bogus tickets.

 

Like much that happens in this country, the whole private parking thing is wrong headed.

 

Retailers abdicate their responsibility to manage their own car parks to these private companies. The management is meant to be self financing, the PPC getting their income from "fines". Sometimes the retailers get a kick back from the PPC from each "fine" paid.

 

If the car park "problems" were actually sorted, there would be no overstays, no non customer parking, no income for the PPC. The PPCs only survive by ensuring that the problems are not resolved, ensuring a residual level of "fines" income for them. In other words, they are paid a premium for mis-managing car parks.

 

By the way, lamma is right about the £25. I'm embarressed to say that I used the service for my first ticket. I was working away from home at the time and was worried that dodgy debt collectors might call round at the house. I did not want to put my wife through the hassle. Now that I know a bit more, I realise that I was taking these [problematic] far too seriously. Personal visits really are very very rare and are easily dealt with.

 

In its defence, the service does work, but then so do the other methods which have the advantage of being £25 cheaper.

[Al27]

The problem is that people are treated like idiots. People know how to use a car park. Staying 4 hours instead of 2 is hardly the end of the world. Companies complain that 'customers suffer' which is codswallop. It's all an exercise in making money.

 

People respond a lot more positively to a sign explaining WHY they shouldn't park in a disabled spot. It's inconsiderate and makes life hard for those less well off. "Park here and you will get a £40 fine" is using a sledgehammer to miss a nut.

[ConfusedLondon]

Hi. Another first time participant.

Civil Enforcement Ltd, carpark in Chingford and staying 10 minutes over the 2 hour no charge period - need I say anymore! This happened in February, I got a letter from CEL at the end of March and I replied using the standard letter of 'please don't contact the registered owner etc'. Things went quiet. Now I have received 2 letters from Newlyn dated 05/06/08 and 16/06/08 to the effect that the matter has been passed to them and they require payment now of £165 to avoid going to the County Court and incurring more charges. Should I be worried that I ahve received 2 letters within 2 weeks? I have been reassured by the posts on here so far and understand the implications of contract law, I just don't appreciate the frequency of the letters from Newlyn. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Al27]

Don't worry. 2 letters in 2 weeks show they're getting desperate. The fact you responded in the first place would have put you on the hooked fish list.

 

If you respond now again then their eyes will light up and know their letters are getting to someone. They don't want to deal with the invisible man - they're just banging their head against a wall and will have to give up.

 

They won't take you to court.

[lamma]

newlyn - laugh.

forget about them the stickies are correct. the PPC game works by fear and misrepresentation once you know that it is game over for the PPC.

[WebFerret]

Now I have received 2 letters from Newlyn dated 05/06/08 and 16/06/08 to the effect that the matter has been passed to them and they require payment now of £165 to avoid going to the County Court and incurring more charges. Should I be worried that I ahve received 2 letters within 2 weeks?

 

 

No, I wouldn't be worried - standard procedure in my experience.

 

I too have received the same letters (last one sent in April) - I have never replied (didn't want to acknowlege that I exist - the 'hooked fish' syndrome! - I simply ignored and have been waiting for the court summonds - lol

 

I think they send two letters in quick succession in the hope that this will harrass sufficiently to intimidate into paying.

 

As things have gone quiet for me now for more that 3 months, I guess they've given up on me and moved onto others!?

 

Will post back if I get a summonds - lol

[TideTurner]

10 Worst parking tickets

 

Money Central - Times Online - WBLG: The Ten Craziest Parking Tickets of All Time

 

Also this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/150020-no-more-clamping-towing.html#post1588288

Edited June 29, 2008 by TideTurner

[AtchiP]

On balance guys what is your opinion?

 

1. completely ignore all the letters threats from Newlyn etc. or

2. Reply using the templetse on the stickies

 

Have not had the time to bother yet but have written to J Sainsbury (head office) saying that I am disgusted and will not darken their door again etc............... I will post any response.

 

How abpout CEL, do I bother to respond?

[Al27]

Completely ignore. They aren't going to stop harrassing you just because you send them a template letter - quite the reverse. If you respond they know their letters are reaching someone or is rattled enough to reply and therefore could possibly become rattled enough to pay up.

If you don't respond they'll give up quicker.

[WebFerret]

Completely ignore. They aren't going to stop harrassing you just because you send them a template letter - quite the reverse. If you respond they know their letters are reaching someone or is rattled enough to reply and therefore could possibly become rattled enough to pay up.

If you don't respond they'll give up quicker.

 

 

I second that - ignoring has worked for me - lol

[rafael]

I was also noticed to park over 2 hours in the co-op - and I shop there evry week - no longer!

 

Got the contravention notice for 40 quid now or 80 quid in a month - denied in writing that i personally parked there.

 

Received a letter back falsly stating that as keeper i am responsible for the fine. Ignored it - Several letters threatening court action - total is now about 200 pounds.

 

Have not heard from them in 4 months and no court action.

 

Just stand your ground. You'll be ok - and never pay the blood sucking leeches.

[Al27]

Yep, there is no 'appeals process'. You will always get a letter back saying you still have to pay, usually with false and fraudulent declarations of owner liablity.

[lamma]

In my view the only purpose of the 'appeals process' is to reel in victims.

[Al27]

Correct. When these people get an appeal their shifty little eyes light up as they know there is a fish at the end of the hook and they have rattled somebody.

 

If you ignore them they get very miffed they're not getting a response as that means no money for them.

[weblawyer]

I have sent this letter:-

 

Dear Sirs

 

RE: xxxxxxxx PCN NO. xxxxxxxxx Parking Charge Issue Date: xx/06/2008

 

 

As you have stated in your letter that our client is responsible for the payment of the Parking Charge and we have confirmed to you that our client denies liability to you in any way , our client demands that you institute legal proceedings within 14 days . Our client will submit a defence to your claim and hold you liable for costs incurred as a consequence of and arising as a result of your letter.

 

 

 

 

In accordance with the civil procedure rules, please send us evidence of:

• 1. The establishment of any contract between our client and yourselves ,
  
• 2. The identity of the driver ( including any photographic evidence of parking by our client in the alleged space ) and
  
• 3. Your entitlement to collect any money whatsoever.
  

Neither our client nor us will deal with you or your agents if you fail to issue proceedings.

 

 

In the absence of legal proceedings our client will regard any further contact from you or your agents as harassment.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited August 19, 2008 by weblawyer
Additional information

[herbie31]

Help ....getting my self in a tiswas

 

I have now sent two letters to CEL following the tempates - the last letter sent two days ago requesting evidence that I as RK was driving, stating that the contract is between the driver and the landowner and stateing that I welcome the oportunity to see them in court as they will not be able to provide the evidence that I was driving.

(there is no way that they can prove I was driving as I wasn't - I have ME and can not drive very far, let alone to the carpark they are refering)

 

However the thing I am getting my self in a tiswas about is that I was told by the Police that it is a Civil matter and therefore can not be brought to County Court ....is this right?? (as I've stated this in the letter)

 

Also my semi retired Mum works for a letting agency and comes across loads of people who have CCJ's and apparently don't know that they have them until reference/credit check is done .... is that possibe?

 

I'm worried that I have got it wrong about the County Court thing and that I will get a CCJ without me knowing about it ..... please help this is playing ahvock with my health

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Help ....getting my self in a tiswas

 

I have now sent two letters to CEL following the tempates - the last letter sent two days ago requesting evidence that I as RK was driving, stating that the contract is between the driver and the landowner and stateing that I welcome the oportunity to see them in court as they will not be able to provide the evidence that I was driving.

(there is no way that they can prove I was driving as I wasn't - I have ME and can not drive very far, let alone to the carpark they are refering)

 

However the thing I am getting my self in a tiswas about is that I was told by the Police that it is a Civil matter and therefore can not be brought to County Court ....is this right?? (as I've stated this in the letter)

 

If the police told you this they are mistaken.

If what the police told you is that civil matters cannot come before Crown Courts or Magistrates Courts (few exceptions) then they are correct.

County Courts is exactly where most civil cases come.

 

Also my semi retired Mum works for a letting agency and comes across loads of people who have CCJ's and apparently don't know that they have them until reference/credit check is done .... is that possibe?

 

Given that you say your Mum works for a letting agency, I suspect that the people you are talking about are people who change addresses frequently. Papers may have been delivered to an old address and the individual never heard about it. That is how this sort of thing can arise.

 

I'm worried that I have got it wrong about the County Court thing and that I will get a CCJ without me knowing about it ..... please help this is playing ahvock with my health

 

Don't let it get to you. You won't get a CCJ without knowing about it if you keep up to date with correspondence and stuff. I'm afraid that your reaction is what these people rely on. Just take comfort in the support from here!

[herbie31]

Thanks Bernie .... good to know I have the support from here My OH is being as much help and support in this as a chocolate tea pot

 

This is the wording of the latest letter that I have sent them, I know that I have got it wrong about the County Court thing but I am now getting worried that my letter will strengthen their resolve (especialy the paragraph about the County Court) ...... I will feel much happier if I know what likely response I am to get from them, then I can be prepared.

 

Could you cast your expert eye over the wording, I know its like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted but as I said I like to prepare myself.

 

I note that you appear to claim that I, as registered keeper, am legally responsible for this alleged debt which I refute.

In order to substantiate this claim please provide me with copies of the appropriate citations of case and/or statute law.

 

I understand that this alleged debt is for a breach of a parking contract. For your clarification according to contract law a contract is between the two parties entering the contract and no third parties can be held accountable. In this case the contract is between the land owner and the driver of the vehicle NOT the registered keeper of the vehicle which in contract law stands as the third party.

If you insist on pursuing this matter with me please provide evidence that I, as the registered keeper was driving the vehicle on the day in question.

Incidentally in the eyes of the law this is a civil matter as no offence has been committed. Civil matters cannot be held in a County Court, however if you have found some legislation that permits this I would be interested to hear of it, and so no doubt would my solicitor.

I will welcome the opportunity to defend your allegation in court and am confident of success. Of course you will be required to produce the evidence that I have requested and you will have failed to provide. You will also have to answer to the court why you failed to do so.

As per my previous letter please do not correspond with me any further on this matter except to confirm that you will be not taking the matter any further with me as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Sorry to need so much reassurance on this but its really getting to me

 

Thanks in anticipation of your help

[pin1onu]

Herbie,

 

Your letter looks really good. I'd send it recorded delivery so they can't claim they haven't received it.

 

They'll probably spurt a load of their bumf at you which you can safely ignore. Don't throw it away file it somewhere safe. It will provide evidence if you want to persue a harassment complaint or in the very unlikely event they take you to court.

 

Just to reiterate ignore anything short of court papers, which are extremely unlikely to appear, and get on with your life.

[Barnsley Boy]

Herbie,

 

As you've acknowledged, the county court thing is not right. However, ignoring this minor matter, the gist of your letter is absolutely fine - put up or shut up - stop bothering me or take me to court.

 

Don't worry - they won't. As Pin1onu has said, no need to respond to anything further but keep any further letters you receive.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Barnsley Boy

[herbie31]

Thanks everyone ..... hopefully I shall sleep better tonight and find my resolve again!

 

So basically I now wait for their response, ignore and file ..... is that right??